Katonah FD Proposes $3 Million Bond for Renovations

[firedude 985]

Katonah FD Proposes $3 Million Bond for Renovations

KATONAH, N.Y. - The Katonah Fire Department will ask residents to approve a $3 million bond to help renovate its half-century old firehouse.

Full The Daily Bedford Article

[drgripsthrowawaytowel 72]

Word on the street is that they're still looking into a ladder/quint. Will the new firehouse support space for it?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Word on the street is that they're still looking into a ladder/quint. Will the new firehouse support space for it?

Its not rumored. It was confirmed in the local newspaper a week ago.

[ja3kfd 34]

Its not a new firehouse it is renovations to the existing building, yes the building can support the Quint that is being bought but the to set record straight, un renovated building could support it.

[mfc2257 464]

Another aerial device in Westchester. Great. Along with all the pumper tankers that have been added lately without eliminating an engine... the over redundancy in Westchester is at an all time high. The last thing Katonah needs is an aerial device. Let the boys on TL57 do what they do best.

Edited March 16, 2012 by mfc2257

[drgripsthrowawaytowel 72]

Another aerial device in Westchester. Great. Along with all the pumper tankers that have been added lately without eliminating an engine... the over redundancy in Westchester is at an all time high. The last thing Katonah needs is an aerial device. Let the boys on TL57 do what they do best.

Exactly what I was getting at. The guys of BH get out the door on mutual aid runs before most apparatus of whatever home department they're responding to do, mine included. They also are damn good at what they do too.

[firedude 985]

Another aerial device in Westchester. Great. Along with all the pumper tankers that have been added lately without eliminating an engine... the over redundancy in Westchester is at an all time high. The last thing Katonah needs is an aerial device. Let the boys on TL57 do what they do best.

Exactly what I was getting at. The guys of BH get out the door on mutual aid runs before most apparatus of whatever home department they're responding to do, mine included. They also are damn good at what they do too.

My thoughts exactly. While I'm no expert... with TL57 just down the road, a Katonah/Bedford Hills dual response would be a lot cheaper then buying a new rig. Makes much more sense too.

[Pedro911 22]

this is ridiculous. katonah really needs to expand their magic kingdom? the $ would be better off spent actually paying their FFs for busting their a** for the district. i'm so over this sort of thing.

[mreis95 77]

Pedro what do you mean by magic kingdom? And you clearly aren't over it because if you were you wouldn't be posting how much you are "over this sort of thing". Please elaborate because your statement right now has no foundation.

[#244 0]

this is ridiculous. katonah really needs to expand their magic kingdom? the $ would be better off spent actually paying their FFs for busting their a** for the district. i'm so over this sort of thing.

If you took the time to read the article, you'd see that this is not an expansion but a renovation. Katonah is truly sorry the the Tanker makes the floor plates move when it rolls out, that the emergency generator doesn't last during the ever-increasing storms, and the twenty year old paint job is starting to peel, all of that without even going into specifics. It said it all right there in the article.

The only expansion is coming in the form of a new annex building with tower for on-site storage and on-site training. So yes, if advancing training as a department and having the ability to safely and conveniently store all their equipment(instead of renting a self storage unit or whatever else might be proposed) makes Katonah a "Magic Kingdom", then so be it.

[ny10570 745]

If you took the time to read the article, you'd see that this is not an expansion but a renovation. Katonah is truly sorry the the Tanker makes the floor plates move when it rolls out, that the emergency generator doesn't last during the ever-increasing storms, and the twenty year old paint job is starting to peel, all of that without even going into specifics. It said it all right there in the article.

The only expansion is coming in the form of a new annex building with tower for on-site storage and on-site training. So yes, if advancing training as a department and having the ability to safely and conveniently store all their equipment(instead of renting a self storage unit or whatever else might be proposed) makes Katonah a "Magic Kingdom", then so be it.

Why does Katonah need a bond to maintain their facility? If the structure is sagging under the weight of the current apparatus, they are waaaaay late in addressing the problem. Generator upgrades and maintenance along with paint and storage space should be included with the general upkeep and maintenance of the facility. A training tower is a different story, but with Millwood, the Westchester FTC facilities, and some of the northern options; is another large training facility necessary? If they just need more storage space why not go with a shipping container or simple addition? Why spend $3 Million?

