Westchester County Incident Responses

[BFD1054 1,552]

ROFLMAO......In Westchester their are not enough apparatus to respond. Thats funny.

While individual depts may not have 4 and 2 or whatever, its available within minutes.

The real issue is will the have sufficent numbers of trained responders.

Capt, i whole-heartedly agree with you. I was trying to see if the OP meant that kind of response using M/A. We all know that there is an OVER abundance of apparatus in Westchester. Many VFDs cant even get these rigs off the floor on a regular basis.

TRUST me, i know that the apparatus is out there and available, was just trying to see where the OP was coming from.

If you re-read my last post, i touch on the topic of having the proper number of properly trained members on the rigs. Apparatus doesnt put out fires, properly trained personnel do. So to say EVERY MVA should get 2 & 1 really doesnt mean a damn thing when it comes down to it, now does it?

Now, going back to your statement that apparatus is available within minutes. You are absolutley correct. But, why should run-of-the-mill calls require soo much M/A? I wanted to steer my posts in a certain direction, one which i think this thread will lead to. Shall i dare say it...CONSOLIDATION!

[fdny41 11]

But instead of having Engines carrying extraction tools have the Truck carry them.

Also i think fast teams should be trucks not engines. Just in my opinion.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Bucks County Pa. an all Volunteer county (with the exception of one station I think that has paid staff Mon-Fri 7-7pm) has been operating a box system for decades where the closest stations and apparatus get dispatched no matter district lines. The whole county is dispatched by 1 center, which solves alot of problems.

Here is the link to their box system, which explains how much of what gets dispatched county wide depending on the callers info.

http://www.buckscoun.../fp_phantom.asp

if u click on the "back to manual" link you can read other info on their system...like "dispatch of apparatus" the dispatcher has alot of control to do whats needed.

Edited April 18, 2012 by spin_the_wheel

[wraftery 1,275]

You must remember thet Typing is a work in progress by NIMS. It is by no means finished, and the final list will take a long, long time to get out to the "guy in the street."

So far, it has taken maybe ten years to copy the types of only a few resources from the forestry fire service.

Don't hold your breath on Typing.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Many VFDs cant even get these rigs off the floor on a regular basis.

Now, going back to your statement that apparatus is available within minutes. You are absolutley correct. But, why should run-of-the-mill calls require soo much M/A? I wanted to steer my posts in a certain direction, one which i think this thread will lead to. Shall i dare say it...CONSOLIDATION!

The multiple department "system" in Weschester makes it hard to think true "system". Most Municipal and regional or county departments operate stations with 1 engine and/or 1 truck (sometimes other special units). You rarely see 2, 3 or 4 engines in a fire station. You set up a standard response based on an evaluation of what procedures need to be done at an emergency, need to stretch a line? need to vent, need to extricate, etc/ how many people per procedure. Then what is your minimum standard for personnel per rig. If you need 9 responders to get those jobs done in a timely fasion and staffing is 4, then you need 3 rigs to do it.

The apparatus dispatch will come multiple stations (depts). so if 3 engines are needed they come from the 3 closest stations. If that were to happen, then its not Mutual aid....consider FDNY; when rigs go from one section to another its not mutual aid.

[grumpyff 1,159]

But instead of having Engines carrying extraction tools have the Truck carry them.

Also i think fast teams should be trucks not engines. Just in my opinion.

I think you are too caught up in FDNY operations. There are some parkways in Westchester County where a ladder or more likely, a tower ladder will not fit underneath the stone arch bridges.

We can not even agree on the definiton of a trained FAST team member , and you are worried about what type of apparatus they are responding in. you are putting the cart before the horse.

Edited April 19, 2012 by grumpyff

[E58RET 24]

Unfortunately in WestChester,some times PRIDE goeth before the Fall. Many alarms are answered with 3 Engines and a Truck with a rescue , unfortunately most are manned with a driver and little or no crew depending on time of day/night,therfore all the theoretical responses are useless unless the Volunteer rigs wait for a crew to arrive at the station prior to responding.

[fdny41 11]

Wouldn't a truck be more usefull in a fast role though because it has ladders, saws,etc

[16fire5 693]

Wouldn't a truck be more usefull in a fast role though because it has ladders, saws,etc

Not necessarily many departments have the basic tools they need for a FAST on their engine or rescue. Although I have put up ladders as the FAST truck in those instances we used the ladders off the apparatus in the block. In the FDNY which you seem to be familiar with the FAST is the 3rd truck on a 75 it's the 5th truck on a 76 or 77 so they don't always get optimal position. No single piece of apparatus is going to have all the things you need for a firefighter removal. The FAST officer should be thinking about the resouces at their disposal ans where they will get things they need.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Wouldn't a truck be more usefull in a fast role though because it has ladders, saws,etc

In many other threads the topic was how many depts. could not staff a FAST role because of staffing/training. If thats the case it does not matter which vehicle its assigned to.

[wraftery 1,275]

I think Westchester County needs a more organized Response structure.

For Example a 10-75 or working fire response should look like this:

4 Engines

2 Ladders

1 Fast Truck - With chief from department of designated Fast team.

3 or 2 chiefs depending on availability.

2nd Alarm assignment should look something like this:

WCDES Field Communications

3 Additional engines

2 Trucks

1 Rescue/Utility

And a 2nd Alarm Chief

Safety chief

3rd Alarm

2 additional Engines

1 Truck

Mask Service Unit

2 Chiefs

Rehab vehicle

WCDES Support Unit ( if available)

This is just a rough outline

Please i would like some input on all of your thoughts good and bad.

Wow! That's a lot of resources. I think I just had a revelation! Maybe the reason for Westchester FD's not calling for all these resources is that we don't know how to organize all these people and apparatus into a proper fireground command system. I've been away from Westchester for a while now, so I have a question.

Aside from Scarsdale and White Plains, who I know are using ICS as-written, who in the county is using ICS (not taking courses...I said using) on a regular basis?

If you are not using ICS, what fireground command system are you using and why?

Give me a little info, and maybe we will start another thread. This should prove interesting.

[fdny41 11]

also do u think when volunteers come to a scene in there personal vehicles there should be some-type of staging area for them rather than having them scattered all over and possibly blocking apparatus.

[engine51 10]

also do u think when volunteers come to a scene in there personal vehicles there should be some-type of staging area for them rather than having them scattered all over and possibly blocking apparatus.

I personally think thats a great idea,but your going to wast time (with a volunteer dept that if anything cant afford to take a couple of guys aside to make parking lost) Also how would you establish something like that? a lot of different streets and terrain...

[engine51 10]

I think Westchester County needs a more organized Response structure.

For Example a 10-75 or working fire response should look like this:

4 Engines

2 Ladders

1 Fast Truck - With chief from department of designated Fast team.

3 or 2 chiefs depending on availability.

2nd Alarm assignment should look something like this:

WCDES Field Communications

3 Additional engines

2 Trucks

1 Rescue/Utility

And a 2nd Alarm Chief

Safety chief

3rd Alarm

2 additional Engines

1 Truck

Mask Service Unit

2 Chiefs

Rehab vehicle

WCDES Support Unit ( if available)

This is just a rough outline

Please i would like some input on all of your thoughts good and bad.

Like already said not every department can afford to do that, plus wether your up county or down south those resources can have a 4 minute M/A response or even a 10-15min M/A response.....

Also you cant really give out Numbered Assignments in Westchester because it depends if its a store, a Mall, Golf Club, apartment building, and/or any sized house

And for an example (like the sound shore) not every town has a rescue and what if you need a stick, well now your stuck choosing Rye or New Ro?