Westchester County Special Operations

[fdny41 11]

Im Just throwing out a thought here, What do u think if a couple of Volunteer Fd's in Westchester had Special Operation capabilities?

For Example

Lets say Purchase has some type of foam unit, that there members train on and can respond county wide.

Lets say we have some type of Scuba water rescue team in Mamaroneck that could respond to county wide emergencies.

Lets say we have some type of Decon unit in Scarsdale that could also respond to county wide incidents and that members would be trained on.

Lets say we have a collapse/Trench Rescue team in harrison that members would be trained on and COuld respond to county wide emergencies.

There are a ton more i could list any input would be great good or bad.

[JM15 386]

The county DES has special operations teams already... Would this be in addition?

[fdny41 11]

yes it would be in addition to the countys special operations units.

I feel if Volunteer Companies Ran some of the special operations units that they would be called on more.

[JM15 386]

Why do you think they would be called more than already established and highly trained teams?

[fdny41 11]

I think partly because they would be spread over the county as opposed to one central location and volunteers would be more comfortable calling resources which they might be more familiar with and that they run.

[x4093k 654]

yes it would be in addition to the countys special operations units.

I feel if Volunteer Companies Ran some of the special operations units that they would be called on more.

What makes you think this? They aren't "better trained" then anyone else, besides, the career members who have a ton of training would probably know a little more than the volunteers who know little, especially in that position...Dont ya think?

[ex-commish 490]

"I feel if Volunteer Companies Ran some of the special operations units that they would be called on more. "

Brother...not to sound like a killjoy because your idea is noble but today many volunteer departments are having a tough enough time handling calls within let alone being called more to man a special ops unit which besides Westchester County I believe there are some units around the county. Another issue would be training. You would need to be trained to certain levels ( hazmat, high/low angle rescue, trench and building collapse...etc) which requires alot of hours both initial and on-going. Again a noble idea which in better times may work but in today's climate it's getting tougher to handle the routine stuff.

[Dinosaur 844]

yes it would be in addition to the countys special operations units.

I feel if Volunteer Companies Ran some of the special operations units that they would be called on more.

Some volunteer companies have a hard time running day to day operations and now you want them to take on special team responsibilities also? That's ridiculous.

Who is handling special ops kinds of jobs without calling in specialty resources? The problem isn't getting them called on more, the problem (thankfully) is that we don't have dozens of these calls in Westchester County. Adding to the number of special teams only makes it that much harder to maintain any level of competence since training is the only way to stay sharp in the absence of real calls.

There are special decon units throughout the county and I don't think they've been used once in the 7-8 years that they've been out there. There is a foam resource in White Plains or Fairview that hasn't been called more than a couple of times in the years that its been out there. Yorktown has a SCUBA/water rescue team already.

The County coordinates the haz-mat and technical rescue teams out of DES but unless I've been misinformed, the teams are made up of volunteers from across the county.

Sounds like the 1980's and everyone wanting haz-mat teams again. There are only a few haz-mat teams in the region for a reason. The call volume simply doesn't support having them everywhere.

I don't seen any justification for this other than feeding some egos and watering down the capabilities of the existing teams.

[firedude 985]

One of the largest problems that westchesr's fire service has is the duplicate of services, this would only make the problem worse. This is quite the oposite of Consolidation.

Lets say Purchase has some type of foam unit, that there members train on and can respond county wide.

White Plains has a foam trailer and correct me if I'm wrong, yonkers has a foam unit.

Lets say we have some type of Scuba water rescue team in Mamaroneck that could respond to county wide emergencies.

Both Somers and Yorktown have dive/scuba teams. Somers went mutual aid to mamaroneck last summer. Does Mt. Pleasant PD still have a dive team?

Lets say we have some type of Decon unit in Scarsdale that could also respond to county wide incidents and that members would be trained on.

County Hazmat, Montrose VA and numerous other resources throughout the county already provide this serivce. Not to mention Empress SOD

Lets say we have a collapse/Trench Rescue team in harrison that members would be trained on and COuld respond to county wide emergencies.

Yonkers has a fully equiped Colapse Rig and USAR trailer. Plus, the county already has a highly skilled tech rescue team that has a decent response time.