[mreis95 77]

So how often do you guys paint your fire house and update all your stuff that Katonah would be far behind? I disagree with Katonah being way late. With the increasing size of the trucks and weight how do you know that a few years down the road it'll begin to do this? What are these other "northern" options? I'll give you the training center however every Monday night you can't drive down to the FTC. If they are going to rebuild the area that houses their antique and all the items in need of storage why not make it a place to train, to do bail out, practice on ladder operations with this new ladder coming into their department? I also don't see how you are considering this a "large training facility". KFD is a satellite for the FTC so why not make it more advantagous for everyone and allow classes to have the ability to do more at one place, allow the FTC to run more classes out of KFD and also become a place for more agencies within the Town of Bedford and others not near Millwood to utilize.

Edited March 16, 2012 by mreis95

[FFLieu 70]

Another aerial device in Westchester. Great. Along with all the pumper tankers that have been added lately without eliminating an engine... the over redundancy in Westchester is at an all time high. The last thing Katonah needs is an aerial device. Let the boys on TL57 do what they do best.

Obviously, the plan works for them, otherwise, they wouldn't be putting it into practice.

[mfc2257 464]

Obviously, the plan works for them, otherwise, they wouldn't be putting it into practice.

This is Westchester we are talking about right? There are more apparatus in the county that weren't planned for than anywhere else I can think of. Wanting to have what the other guys have does not constitute a plan. If KFD eliminates an engine in place of a quint then it's a start. They should also eliminate another engine given the purchase of T6.

This is not a KFD rub, it's a county wide issue that is only getting worse.

[x635 4,066]

Wasn't part of the renovation in 1997 so they could fit the new Rescue? Also, were the floors an issue at that time?

Glad to hear they will be using some of the money to construct, hopefully, a training structure and props. It's really a great central place to hold training.

I also hope they will include sleeping quarters for firefighters who wish to stay at the station. especially during storms and eventually, one day if they have to hire career guys.

I guess whatever they feel for the district is fine, but where is all this money coming from? I guess if you can afford to live in Katonah, the slight tax increase is a drop in the bucket.

[mreis95 77]

So you're arguing the fact that they are getting another apparatus and think it is in addition to the ones they have because they should be replacing an engine with it? I do not see how we can discuss that since we do not know what their plan is. I disagree with what you are saying about them getting rid of engines. I'm sure the tanker doesn't hold nearly as much hose as an engine, also we don't know specifics about the ladder yet.

Katonah has a lot of long driveways and needs a decent supply of 5". So if you drop 2 engines for a tanker and a Quint I don't see how you can propose that is a good idea just from a hose standard.

[mreis95 77]

Seth,

Yeah looking at the article a decent amount is coming from bonds and for a decent part of their town I'm sure probably won't be a problem.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

we don't know specifics about the ladder yet.

75 feet.

http://www.record-review.com/record-review/Record-Review_030912_KFD.html

Separate from the renovation project, the department has a new 75-foot ladder truck with pumping and first response capability on order, but that truck will be paid for entirely with capital reserves, according to the board chairman.

[mreis95 77]

Yes that we know but thank you. I'm meaning like how much hose, and tank size and pump capacity. I think that should be known prior to people saying anything about it.

[mfc2257 464]

Yes that we know but thank you. I'm meaning like how much hose, and tank size and pump capacity. I think that should be known prior to people saying anything about it.

I've been in the game long enough to look at a duck and know that it'll quack. Tanker 6 has a 2000gpm pump and I'd put money on it that it's got 1000+ feet of supply line. They've got 3 other class A pumpers as well. Add a quint to the mix and you're talking about 5 class A apparatus along with a heavy squad and a mini pumper....

THIS IS NOT A KFD rant, it just happens to be where I hopped on my soap box today... Look at the incident alerts on this website for northern Westchester... You see departments sending 1 and 1 mutual aid to another department and then requesting standby coverage in their own quarters while 4 or more front line apparatus sit idle... You can insert any number of northern Westchester departments into my rant including my own former department, Millwood. Chappaqua, Briarcliff, Armonk, Pleasantville, the Tri-Village gang, the list goes on and on where departments have 6 or more pieces of apparatus, often times redundant in their own department or certainly with their neighbors and they can never get more than a handful of it out the door at any given time. This is a waste of taxpayer money.

Edited March 16, 2012 by mfc2257

[mreis95 77]

I understand that it is not a rant about the KFD, however you should have your facts straight prior to saying what you think is a problem for this department and in the age of the internet it is easy to confirm the facts.

T6 does not have over 1000 feet of supply line it has 600 feet.

After talking to some people other agencies in the area are looking forward to using a smaller aerial device that also can be used as an engine. I understand where you are coming from about having multiple of the same pieces, however I do not believe you have checked your facts about how this ladder will be used, how it will be incorporated into the department, what the specs are and how it will be a good asset to the area.

