Troopers Honored for Fighting Fire

[conman 40]

Ive worked with DPW guys who said if they were working near by and we needed help they would gladly help us out. That said straight to my face " WE will run the trucks for you because we HAVE your old trucks, WE know how to run the pumps" and if I was the OIC and they showed up and asked, Id say go for it. Congrats to those troopers for what they did.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.

Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

[conman 40]

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.

Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

I agree. I don't see why people can't accept the fact that these brothers were asked to help and agreed without hesitation. I applaud their efforts. Rural companies need all we can get from who ever is around.

Edited May 8, 2012 by conman

[firemoose827 324]

Angelo, when you said "just the response you were looking for" or words to that effect about another post, the moose I think innocently missed the sarcasm bro.

I know him personally efdcapt115 and was joking around with him, hence the "LOL" i placed at the end of the reply, but I guess he doesnt know what "LOL" means...

You can joke with some but not with others sadly.

Laugh Out Loud.............It helps you feel better.

[streetdoc 14]

I think its just a simple matter of everyone helping to achieve the same goal...helping someone in need, whats wrong with that? I believe your example is a bit far fetched and over dramatic, an electrician performing open heart surgery is no where near accurate enough to explain two state troopers answering a call of help from a local volunteer fire chief whom they probably know from working together in the field anyway and were all too happy to help. These guys held a hand line, outside the building, away from the heat and smoke, and allowed other trained firefighters to do the more important work in the hot zone such as overhaul, salvage, and final extinguishment.

I think we are all over reacting a little here...

Not for nothing, but in your previous post you were supporting the help offered you by the local PD when short handed, and now you are against it? Which side of the fence are you on here? LOL

I agree with these comments, we are all here for the same reasons, helping others in their time of need. If I was working a large fire and operating exterior lines for hours and was asked by a local cop or state trooper if I needed help holding the line I would gratefully accept their help and guide them as to what they could do to help.

On the flip side, If I saw a PD Officer getting attacked by a group of people, I would grab the nearest hard object and start swinging, or do WHATEVER I could to help them. I did just that one evening when working my FT EMS gig years ago. Our station is within minutes of the local SUNY campus, one evening we were jsut sitting down for dinner when the scanner came alive with a screaming SUNY cop saying he was being chased by a mob of college students through the quad and was calling for all available help from village PD and State Troopers. My partner and I jumped into our rig and started for the campus, lights and sirens blaring in hopes that the sirens would alert the students and make them run. When we arrived on scene, the SUNY cop was being held down and maced with his own mace by a group of 5 students. They saw us and ran away, giving us time to pull up next to the cop and pull him into our ambulance and drove away to safety before the kids realized it was only an EMS rig and tried to come and finish what they started.

We flushed his eyes and took him to the local ER for evaluation. What would have happened to this guy if we didnt show up? What if we just simply said "To hell with that, our pizza will get cold."???? Does any of the law enforcement gang here think we did wrong and wish to tell us to do our jobs and let them do theirs or did we do the right thing??

We work together, we have to, no one else will help.

Amen

[firemoose827 324]

Ive worked with DPW guys who said if they were working near by and we needed help they would gladly help us out. That said straight to my face " WE will run the trucks for you because we HAVE your old trucks, WE know how to run the pumps" and if I was the OIC and they showed up and asked, Id say go for it. Congrats to those troopers for what they did.

I agree, and the other thing is a lot of the DPW workers are volunteer firefighters, maybe not for the town/village they work in but for others, and are just trying to offer help if needed. The difference being they are "Offering" help and not freelancing, or forcing themselves on you.

When I worked for the DPW for my previous Village I worked with another firefighter from our neighboring town and we would ride to some of the calls in my district together, and he would offer his help every time to my chief. Sometimes the chief would accept and have him run a pump or act as accountability officer, other times he would gratefully decline. I realy dont think its a big deal if people (trained people with experience) want to offer their help to other fire departments, EMS agencies or whatever. If more people were like that our population of "A" Holes would be smaller and maybe we would have less violence, racism, and hate????

[robert benz 344]

ok I will try one more time, the pics show 4 cops 3 on a 2 1/2 " and 1 supervising. It also looks like no one is in danger, and the operation is defensive.

1. When the pd was dispatched was it for a particular pd function per their sop's or did they just buff the call?

2. if it was to perform pd duties who is now doing those?

3. If they were not needed to do their job go back in service, or did more pd have to show up to fulfill those duties while they were on the line.