Edited May 8, 2012 by firedude

[fdny41 11]

I really think Westchester county needs a water rescue team for the sound shore, calling on Yorktown or somers is ridiculous. I can think of at least 6 water related deaths in the past 6 years just in mamaroneck alone.

[x4093k 654]

I really think Westchester county needs a water rescue team for the sound shore, calling on Yorktown or somers is ridiculous. I can think of at least 6 water related deaths in the past 6 years just in mamaroneck alone.

Good idea, but it will never happen.

There are enough scuba teams in the area, the county really doesn't need one. Yes, the response time may be a little on the down side, but thats another story. Somers responded to Mamaroneck with a full scuba team last summer( they dont have too many scuba members at all) and got to the scene within 20 minutes, and thats response time also. And by then, many departments SCUBA were already there.

Do we really need to get into discussion about the county? By the time they have assembled and responded, what, it'd save 5-6 minutes? Really not worth it, on my opinion.

Edited May 8, 2012 by x4093k

[2231* 20]

Good idea, but it will never happen.

There are enough scuba teams in the area, the county really doesn't need one. Yes, the response time may be a little on the down side, but thats another story. Somers responded to Mamaroneck with a full scuba team last summer( they dont have too many scuba members at all) and got to the scene within 20 minutes, and thats response time also. And by then, many departments SCUBA were already there.

Do we really need to get into discussion about the county? By the time they have assembled and responded, what, it'd save 5-6 minutes? Really not worth it, on my opinion.

Good point. I agree with you, it's truly not worth it, theres just too many other departments that can cover it.

[firedude 985]

Somers responded to Mamaroneck with a full scuba team last summer( they dont have too many scuba members at all) and got to the scene within 20 minutes, and thats response time also. And by then, many departments SCUBA were already there.

They did an excelent job in Mamaroneck too.

I really think Westchester county needs a water rescue team for the sound shore, calling on Yorktown or somers is ridiculous.

Who should host this water rescue team?

Edited May 8, 2012 by firedude

[x4093k 654]

Kyle, that reminds me, they also had a full ambulance crew also.

Can a Somers member chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but did they brought the Marine to that scene? It is usually towed behind Rescue 38( In the first picture)

[Tanker 10eng 140]

The county's Rescue Team has a division of water rescue tech's and are willing to go anywhere... One of the nice features of the County team is that it is made up of many different members from departments around Westchester ( fire and EMS ). So like last year in Ossining, 4 minutes after the team was dispatched 2 members of the team were on the scene and assisted Ossining in starting the rescue...

Yes it would be great to have certain departments organized special teams, but the cost, manpower needs and time requirements adds on members... In my eyes the County's Team is a step in the right direction.

[firedude 985]

Kyle, that reminds me, they also had a full ambulance crew also.

Can a Somers member chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but did they brought the Marine to that scene? It is usually towed behind Rescue 38( In the first picture)

Yes they did. They got there within reasonable time and set up very fast. I did not see the marine unit there.

[fdny41 11]

I just think the water rescue teams should be placed in better locations, with all the flooding and bodies of water in the sound shore i think it would be very beneficial to have one in lower Westchester.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I may be wrong but gators are placed around the county at different FD's...this is similar to what you are saying.

[peterose313 345]

One of the largest problems that westchesr's fire service has is the duplicate of services, this would only make the problem worse. This is quite the oposite of Consolidation.

White Plains has a foam trailer and correct me if I'm wrong, yonkers has a foam unit.

Both Somers and Yorktown have dive/scuba teams. Somers went mutual aid to mamaroneck last summer. Does Mt. Pleasant PD still have a dive team?

County Hazmat, Montrose VA and numerous other resources throughout the county already provide this serivce. Not to mention Empress SOD

Yonkers has a fully equiped Colapse Rig and USAR trailer. Plus, the county already has a highly skilled tech rescue team that has a decent response time.

Ossining has a spill response trailer along with Engine 100 being foam capable too. Greenburgh has a technical rescue unit in addition to everything.

[JJB531 652]

Mount Pleasant PD still has an active dive team, Croton PD still technically has a dive team (not sure of their manpower/capabilities), State Police has a dive team, and DEP Police has a dive team.

