Cotton or FR Work Uniform Information

[JunebugKFD257 48]

I'm looking for some help on work uniforms:

We are in committee to replace our Cotton/Poly work uniforms with a more FF Friendly 100% Cotton or F/R material. An example of what we are looking is:

SS and LS Uniform shirts and pants with a similar style to what the FDNY is currently using (Navy for FF, Blue for LT, White for Capt and above) with embroidery. Pants (4 pocket or the 6 pocket cargo style). We wear polos from 6/1 to 9/1, so that would also be an option.

Shorts are out of the question, we have been told that.

So what I'm looking for from you folks is what brands to look for and what to stay away from. I'd appreciate any insight you can give me.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I normally avoid these topics since I work for a dealer but you're WAY out of my area so I'll give you my opinion.

100% cotton is always going to have issues with color retention. Most manufacturers will claim they have the latest technology to prevent fading, shrinking, etc. Its cotton. Its going to fade, its going to shrink. Accept that now so you aren't surprised later on.

Elbeco has a 100% cotton line that came out this year. I have a couple of the navy blue polos with the mic tabs and no-curl collars. They size pretty big out of the box to accomidate for the shrinking that will occur the first couple washings, so keep that in mind when you're sizing with them. But after a few washings they settle in to what I'd call a "normal" size. Very comfortable, all in all a good shirt for the money. The color retention is slightly better that the others I've tried, so there's that. They also make 100% cotton pants, but no button up shirts like FDNY has. I don't sell too much of their FR line but I believe there is one available. Elbeco re-inforces the crotch in their pants, I've never had a pair come back for a blowout yet.

I don't wear 100% cotton pants, but the FR pants I own are Topps Firewear. All in all not bad. FR stuff is usually VERY stiff and uncomfortable IMO, but Topps' are decent. They also come in 4 pocket, cargo pants and have the button up shirts you're looking for in the colors you mentioned. They can also do the embroidery direct from the factory which is a plus.

Blauer has both a 100% cotton and NFPA compliant FR line, as does Horace Small. Might want to check into those.

Here's the bottom line for both:

Cotton Positives: Decent prices, comfortable

Cotton Negatives: Shrinking, color fading (use COLD water people, it goes a LONG way to keeping your stuff professional looking)

FR Positives: Protection, less color fading

FR Negatives: Sometimes very stiff, EXTREMELY expensive, you'll see what I mean the first time you have to buy a set.

[Pagers 197]

http://www.fechheime...=111&ColorID=49

I think FDNY uses Flying Cross... I don't know about pants though, I have seen guys where all sorts of stuff, even saw one wearing jeans before.

Edited April 24, 2012 by lafd55

[antiquefirelt 994]

Our department has been buying 100% cotton for the last 10 years or so. Before that we bought a mix of FR uniforms and at one time Dickies" pants! Over the years, as SageVigiles said, we have learned cotton in comfortable and cheaper, but needs to be replaced more often. We upped the number of allowable issued pieces to cover this as the FR stuff was far more expensive and uncomfortable. We too have FFer's in navy, Lts in light blue and Capt's and above in white shirts. The colorfast issues are a problem with the firefighters as the pants and shirts do not wear evenly, likely because we also allow -shirts and polos after hours, weekends and through the summer, while the same pants are worn and washed year round.

As for brand issues. We've tried many and currently are issued Flying Cross, whose shirts stink IMO. The military press is cheesy and flattens out with ironing and the flaps under the buttons make ironing the front a PITA. Overall they are lighter weight fabric and don't last as long as the Lion brand we were getting before them. The pants aren't bad.

Right now we make two orders a year and each member is allowed 5 pieces per order (shirts and pants). Wearing them every third day, I usually need 4 pants (but only get 3) every six months. I'd say you can get more life out of any color but white shirts, but the white ones don't take long to destroy wearing TO gear. Looking around I'm betting our guys could use a fewmore pair of pants each period to keep the shirt/pants matching better.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

That brings up a good point. If you want the shirts looking crisp I'd recommend something with military creases that are stitched in as opposed to glued/ironed.

[antiquefirelt 994]

That brings up a good point. If you want the shirts looking crisp I'd recommend something with military creases that are stitched in as opposed to glued/ironed.

Another point on this point: if you have your shirts pressed by a laundry service, the military press will often get pressed flat in different directions, those that iron their own can make the sewn in ones look far more crisp. Our Flying Cross shirts are either glued or ironed, can't tell, but they're much flatter and take a laundry press better, but the Lions Stationwear 100% we used to get was sewn is and was far sharper when ironed than pressed.

[JunebugKFD257 48]

Guys, thank you very much for your input. They were all very informative. Anybody else willing to chip in is greatly appreciated. Currently, we have a clothing allowance of 900.00/year which we can purchase uniforms, t-shirts, footwear and any personal equipment we may need. Per S/O/G, we are supposed to have 3 L/S, 3 S/S uniform shirts, and 3 pairs of pants either the Blauer or Flying Cross.

Anyone else with ideas, opinions???

[JunebugKFD257 48]

I should also bring up that we work a 3 on/3 off work schedule. So our uniforms are being work at least once or twice a week.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

900 is pretty good for a uniform allowance. FR uniforms will eat that up quickly, but that's more than most in CT get.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I should also bring up that we work a 3 on/3 off work schedule. So our uniforms are being work at least once or twice a week.