4. I keep hearing about helping the pd when / if they are being attacked of course no question, again no one is in danger here

5. A little math defensive operation with the 2.5" line. tft flowing approx 250 gals per minute plus 4 anybodys (pd, fd, dpw etc) or place a master stream into operation with the same 2.5" line and flow a min of 500 gals with a 3/8" tip and leave one member there to supervise that operation and you just freed up 3 people.

I am not bashing cops I am wondering why so many of the members on here feel it is ok to put anybody at anytime on a fire scene just because you need help. Thats what radio's are for, push the button and call for more help.

I keep reading about rural depts and lack of manpower so basically someone went thru a lot of training to become a "firefighter" and now that there is an incident anybody with 2 legs and 2 arms is put to work. Something doesnt seem right in that situation.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

ok I will try one more time, the pics show 4 cops 3 on a 2 1/2 " and 1 supervising. It also looks like no one is in danger, and the operation is defensive.

1. When the pd was dispatched was it for a particular pd function per their sop's or did they just buff the call?

2. if it was to perform pd duties who is now doing those?

3. If they were not needed to do their job go back in service, or did more pd have to show up to fulfill those duties while they were on the line.

4. I keep hearing about helping the pd when / if they are being attacked of course no question, again no one is in danger here

5. A little math defensive operation with the 2.5" line. tft flowing approx 250 gals per minute plus 4 anybodys (pd, fd, dpw etc) or place a master stream into operation with the same 2.5" line and flow a min of 500 gals with a 3/8" tip and leave one member there to supervise that operation and you just freed up 3 people.

I am not bashing cops I am wondering why so many of the members on here feel it is ok to put anybody at anytime on a fire scene just because you need help. Thats what radio's are for, push the button and call for more help.

I keep reading about rural depts and lack of manpower so basically someone went thru a lot of training to become a "firefighter" and now that there is an incident anybody with 2 legs and 2 arms is put to work. Something doesnt seem right in that situation.

Chief your questions really should be directed at two people; the fire commander on scene and the commanding officer of the police. I'll not make leaps in judgement, but aren't some job functions, such as securing a perimeter, once it is done it's basically done, and personnel will have down time between tasks? They won't necessarily pick up and go back in service, because their job function is ongoing, just with periods of time in between tasks.

I think I understand your perspective. In New Rochelle things like this don't really happen. In an ideal world they wouldn't happen anywhere. The state of manpower availability or lack thereof in rural areas is well known to all of us. It certainly isn't the fault of the people still making the effort to help their communities.

Was there an error in judgement by the IC? Once again, in an ideal world, yes. This was obviously not an ideal situation out there.

Did you ever see pictures of the LA Riots where LAFD Task Forces dropped hose and hydrants for civilians then continued down the block to the other dozen buildings burning? Once again, the conditions on the ground, when far from ideal, sometimes produce efforts being made by others to assist in controlling the problem.

[robert benz 344]

Chief your questions really should be directed at two people; the fire commander on scene and the commanding officer of the police. I'll not make leaps in judgement, but aren't some job functions, such as securing a perimeter, once it is done it's basically done, and personnel will have down time between tasks? They won't necessarily pick up and go back in service, because their job function is ongoing, just with periods of time in between tasks.

I think I understand your perspective. In New Rochelle things like this don't really happen. In an ideal world they wouldn't happen anywhere. The state of manpower availability or lack thereof in rural areas is well known to all of us. It certainly isn't the fault of the people still making the effort to help their communities.

Was there an error in judgement by the IC? Once again, in an ideal world, yes. This was obviously not an ideal situation out there.

Did you ever see pictures of the LA Riots where LAFD Task Forces dropped hose and hydrants for civilians then continued down the block to the other dozen buildings burning? Once again, the conditions on the ground, when far from ideal, sometimes produce efforts being made by others to assist in controlling the problem.

I agree that extreme situations will dictate what happens this was a house fire lets not forget isn't that what the dept is in the business of in the first place I guess if ic's want to allow cops and dpw, and whatever good luck oh yeah what about lability?

[Just a guy 493]

I haven't been on emtbravo in a few days so I sign in and see this topic and I figure I should get another cup of coffee before I read my daily dose of anti cop stupidity... and I was not let down.....

I have said before many times that there is a huge anti cop sentiment on here and it once again reared it's ugly head in this thread and in the thread about the ESU guys getting people of an apartment.