I just do not like when people attempt to say what is needed in a department or an area without knowing any real facts about that piece.

[mfc2257 464]

I understand that it is not a rant about the KFD, however you should have your facts straight prior to saying what you think is a problem for this department and in the age of the internet it is easy to confirm the facts.

T6 does not have over 1000 feet of supply line it has 600 feet.

After talking to some people other agencies in the area are looking forward to using a smaller aerial device that also can be used as an engine. I understand where you are coming from about having multiple of the same pieces, however I do not believe you have checked your facts about how this ladder will be used, how it will be incorporated into the department, what the specs are and how it will be a good asset to the area.

I just do not like when people attempt to say what is needed in a department or an area without knowing any real facts about that piece.

Facts in this case are very subjective... It would be tough to objectively argue that KFD needs an aerial device.

600ft vs 1000 ft we're splitting hairs... E116 carries 4000+ feet of 3in and E115 and E117 each carry 1800+ feet of LDH. With a split lay of E116's 3in and the 3600+ feet on the other pumpers AND the 600 feet on the tanker we're talking over a mile of hose. Assuming they could get all the rigs out the door in time to establish contineous water supply and mount an attack, there is enough hose to stretch 85 percent of the way from Katonah FD to Bedford Hills FD where 3 more class A apparatus, a mini pumper, a tower ladder and another heavy rescue are sitting with another mile or so of supply line. I think they're covered.

KFD is another department in Westchester that is adding more resources than it's members can staff. It's never going to end... A decade from now everyone will have their own aerial device and the vast majority of them won't have a clue how to perform truck company operations because each department will only catch one or two jobs a year where the rig is used properly and the crew actually performs truck work. For the number of fires in Northern Westchester, the region could use to eliminate 10 or more of the 30+ aerial devices in the area. The county certainly doesn't need more.

On the other hand, I'm glad that KFD is getting the needed renovations to their station as well as an opportunity to build a training facility near home. Anything that adds to the skill and training of fire crews will most certainly increase the chances of a positive outcome at the fire scene. Training puts out fires and sends everyone home safely. Apparatus is just a tool they use along the way.

Edited March 16, 2012 by mfc2257

[firedude 985]

So, can anyone confirm the Katonah has ordered a new truck? Any details about it (make, model, etc)? Due Date?

[ja3kfd 34]

Tanker 6 has 600 feet of LDH

Engine 115 has approx. 1300 feet LDH

Engine 116 has approx. 1400 feet LDH

Engine 117 has approx. 1400 feet LDH

Katonah has put quite a bit of thought into this, yes we have alot of training to do yes we have alot to learn, if the truck is not ordered it will be ordered,soon.

I did not pay attention if they said it was ordered as I am on the truck commitee but Katonah and Somers Commisioners meetings are the same night so I can not be at both.

Smeal 75 foot, 400 gallons water 1000 feet 5" LDH, Rear Mount Ladder , Crosslays, ground ladders. etc.

Ladder would fit in building as is know,

We noticed that the floor drains were starting to break up, upon further investigation found out the orginal floor, ( not addition floor was collapsing and had voids under it, also need to add a oil seperator as per DEC, which was not needed when addition was put on building.

in my opinion if they were ever to consolidate Town of Bedford into one FD we would still need both a Tower and a straight stick, get rid of some pumpers sure but I am not the one to do any of that in Bedford. I do think they will complimant each other nicely in town. Also we will not be getting rid of 117 the engine that is do to be replaced until further on down the road and we configure response, training etc.

Edited March 16, 2012 by ja3kfd

[mfc2257 464]

Tanker 6 has 600 feet of LDH

Engine 115 has approx. 1300 feet LDH

Engine 116 has approx. 1400 feet LDH

Engine 117 has approx. 1400 feet LDH

My previous post was slightly off based on KFD website. 4700 of LDH posted above vs 2000 ft of 3in and 600, 1800, 1900 of LDH on KFD web. Still 9/10's mile of LDH

[ja3kfd 34]

Ed I have not looked at our website in a while but Katonah did away with 3" hose while I was chief, that was 2000 to 2003 in the beginning we had a split bed of 3" and 5" on 116 the other enginges did have that much 5" back then. My thoughts and theroy on the quint is we need to do more with less. In my thinking and in what I have seen in my time in Katonah if we had a Quint, as first due, and if call is in hydrant district we could do, most if not all with the one combination truck.