[LTFIREPRG 154]

The problem with operating special operations units is four fold, the initial start up cost of equipment & training, cost of maintaining and replacing equipment, cost of continuing education and training and the extensive commitment of members of the unit.

Let’s start with any unit’s most valuable resource, personnel. There is a tremendous amount of time that will be required to be devoted to learning and becoming proficient in the skills needed to perform as a member of the special operations unit. Then there is the commitment of maintaining and advancing those skills. All training should meet the minimum requirements as out lined in the appropriate NFPA Professional Qualifications Standard. Keep in mind this is in addition to your regular firefighting and EMS skills and training.

The cost of equipment is extremely expensive to purchase and maintain. Make no mistake; if you are going to start a special operations unit, then you must be committed to purchasing ALL the required equipment needed to carry out a safe and successful operation.

Based on the cost and commitment to establish and maintain a special operations team, it is not practical or in some cases achievable. While it may be beneficial to establish specialized units in locations that warrant them, such as a Sound Shore Water Rescue Unit, this would be better accomplished by a multi jurisdictional unit funded by and made up of members of several departments, all sharing equally in the cost, administration and staffing of the unit. Westchester County Special Operations Team is open to all members, both career and volunteer. This is a good fit for anyone who has the desire and commitment to serve on a special operations team.

[DaRock98 76]

I may be wrong but gators are placed around the county at different FD's...this is similar to what you are saying.

I believe the county gators are housed at DES. Individual departments may have them but the county operated ones are at DES only.

[HFD23 37]

I just think the water rescue teams should be placed in better locations, with all the flooding and bodies of water in the sound shore i think it would be very beneficial to have one in lower Westchester.

That may be true but currently response times are not an issue to many of the agencies in the county. Now before everyone jumps in saying that is ridiculous, how many departments in Westchester have an automatic aid agreement where a special ops resource is automatically dispatched by 60 control with the tones from the host department. Not many if any. Many departments start out their units and chiefs and wait to get on scene or in their vehicles to confirm the incident rather then start out help. The dispatch of the special unit with the tones of the host department can cut valuable minutes off the response time that would be much longer if units wait to get on scene and confirm an incident. Not to single out any agency but the example of the sound shore area was used so we will stick with it request Yorktown, Somers, Irvington dive at dispatch, or look just north to Stanford and Greenwhich Ct. for water rescue resources and start them out immediately, this will help get the unit on scene faster and also justifies the need for that type of unit in that area.

Also the biggest issue is drop the career volunteer stuff and call the closest trained resource or heck call multiple resources its better to overwhelm an incident rather then nickel and dime and run short of trained personnel. The departments and members of Westchester County need to learn to function with what we have. The training and equipping new special units costs a lot of time and money, which in this economy is very hard to come by. We need to utilize the under used resources that we already have trained and equipped in this county before we worry about adding additional resources.

[JM15 386]

The county's Rescue Team has a division of water rescue tech's and are willing to go anywhere... One of the nice features of the County team is that it is made up of many different members from departments around Westchester ( fire and EMS ). So like last year in Ossining, 4 minutes after the team was dispatched 2 members of the team were on the scene and assisted Ossining in starting the rescue...

Yes it would be great to have certain departments organized special teams, but the cost, manpower needs and time requirements adds on members... In my eyes the County's Team is a step in the right direction.

You hit some excellent points with this post... Hazmat and Technical rescue are very training intensive disciplines. What is good about the county teams is that they draw from the manpower "pools" around the county and take the people with the drive and desire to excel.

[Dinosaur 844]

I just think the water rescue teams should be placed in better locations, with all the flooding and bodies of water in the sound shore i think it would be very beneficial to have one in lower Westchester.

The water rescue teams are located where their sponsors are based. For example the County Technical Rescue Team is located in Valhalla. That's pretty centrally located.

Yorktown, Somers, Mahopac Falls all have water rescue teams because those departments have committed to the expense, liability and obligations of sponsoring a specialty team. Do you think Yorktown should base their team in Mamaroneck just because Mamaroneck is on the Sound?

