NYPD ESU Cops Save Family Trapped By Fire

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Oh my god, if I wasn't working off an Ancient Roman version of MS word right now I would absolutely turn that into an official flow chart/decision matrix. We could even send some to the NYPD and NYSP to put in their cars! Courtesy of EMTBravo members.

That sir, is arguably one of the best sarcastic answers to a thread I have seen on this website in a LONG time. I'd commend you for it, but the Fire Department has sole responsibility for sarcasm and humor operations on this forum. Stop trying to do our jobs...

That's an interesting morphing of this conversation into a bigger, unspoken truth about this website. Why is it that EMTBravo has had such in-depth investigation, observation, reporting of fire department related issues?

That is a reflection of the demographic makeup of the membership. I dare say volunteer firefighters are the majority of members here, followed by EMS, other type/enthusiast/photographer, then career firefighters and lastly cops. No science there, just a shot in the wind based on observing the site itself.

Firefighting and tactics are fair game for ripe conversation. There are no security issues related to the public release of information about tactics, what was or was not done, etc.

EMS has a major following. After all the place is named after Seth's old ride when he was doing EMS in Westchester County.

It must be frustrating at times for our Brothers and Sisters in LE, because most of what they know is classified, and cannot be discussed here. The only issues that make it to public discussion are those infamous cases which the media believes is their responsibility to make fodder of discussion.

I think most of the media thinks they are doing something patriotic by continually criticizing LE, and focusing in on the cases of the day that are controversial.

There has been much discussion from the left, that law enforcement in America is becoming "Israeli-ized." The majority of Americans have accepted the tighter restrictions on our personal liberties and freedoms as just the cost of living a free life in an open democracy where there are security threats to everybody's safety. I understand and accept the "Patriot Act" but sometimes wonder why the TSA has to act politically correct by body searching disabled little children.

TSA represents in ordinary people's minds; authority. The same authority as the police officer. The understanding of a Federal level of authority even more powerful on peoples lives than they realize.

Not to wonder too far though, but members here from LE figuratively have their hands tied when it comes to discussion here. I guess that's why fire discussion became so prevalent. We from fire do love to talk shop, as LE does. They just have to do it in private mostly, while we blab away here.....

[SageVigiles 1,194]

That's an interesting morphing of this conversation into a bigger, unspoken truth about this website. Why is it that EMTBravo has had such in-depth investigation, observation, reporting of fire department related issues?

That is a reflection of the demographic makeup of the membership. I dare say volunteer firefighters are the majority of members here, followed by EMS, other type/enthusiast/photographer, then career firefighters and lastly cops. No science there, just a shot in the wind based on observing the site itself.

Firefighting and tactics are fair game for ripe conversation. There are no security issues related to the public release of information about tactics, what was or was not done, etc.

EMS has a major following. After all the place is named after Seth's old ride when he was doing EMS in Westchester County.

It must be frustrating at times for our Brothers and Sisters in LE, because most of what they know is classified, and cannot be discussed here. The only issues that make it to public discussion are those infamous cases which the media believes is their responsibility to make fodder of discussion.

I think most of the media thinks they are doing something patriotic by continually criticizing LE, and focusing in on the cases of the day that are controversial.

There has been much discussion from the left, that law enforcement in America is becoming "Israeli-ized." The majority of Americans have accepted the tighter restrictions on our personal liberties and freedoms as just the cost of living a free life in an open democracy where there are security threats to everybody's safety. I understand and accept the "Patriot Act" but sometimes wonder why the TSA has to act politically correct by body searching disabled little children.

TSA represents in ordinary people's minds; authority. The same authority as the police officer. The understanding of a Federal level of authority even more powerful on peoples lives than they realize.

Not to wonder too far though, but members here from LE figuratively have their hands tied when it comes to discussion here. I guess that's why fire discussion became so prevalent. We from fire do love to talk shop, as LE does. They just have to do it in private mostly, while we blab away here.....

GREAT post. I agree wholeheartedly. Cops can't defend themselves on this site the way that they SHOULD be able to. Which is why its understandable they take such offense to some of these comments.

