Consideration Of Life Experience In The Hiring Process

[x635 4,066]

I'm wondering how many departments consider "life experience" when making hiring decisions?

This is the way I'm looking at it. Those of you that are 30, how do you look at how you were when you were 20? Life experience teaches us many things that are required for our jobs.

Take the Cop hired at 23 years old. Lived a sheltered life. Went to college and got a degree. Got hired right after graduation. It was his first job ever.

Is he going to be able to be as effective a Cop as a 28 year old who has held other jobs since he was 16, been through some of the trials of lives, has been in relationships, etc?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I'm wondering how many departments consider "life experience" when making hiring decisions?

This is the way I'm looking at it. Those of you that are 30, how do you look at how you were when you were 20? Life experience teaches us many things that are required for our jobs.

Take the Cop hired at 23 years old. Lived a sheltered life. Went to college and got a degree. Got hired right after graduation. It was his first job ever.

Is he going to be able to be as effective a Cop as a 28 year old who has held other jobs since he was 16, been through some of the trials of lives, has been in relationships, etc?

To me the only answer is...it depends. Depends on the department field training, demographics. Depends on if the 28 year old can get along with varying age groups potentially telling him what to do and being the low end of the totum pole and could also have predjudicial mindsets already. What jobs were they? So on and so forth. Lot of things to take into consideration...but excellent, thought and discussion provoking topic.

[9liner 10]

I'm wondering how many departments consider "life experience" when making hiring decisions?

This is the way I'm looking at it. Those of you that are 30, how do you look at how you were when you were 20? Life experience teaches us many things that are required for our jobs.

Take the Cop hired at 23 years old. Lived a sheltered life. Went to college and got a degree. Got hired right after graduation. It was his first job ever.

Is he going to be able to be as effective a Cop as a 28 year old who has held other jobs since he was 16, been through some of the trials of lives, has been in relationships, etc?

This is precisely why you won't see those "young guys" being hired by Federal Law Enforcement Agencies. Word in the hiring circles, is that it is very rare to find an 1811 (Special Agent) in any of the Federal Agencies who were hired below the age of 25. I have a few former co-workers who went federal. They were all told during the hiring process that life experience plays a major role in the decision making process simply for the fact that maturity comes into play.

I have encountered plenty of young 20-somethings, with a masters level education, who have the moral standards and decision making prowess of a teenager.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I'm wondering how many departments consider "life experience" when making hiring decisions?

This is the way I'm looking at it. Those of you that are 30, how do you look at how you were when you were 20? Life experience teaches us many things that are required for our jobs.

Take the Cop hired at 23 years old. Lived a sheltered life. Went to college and got a degree. Got hired right after graduation. It was his first job ever.

Is he going to be able to be as effective a Cop as a 28 year old who has held other jobs since he was 16, been through some of the trials of lives, has been in relationships, etc?

Given some of our recent hires, we're looking into a revamped hiring system that requires either military service or a number of years in the workforce. There's something to be said for being a well rounded individual who's worked to support themselves, not just to make a car payment while living with mom and dad. We've also noted that those with military experience tend to fit the FD organizational structure better and are less apt to work hard to get out of hard work, regardless of what the duty.

[HubEng21 14]

Given some of our recent hires, we're looking into a revamped hiring system that requires either military service or a number of years in the workforce. There's something to be said for being a well rounded individual who's worked to support themselves, not just to make a car payment while living with mom and dad. We've also noted that those with military experience tend to fit the FD organizational structure better and are less apt to work hard to get out of hard work, regardless of what the duty.

Then where is one to start if they do not make the choice of joining the military? For the past 5 years I have seen this exact topic happen time and time again; and its not just FD or PD fields. As I do agree with "experience" counting on a hiring process, I also agree with giving someone (aka college grads) the opportunity to gain the experience who does not already have it. I agree a lot on what alsfirefighter said above and I believe some agencies should look into how they are hiring.