How does a 3 on 3 off work? Are these 12 hour tours, 3 days, 3 off, 3 nights, three off?

[16fire5 693]

FDNY is currently using (Navy for FF, Blue for LT, White for Capt and above) with embroidery. Pants (4 pocket or the 6 pocket cargo style).

If I was starting from scratch I would not copy us on this. I would wear navy or black for firefighters, lieutenants, and captains. That is unless they will be in their office all the time. Line officers are going to get dirty and the light blue shows dirt easily. You can easily differientiate rank with the embrodiery and collar brass. I have seen this in other departments.

[Pagers 197]

How does a 3 on 3 off work? Are these 12 hour tours, 3 days, 3 off, 3 nights, three off?

It's basically a 36 or so hour shift...

There is also a department up here that wears t-shirts, blue with yellow screenprinting for firefighters and gray with black screenprinting for lts. and capts. and chiefs wear their white button ups.

[FDNYDCHI 38]

What about 5.11 tactical clothing. I have a few polo shirts and other stuff???

[JunebugKFD257 48]

The 3on/3off schedule consists of 3 10hr days followed by 96hrs off, 3 14hr night shifts followed by 72hrs off. So the schedule works like this: DDDOOONNNOOO and back around again. It's not 36hrs, we work a 42hr work week.

As far as 5.11 is concerned, it's an option as MES and Rosen's in Albany are dealers around here. But we are looking at garments that are not only made in the USA, but Union Labor as well as utilizing a local dealer.

[antiquefirelt 994]

The 3on/3off schedule consists of 3 10hr days followed by 96hrs off, 3 14hr night shifts followed by 72hrs off. So the schedule works like this: DDDOOONNNOOO and back around again. It's not 36hrs, we work a 42hr work week.

As I was thinking, thanks. We try and keep track of every 3 shift system scenario for future reference, though our goal is to add a shift, it's difficult when the daily shift is short staffed to start.

[Pagers 197]

The 3on/3off schedule consists of 3 10hr days followed by 96hrs off, 3 14hr night shifts followed by 72hrs off. So the schedule works like this: DDDOOONNNOOO and back around again. It's not 36hrs, we work a 42hr work week.

I was referring to a work shift when saying 36 hours not an entire week.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I was referring to a work shift when saying 36 hours not an entire week.

It appears that too would be incorrect as their work shifts as stated are 10 hrs or 14 hrs, depending on day or night tour.

[JunebugKFD257 48]

As I was thinking, thanks. We try and keep track of every 3 shift system scenario for future reference, though our goal is to add a shift, it's difficult when the daily shift is short staffed to start.

You only have 3 Platoons up there?

[JunebugKFD257 48]

It's basically a 36 or so hour shift...

There is also a department up here that wears t-shirts, blue with yellow screenprinting for firefighters and gray with black screenprinting for lts. and capts. and chiefs wear their white button ups.

K-mart nobody works a 36hr shift unless it's a trade or OT. Either 10, 12, 14, 24, or 48hrs (I think the Arsenal does 48/96). As far as t-shirts are concerned. T-shirts are comfortable but it's not professional looking when you are conducting the department's business during the daytime.

[antiquefirelt 994]

You only have 3 Platoons up there?

Yes, we're certainly in the minority of FD's in the NE with a three platoon system. There were a few more that have slowly evolved and added a fourth as our plan is, but as of late changes like that are barely visible and only whispered. It's been a debate within the ranks as well, as while most would appreciate the extra time of and ability to have a few good days between tours, the majority also recognizes that adding more staff to each shift makes sense to make the job safer. While the latter seems a no brainer, the fact is that our people spend so much time here given OT, recalls, training and duty that attendance to non-mandatory drills and recalls for minor incidents is way down. Even upping minimum hours paid for recalls couldn't create a significant shift in this trend. At some point, contrary to many politicians and civilians beliefs, it's not all about money. Money doesn't buy time.

[JunebugKFD257 48]

Yes, we're certainly in the minority of FD's in the NE with a three platoon system. There were a few more that have slowly evolved and added a fourth as our plan is, but as of late changes like that are barely visible and only whispered. It's been a debate within the ranks as well, as while most would appreciate the extra time of and ability to have a few good days between tours, the majority also recognizes that adding more staff to each shift makes sense to make the job safer. While the latter seems a no brainer, the fact is that our people spend so much time here given OT, recalls, training and duty that attendance to non-mandatory drills and recalls for minor incidents is way down. Even upping minimum hours paid for recalls couldn't create a significant shift in this trend. At some point, contrary to many politicians and civilians beliefs, it's not all about money. Money doesn't buy time.

And that Governor you guys got isn't helping you out either.

[antiquefirelt 994]

And that Governor you guys got isn't helping you out either.

No doubt about that! He's as anti-labor as they get. I can't disagree with him on everything, but the damage he's caused outweighs the few sensible measures.

[JunebugKFD257 48]

We got your back down here. You saw what happened in Wisconsin and Ohio.

[conman 40]

Junebug have you talked with anybody at the Hose? I believe they have FDNY style shirts.

[JunebugKFD257 48]

Junebug have you talked with anybody at the Hose? I believe they have FDNY style shirts.

No.