[INIT915 1,119]

Oh my god, if I wasn't working off an Ancient Roman version of MS word right now I would absolutely turn that into an official flow chart/decision matrix. We could even send some to the NYPD and NYSP to put in their cars! Courtesy of EMTBravo members.

Sage:

That would be helpful if you could throw something together. Now, from experience, here's a few hints as you move forward. First, laminate it. You know we're just liable to spill coffee (or in my case Redbull) on it. Second, make sure you use small words (or even better, graphics), we're not that bright as a group, so you don't want to trick us. Third, and lastly, make sure you include an asterisk which dictates that the matrix MUST be adhered to, despite changes in the conditions or situations. Again, we, as a group, are not really able to adapt to a changing situation, and we will really need to stay focused on a simple flow chart!

From the LE community, many thanks for setting us straight!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Sage:

That would be helpful if you could throw something together. Now, from experience, here's a few hints as you move forward. First, laminate it. You know we're just liable to spill coffee (or in my case Redbull) on it. Second, make sure you use small words (or even better, graphics), we're not that bright as a group, so you don't want to trick us. Third, and lastly, make sure you include an asterisk which dictates that the matrix MUST be adhered to, despite changes in the conditions or situations. Again, we, as a group, are not really able to adapt to a changing situation, and we will really need to stay focused on a simple flow chart!

From the LE community, many thanks for setting us straight!

Well played sir, well played... I almost spit my coffee out at the screen reading this.

[10512 214]

I remember in the late '70s or early '80s, an FDNY oldtimer (he was retired then) telling me that the reason that NYPD ESU was doing rescues was because years before, he referred to the '30s or '40s, the FDNY was mainly focused on firefighting and the non-fire rescues were mainly handled by NYPD. This set-up continued for years.

I was told that prior to the '80s, the rescue companies were the only ones with rescue equipment. Considering the fire load back then, the 5 rescues were often busy with fires, the Squads did not have the equipment back then, so the NYPD got some of the non-fire work by default.

Is this true? I do not know, this was a story I was told over 30 years ago, and I may have a few points wrong, and the source has since passed away.

Edited May 8, 2012 by 10512

[JJB531 652]

Sounds like a reasonable and possibly accurate depiction of the history of rescue services in NYC. I have heard this same description from numerous sources, but the accuracy of the information may always be in question though. Interesting to hear it straight from an old time member of the department.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Bad Box wrote,

Holy cow! This is the most long winded post I've ever seen. BTW, you state that ESU was formed in 1925 and that they trained FDNY's Rescue 1. Rescue 1 was formed in 1915 and did not get trained by some folks who ten years later developed an interest in job done the FDNY's Rescue Co's.

This is akin to realzing how badly you're losing the game that you take your ball, call it quits and run home pouting.

The most informative, articulate and concise post on here and you call it "long winded". If you are who you say you are, truly a disappointment.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Bull McCaffrey

[everybodygoes 331]

ESU can do every damn car accident in the city, not one fire house would give a rats behind. But do it correctly. And I was involved in an incident with ESU where a member was injured quite severely, guess who was treating him, ME! If Ray Kelly wasn't pulling the strings things would be like every other City in the USA, police doing criminal actions, FD doing rescues and fires.

Edited May 10, 2012 by helicopper
Personally directed snipe at another member removed.

[JJB531 652]

ESU can do every damn car accident in the city, not one fire house would give a rats behind. But do it correctly. And I was involved in an incident with ESU where a member was injured quite severely, guess who was treating him, ME! If Ray Kelly wasn't pulling the strings things would be like every other City in the USA, police doing criminal actions, FD doing rescues and fires.

I can't understand why you are getting so defensive and taking this so personal. The idea of this was to be an intelligent discussion, not a foot stomping tirade. I come to work, do my job, and go home. Thank you for taking care of the ESU injured member, I think anyone, PD or FD would provide these care for eachother in that same situation. We may wear different patches, but we're all human.

Edited May 10, 2012 by helicopper
Quote post edited to remove personal snipe

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

ESU can do every damn car accident in the city, not one fire house would give a rats behind. But do it correctly. And I was involved in an incident with ESU where a member was injured quite severely, guess who was treating him, ME! If Ray Kelly wasn't pulling the strings things would be like every other City in the USA, police doing criminal actions, FD doing rescues and fires.