Not everyone can be all things to all people. Leave the specialties to the departments willing and able to make the commitment to them. Not just doing them because its "cool" or they want the new patch.

[Spartan052 43]

I really think Westchester county needs a water rescue team for the sound shore, calling on Yorktown or somers is ridiculous. I can think of at least 6 water related deaths in the past 6 years just in mamaroneck alone.

the have the departments on the soud shore cover thamselves for voulenteer fd's manpower is an issue so what you are preposing would not work to its full potential

[drgripsthrowawaytowel 72]

The water rescue teams are located where their sponsors are based. For example the County Technical Rescue Team is located in Valhalla. That's pretty centrally located.

Yorktown, Somers, Mahopac Falls all have water rescue teams because those departments have committed to the expense, liability and obligations of sponsoring a specialty team. Do you think Yorktown should base their team in Mamaroneck just because Mamaroneck is on the Sound?

Not everyone can be all things to all people. Leave the specialties to the departments willing and able to make the commitment to them. Not just doing them because its "cool" or they want the new patch.

I'd be willing to be that Yorktown has a water rescue team because 1/3 - 1/2 their district is composed of water that is recreationally used, legally or not. From the Croton Resivior to the numerous lakes, ponds and rivers that flow through it.

I'd also be willing to bet that going mutual aid takes less precedence then protecting the lives of the people in their own district first. Sure, they're happy to offer their services to other departments, but more then likely the liability of their own district is what caused them to form a team.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Not everyone can be all things to all people. Leave the specialties to the departments willing and able to make the commitment to them. Not just doing them because its "cool" or they want the new patch.

Agreed. In CT we've regionalized all HAZMAT response. 5 Regional Teams primarily made up of career firefighters, but volunteers that actually want to put in the time and effort to regularly train and not just wear a cool jobshirt can work their way on. The New Haven Area team (Region 2) also includes New Haven PD, Yale PD and FBI to make up the WMD/EOD Task Force within the team for those types of incidents. State Dept. of Energy and Environmental Protection (DEEP) also has HAZMAT capability with their Emergency Response Unit, and State Police ESU has the capability for WMD/EOD type incidents as well. Even with the small amount of teams we have, none of them are particularly busy, EOD and DEEP notwithstanding.

If you want to be on a Special Operations team, look up how much training is required for you to even be useful, much less proficient in the skills and situations you'd be faced with. Honestly weigh out if you can make that kind of commitment before you try to go about getting involved. I'll tell you from experience its a HUGE time commitment, particularly since more than 95% of our team is made up of career personnel and they train during the week on day shift. If you can do it, great, I'm sure they'd be happy to have you. But expect to pull your weight and don't expect to be treated with kid gloves because you're a volunteer. You're either in or you're out.

I'm reminded of a thread a few years back where either Chief Fitz or Chief Flynn from Yonkers commented, saying something to the effect of how people love to have a shirt that says "SPECIAL OPERATIONS" even if they aren't capable of doing the job. Some of you may remember this infamous "The Emporer Has No Clothes" thread. Your department can hardly be faulted for NOT having its own Special Ops team during the 1 time out of the year you might need one. But, if you organize and fund that team and advertise the hell out of it and can't get the rig on the road with enough competent responders, you can be damned sure that you'll be faulted, and for good reason.

[Dinosaur 844]

I'd be willing to be that Yorktown has a water rescue team because 1/3 - 1/2 their district is composed of water that is recreationally used, legally or not. From the Croton Resivior to the numerous lakes, ponds and rivers that flow through it.

I'd also be willing to bet that going mutual aid takes less precedence then protecting the lives of the people in their own district first. Sure, they're happy to offer their services to other departments, but more then likely the liability of their own district is what caused them to form a team.

There are other departments with large bodies of water and no dive team. Yorktown made a commitment to something because it made sense (given the water in the Town) and their ability to perform the mission. This is to their credit.

Not every can or should have a dive team, or haz-mat team, or technical rescue team. We can't be experts in everything.

[Engine 80 16]

What makes you think this? They aren't "better trained" then anyone else, besides, the career members who have a ton of training would probably know a little more than the volunteers who know little, especially in that position...Dont ya think?

wow,