I believe it is incumbent on all of us to do WHATEVER we have to do to get the job done and to keep the public safe. It seems like some on here have forgotten that keeping the public safe is our primary function.

When I happen to be at a scene, even a medical call, I help however I can. If someone from empress says " here hold this" and they hand me whatever, what am I going to say no ??? Of course not I'm going to provide whatever help they need to get their job done. There have been times when a PD member has had to drive an empress bus because the medics were working the patient.. do you think anyone at empress got their drawers in a bunch and complained that a cop was driving the bus ?? Of course not..... this isn't a perfect world, jobs don't always go by the playbook and we all have to be ready for that.

If there is a working structure fire and the YFD is there and i'm walking up to the scene and a firefighter is trying to connect to a hydrant and it's stuck, if he says " hey can you give me a hand here" Of course i'm going to help him without hesitation.. because thats what we do... we help without hesitation.

I could go on and on providing more what if's and giving actualy instances where cops have been asked by other services to help but those of us who are rational know that these troopers rose to the occasion and supported the FD when they needed it.

Great Job Brothers.

[Just a guy 493]

I agree that extreme situations will dictate what happens this was a house fire lets not forget isn't that what the dept is in the business of in the first place I guess if ic's want to allow cops and dpw, and whatever good luck oh yeah what about lability?

A cop's entire job is liability.. if we worried about liability then we couldn't be cops

[AJU 39]

I have said before many times that there is a huge anti cop sentiment on here and it once again reared it's ugly head in this thread and in the thread about the ESU guys getting people of an apartment.

I thought so at first too, but I really don't think that's it. I think some people have their identity wrapped up in being something or other and whenever someone encroaches on this (by doing something that should fall under their job description) it becomes a personal insult because it's somehow taking away from the ego-stroking value of their identity. It's not a cop thing, it's not a firefighter thing, not an EMT thing or a medic thing. It's a human thing. I always try and check myself when reading stuff like this to ensure I don't take it personally or use it as a basis for my own prejudice.

Great Job Brothers.

Absolutely. These guys went above and beyond in their efforts to serve the community and deserve the recognition.

[INIT915 1,119]

Great Job Brothers.

And you know what crime cop, some of these (not all) are the same posters who pull the "we're on the same team" card when it comes time for some "courtesy" that they feel entitled too out in the field.

Their outrage is sporadic and magically disappears when convenient.

[Dinosaur 844]

I agree that extreme situations will dictate what happens this was a house fire lets not forget isn't that what the dept is in the business of in the first place I guess if ic's want to allow cops and dpw, and whatever good luck oh yeah what about lability?

The IC used FF from another department. They happened to be working for the State Police at the time. So what?

This was in rural Columbia County. They don't have the luxury that we have of being able to push the button and getting more help so we shouldn't criticize them for using the help that's available on scene.

Time to move on to the next topic, nothing to see here.

[robert benz 344]

The IC used FF from another department. They happened to be working for the State Police at the time. So what?

This was in rural Columbia County. They don't have the luxury that we have of being able to push the button and getting more help so we shouldn't criticize them for using the help that's available on scene.

Time to move on to the next topic, nothing to see here.

columbia county doesnt have mutual aid available? didnt know that. now i know why there is nothing left to see here.

[Dinosaur 844]

columbia county doesnt have mutual aid available? didnt know that. now i know why there is nothing left to see here.

Of course they have mutual aid. From another small, understaffed department some distance away. An IC did what an IC is supposed to do. He managed an incident with the resources he had available. If these guys were in DPW or Highway Department uniforms this discussion wouldn't have lasted this long (unless they used blue lights to get there).

Why are you being so nitpicky?

There's nothing left to see in this topic. It's all the same BS rhetoric.

[Haggerty 1029 16]

The best part is, it happened, all the whining in the world wont reverse that, and you know what it probably wont stop the FD from asking for help again. Good job brothers. I sure as hell wouldnt b**** about cops trying to lend a hand, and id lend a hand to them in a heart beat.

[Haggerty 1029 16]

The best part is, it happened, all the whining in the world wont reverse that, and you know what it probably wont stop the FD from asking for help again. Good job brothers. I sure as hell wouldnt b**** about cops trying to lend a hand, and id lend a hand to them in a heart beat.

[LTFIREPRG 154]

The bottom line is you can do all the Monday morning quarterbacking you want, but unless you were the I/C at this incident or were there and witnessed some event that grossly jeopardized firefighter or the State Police Officers safety, you have no right to call his judgment to utilize the officers into question.