What's your point? Matt Long Ladder 43, if you're on the job, you should know. If not, Google his name and educate yourself. It goes both ways.

Edited May 10, 2012 by helicopper
Quote post edited to remove personal snipe

[SageVigiles 1,194]

If Ray Kelly wasn't pulling the strings things would be like every other City in the USA, police doing criminal actions, FD doing rescues and fires.

Right, because Ray Kelly invented ESU and told them to start working rescue jobs.

[JJB531 652]

Convoluted? Seemed pretty concise and in-line to myself and a couple other members here. Wikipedia... Hardly... It's from taking the time to educate myself so when discussions like this take place I can at least articulate my stance with some level of insight and maturity instead of sounding like someone who's not getting his way and resorting to personal attacks.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Im not threatening you, just posting the fact that anyone who goes out to 'teach' i.e. make money always comes up with some convoluted response that has wikipedia written all over it. I could care less what you do, you like to do that I like to be with supermodels, to each his own!

You don't even work in NYC what do you know? Oh from your friends on the internet right?

You don't have to work in NYC to know be able to judge time. Ray Kelly was born in 1941 according to any biographical information out there. NYPD started doing rescues somewhere around 1925 by most accounts. Unless something has changed, 1925 came before 1941, right? So ESU, or some NYPD predecessor, have been doing rescues since before Ray Kelly was an idea, much less a Police Officer or the Commissioner.

I'm not arguing whether the fire department did them first or not, nor am I saying I'm Ray Kelly's biggest fan, but to make him out to be a Red Herring is inaccurate.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Im not threatening you, just posting the fact that anyone who goes out to 'teach' i.e. make money

You're not serious are you? Do you honestly think money is the motivating factor behind any professional who desires to share his knowledge and experience? Since you know everybody, why don't you go down and ask Bob Morris that and see what kind of reaction you get.

It is people with attitudes like yours who would turn this site into another worthless waste of time rant. Everybodygoes....just go. lol

[streetdoc 14]

ESU can do every damn car accident in the city, not one fire house would give a rats behind. But do it correctly. And I was involved in an incident with ESU where a member was injured quite severely, guess who was treating him, ME! If Ray Kelly wasn't pulling the strings things would be like every other City in the USA, police doing criminal actions, FD doing rescues and fires. You would be better off not even posting cause at some point its going to back fire on your little side job money maker.

What is wrong with you, I hope you don't think you represent every FDNY member on this board, if you do it's a sad day for FDNY (I am NOT FDNY)

You are an embarrassment to every FDNY member and every fire fighter EVERYBODYGOES it’s time you followed them and went yourself

Edited May 9, 2012 by streetdoc

[x129K 1,393]

CAN WE PLEASE MERGE THIS THREAD WITH THE "TROOPER THREAD"?????????

It's just too much work to keep up with TWO pissing matches at the same time.....

[efdcapt115 1,511]

CAN WE PLEASE MERGE THIS THREAD WITH THE "TROOPER THREAD"?????????

It's just too much work to keep up with TWO pissing matches at the same time.....

Wouldn't that be crossing streams? lmao

Edit: spelling

Edited May 9, 2012 by efdcapt115

[thebreeze 194]

JJB:

I have carefully analyzed all the posts on this thread and the related one and it would now seem to me that ESU's choice is obvious:

1) Take action and get criticized on it on forums such as this one

2) Take no action, (get a picture of the ESU guys standing around in the NY Post), and get criticized in the media and by the public at large

So really, the choice is obvious. Just decide who you want to criticize your actions, and that will help guide you in you decision making matrix.

What you don't seem to be understanding is the general opinion of the media towards the PD and the FD in NYC. If the ESU officers had stood around doing nothing, the story wouldn't have focused on their inaction. Instead it would have been asking where was the fire department?! Why were they so slow? Just like when the ESU cops dropped the car on that poor motorcyclist, even though it was on video, half of the headlines still mentioned the fire department as the agency involved. To top it all off everyone here still acts like this was the fire of the century, a few pots of waters worth of fire isn't newsworthy, its just a slow news day and the press looking to heap more accolades on the agency headed by the man who looks to be New York City's next mayor.