I am not here to argue or get anyone angry , but the pizza station would be a good example of having everything in front with one truck. A hydrant with 150 psi and plenty of volume as well aerial, ground ladders, crosslays, all in one shot , full crew on rig, yes we have a lot of traing ahead of us but with the training we have going on, the guys that are doing it, alredy do it for a living and are officers on ladders and a lot of years under there belts we should be good given the time, to become proficent in using it.

Out of the hydrant district Quint with tanker and then we will have to take it from there,either Katonah engines and mutual aid tankers or however it plays out.

[Bnechis 3,961]

My thoughts and theroy on the quint is we need to do more with less. In my thinking and in what I have seen in my time in Katonah if we had a Quint, as first due, and if call is in hydrant district we could do, most if not all with the one combination truck.

While that always sounds great, I have yet to see one that does it all or even does it well. And those that get close are too big for many communities.

[mreis95 77]

Facts in this case are very subjective... It would be tough to objectively argue that KFD needs an aerial device.

600ft vs 1000 ft we're splitting hairs... E116 carries 4000+ feet of 3in and E115 and E117 each carry 1800+ feet of LDH. With a split lay of E116's 3in and the 3600+ feet on the other pumpers AND the 600 feet on the tanker we're talking over a mile of hose. Assuming they could get all the rigs out the door in time to establish contineous water supply and mount an attack, there is enough hose to stretch 85 percent of the way from Katonah FD to Bedford Hills FD where 3 more class A apparatus, a mini pumper, a tower ladder and another heavy rescue are sitting with another mile or so of supply line. I think they're covered.

KFD is another department in Westchester that is adding more resources than it's members can staff. It's never going to end... A decade from now everyone will have their own aerial device and the vast majority of them won't have a clue how to perform truck company operations because each department will only catch one or two jobs a year where the rig is used properly and the crew actually performs truck work. For the number of fires in Northern Westchester, the region could use to eliminate 10 or more of the 30+ aerial devices in the area. The county certainly doesn't need more.

On the other hand, I'm glad that KFD is getting the needed renovations to their station as well as an opportunity to build a training facility near home. Anything that adds to the skill and training of fire crews will most certainly increase the chances of a positive outcome at the fire scene. Training puts out fires and sends everyone home safely. Apparatus is just a tool they use along the way.

Using what you have said in your posts so far they need to replace these engines with tanker 6 and this quint and if so you wouldn't be able to make the lay your talking about. Your flip flopping.

[mfc2257 464]

Using what you have said in your posts so far they need to replace these engines with tanker 6 and this quint and if so you wouldn't be able to make the lay your talking about. Your flip flopping.

YAWN!!!!

I believe you meant to say "you're flip flopping"... I digress...

I'm not sure where I flip flopped. Was it when I indicated that the current apparatus has somewhere in the area of one mile of supply line and then drew in the fact that another station that is 1.7 miles away (google maps) probably has a similar amount of supply line. Between KFD and BHFD less than two miles apart, AND the fact that I'm unaware of any driveways that are two miles long in the area, if you can name a logical reason for making a two mile lay in the Town of Bedford I'd love to hear it.

Or is the "flop" coming when you don't know that a modern quint carries a similar amount of supply line as an engine and it would be logical, even fair to the tax payers who are footing the bill, to eliminate an engine when acquiring a quint? It would appear that KFD is looking at a Smeal quint. Coincidental to this conversation, I'd offer that I worked off a Smeal quint for several years and can comfortably say that it will carry 1000-1250 feet of supply line without a problem.

The way that fire districts in the NY metro area choose to equip their fleet's has little to do with necessity and plenty to do with irrational school play amongst individuals who are more interested in saying they were on the apparatus committee than they are with providing the taxpayer with great fire protection. KFD is merely collateral damage in what has been a years long mission for me to point this out to those who continue to believe that a problem doesn't exist. This conversation will pop up again when someone in Mount Pleasant decides to replace their tower with yet another over redundant tower... OR better yet finds a way to add a quint to sit next to their tower like Hawthorn and Somers did not long ago.

[mreis95 77]

I find it rude that you are correcting me, didn't realize we had the grammar police. In which case it's spelt Hawthorne. I apologize my for autocorrect from my phone. You said KFD should be losing engines when they get the ladder and dump one with the tanker. Which I do not disagree with, but you then give a scenario using all the engines and the tanker about laying hose using apparatus you'd like to see gone. Can we get on topic though. This was about renovations not the apparatus or hose.

Edited March 17, 2012 by mreis95