Did anyone take into consideration it was Christmas Eve and that probably contributed to the manpower shortage? It’s easy to say pick up the radio and call for help, how far is the help and how long is it going to take to get them there. What was the I/C faced with at the time? It is quite obvious the Ancram Chief and department were very much appreciative of the assistance rendered by the State Police in the mitigation of this incident.

Instead of bickering about doing each others jobs, how about being pro active and working together to enhance the protection of life and property of the “tax payers” we serve. I can tell you when police and fire want to, they can work very well together to accomplish this. Greenburgh Police and Fairview Fire have been working together for years with EMS and Technical Rescue providing the best emergency services available.

The Ancram Fire Chief should be commended for having the guts to employ the assistance on the State Police, and the State Police should be commended for assisting.

[Guest truck12345]

I think NYS Police should send the chief of the FD a bill for tying up4 ST Troopers at his fire scene.

[nycemt728 49]

I think NYS Police should send the chief of the FD a bill for tying up4 ST Troopers at his fire scene.

Using 4 troopers at the scene? Obviously they were all there already either by dispatch or their own accord if they could man a line on the spur of the moment, so either way you look at it the tax dollars were not wasted.

What's next, a bill from Sanitation every time NYPD asks them to block of streets with the salters during a parade, marathon or security detail? Or how about a bill every times FDNY goes w/ the NYPD as a an air recon chief? Excessive anything is never good, but once again the bottom like is public and responder safety first and foremost.

[Dinosaur 844]

I think NYS Police should send the chief of the FD a bill for tying up4 ST Troopers at his fire scene.

Wow. Maybe you should make sure that your department is perfect and doesn't ever need assistance from anyone because I'm sure we'd all like to reciprocate your goodwill and community spirit.

[Atv300 69]

Who is doing traffic when the cops need to roll to assist some where else? It's one hand washing the other I still say good job by all, people over think sometimes and forget we're there to get the same job done.

[firedude 985]

Who is doing traffic when the cops need to roll to assist some where else?

Fire Police

[Atv300 69]

I was trying to make a statement that the Fire Department in some peoples eyes should back bill the cops if we get stuck doing traffic for a none Firematic call. In reality I agree everyone should help each other out.

[rvwscan 20]

The Troopers were the first to arrive. Yes, the police often respond to emergencies in the rural parts of the state. This being a Friday afternoon, just before Christmas in a sparsely populated town with a well hidden from road/view structure the fire had a lot of headway before it was discovered. The person who discovered the fire actually drove to the volunteer firehouse to report it, found no one there and used the emergency phone to notify 911. The fire department was finally called, and almost immediately called 3 more departments under mutual aid for assistance. There is not a career fire department within sight of southern Columbia County. Troopers arrived initially and updated 911. The fire department did eventually show up with an engine, a tanker and a rescue each with a driver. With the limited manpower and some more enroute from neighboring departments with extended ETA's, the IC asked the Troopers for assistance to try to keep the fire from extending to the other portion of the house. The Troopers, 3/4 who are volunteer firefighters with chief officer experience and training obliged with permission from their supervisor. When enough fire personnel arrived, the Troopers were relieved and re-assumed their law enforcement roles.

Maybe not the best situation, but it happened, happened safely and they did do some good. Let's face it, this fire was the biggest thing going on in Columbia County at the time and the 2 speeders that got away on the Taconic during the time the Troopers were manning the hoseline will be caught next time.

As someone who takes a lot of fire pics in the Greene & Columbia areas I see the cooperation between law, fire and rescue squads all the time. You look up here at fire scenes and say "What the ....??" and I look at operations in the "Metro" areas and just scratch my head.

And Truck12345 seriously? Bill the FD for the Troopers time?? Maybe we should send bills to the NYSP every time we have to sit at a wire down on a STATE road and wait for NiMo or CH?? Maybe the next time we need the Troopers to help close a road so we can lay supply line across the street, maybe they won't be there.

I'm proud and happy that these Troopers were able to help and were not so disgruntled and screwed up that they just looked crosseyed at the Chief and said "Sorry dude. Not my job."

[xfirefighter484x 234]

I think this topic has run its course. Some good points came out, some people are idiots, but I don't have to say who, I think they did a pretty good job of doing that themselves.

Thank you to all who contributed positively here, it was a good inter-agency operation, and as others have said, "one hand washing the other."

This thread is now closed.