[nycmedic 65]

You are jealpus that the esu cops got the media attention and not the fdny. If the fdny made the grabs they would have been in the papers and put in for a citation. The cops do get media attention for inaction. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/brooklyn-cop-suspended-after-failing-to-perform-cpr/

[INIT915 1,119]

What you don't seem to be understanding is the general opinion of the media towards the PD and the FD in NYC. If the ESU officers had stood around doing nothing, the story wouldn't have focused on their inaction. Instead it would have been asking where was the fire department?! Why were they so slow? Just like when the ESU cops dropped the car on that poor motorcyclist, even though it was on video, half of the headlines still mentioned the fire department as the agency involved. To top it all off everyone here still acts like this was the fire of the century, a few pots of waters worth of fire isn't newsworthy, its just a slow news day and the press looking to heap more accolades on the agency headed by the man who looks to be New York City's next mayor.

Okay, so we can put you down for option 1 then?

[thebreeze 194]

You are jealpus that the esu cops got the media attention and not the fdny. If the fdny made the grabs they would have been in the papers and put in for a citation. The cops do get media attention for inaction. http://newyork.cbslo...to-perform-cpr/

Jealous?? Of what?? A few cops letting some people out of their apartment and throwing pots of water at a stove fire?? I don't think so. It's not a grab by the way when the people are walking out themselves, and no sane officer in the FDNY or I think anywhere else would put a unit in for a citation for this incident for fear of being the laughing stock of the whole job after the Board of Merit got a hold of it. Lets see what happens with these ESU officers though, I am sure they will receive some sort of honor.

Okay, so we can put you down for option 1 then?

I don't need either of your options because I don't believe either one of them is correct or alludes to the point I am trying to confer.

I'm not criticizing ESU for their actions at all, I am glad they were able to help this family before this turned into a serious emergency, they saw something that needed to be done and did it, kudos to them for not standing around. What I am trying to point out is the media taking a story that would get zero press coverage if it involved the FDNY, and turning into a sensational rescue story for the NYPD. It wouldn't be deemed newsworthy if it was just the FDNY, and rightly so because its not. Food on the stoves with people in the apartment are a dime a dozen.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Jealous?? Of what?? A few cops letting some people out of their apartment and throwing pots of water at a stove fire?? I don't think so. It's not a grab by the way when the people are walking out themselves, and no sane officer in the FDNY or I think anywhere else would put a unit in for a citation for this incident for fear of being the laughing stock of the whole job after the Board of Merit got a hold of it. Lets see what happens with these ESU officers though, I am sure they will receive some sort of honor.

Do these count as grabs/rescues? I would imagine so given the brothers posing for the cameras with their saves. But humans, trapped in a smoke filled apartment getting saved by the cops=no good.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/injured_baby_hawk_saved_in_queens_HEEHcI9jPIzK9ZpZQbOztL

http://animaltourism.com/news/2010/04/04/fdny-saves-three-baby-squirrels

http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/fdny-firemen-on-lunch-break-save-brooklyn-kitten

Haters gonna hate.

[streetdoc 14]

Okay, so we can put you down for option 1 then?

one vote for option 1

[thebreeze 194]

Do these count as grabs/rescues? I would imagine so given the brothers posing for the cameras with their saves. But humans, trapped in a smoke filled apartment getting saved by the cops=no good.

http://www.nypost.co...jPIzK9ZpZQbOztL

http://animaltourism...-baby-squirrels

http://www.catster.c...brooklyn-kitten

Haters gonna hate.

No, none of those count as saves. They are stupid feel good fluff pieces written by journalists who don't notice that there are things that actually matter going on in this world. I don't think that any of that stuff is newsworthy either, so that doesn't really change my argument. Furthermore I never anywhere said that what the cops did was no good, did I? You really aren't getting the anti-media angle I am playing here at all. Haters will hate, I am just trying to shed a little light on something. If you can't take the time to actually read and figure out what my posts are saying, then don't worry about it, go read more feel good fluff pieces.