Edited March 8, 2012 by HubEng21

[LTFIREPRG 154]

While experience can play a key role when hiring an individual for a specific job function, is not necessarily the answer for entry level positions. With civil service positions such as police and fire, you have the academies to determine if the individual is going to work out, as well as their probationary period where they can be released. Tom, makes a great point, where did they work, did they even have to interact with coworkers or customers/public in their former jobs. Also the civil service process takes into consideration experience when it comes time for promotions, in most cases you need 4 to 5 years on the job before you are eligible to participate in a promotional exam, and 1 year in rank before taking the next promotional exam. You also receive points on the exam based on service credits for your years of experience on the job.

[9liner 10]

Then where is one to start if they do not make the choice of joining the military? For the past 5 years I have seen this exact topic happen time and time again; and its not just FD or PD fields. As I do agree with "experience" counting on a hiring process, I also agree with giving someone (aka college grads) the opportunity to gain the experience who does not already have it. I agree a lot on what alsfirefighter said above and I believe some agencies should look into how they are hiring.

It is my opinion that in the age of the "easy degree", a Bachelor's degree, and I would even proffer a master's degree, means less and less. A bachelor's degree today is what a high school diploma was 20 years ago. A bachelor's degree does not guarantee that someone has the maturity level or required decision making required for said job. This is precisely why many agencies look for that "well-rounded" individual. Just because you went to school for 4 years does not necessarily show a pattern of sound decision making and judgement. Merely, it shows you have started something and saw it through to the end. I have been in and out of college for the past 10 years of my life. I only have an A.A.S. and I'm 3/4 complete with my Bachelor's. However, in my last 10 years as a FF, Medic, Trooper, and Pilot I can honestly say those were MUCH more valuable experiences than a piece of paper which shows that I started something and saw it through to the end.

I have attained many "hard to get jobs", two in particular, (Trooper and Army Pilot) without the degree. Whenever I have interviewed, I let my experience, knowledge, record of successes, and sound judgement speak louder than anything else. Granted, I have had to work my way up, so to speak, but in the end, the reward has been worth all the hard work and diligence. I have learned to be patient and things eventually work themselves out if you want it bad enough.

To those of you intent on going to college and trying to obtain some public safety position: I would highly recommend that you do not limit yourself to your chosen career field. By this I mean steer clear of those criminal justice and fire science degrees. Speaking with many recruiters, they would prefer to see an individual with a non-related degree. Their premise is that THEY will teach you what you need to know to do the job safely and efficiently. Set yourself up for success in the future and consider your post-retirement options. This is especially important in today's budget-strapped times where our jobs are not nearly as secure as they used to be.

[jacko1026 7]

I'm wondering how many departments consider "life experience" when making hiring decisions?

This is the way I'm looking at it. Those of you that are 30, how do you look at how you were when you were 20? Life experience teaches us many things that are required for our jobs.

Take the Cop hired at 23 years old. Lived a sheltered life. Went to college and got a degree. Got hired right after graduation. It was his first job ever.

Is he going to be able to be as effective a Cop as a 28 year old who has held other jobs since he was 16, been through some of the trials of lives, has been in relationships, etc?

x635, this is a very interesting post...

I definitely agree that the new hire who has had life experience appreciates these jobs more when they

come on. A young member who has never held a job and comes on these jobs , (some starting at $80-100k) just

think that it works this way at all jobs,whereas the member with the experience knows better.This is not an

attack on the young guys coming on the job, but from what I have noticed from the past two classes that

have come on my department , these guys hae a sense of "it's all about me", and a "sense of entitlement".

And dont get me started on the texting, as youre explaining to them what to do..(I cant stand that).

[antiquefirelt 994]

Then where is one to start if they do not make the choice of joining the military?

In our case this would leave you with working for a given number of years beyond school. Again this is an avenue we're studying to better serve our hiring processes in the future.

We're not anti-education by any stretch, but have found over and over, especially as of late, that people with degrees and no work experience seem to not live up to our expectations, while those with a little work history or military time seem to make better employees. There's nothing like a stack of bills and no one to turn to, to make people appreciate having a job and showing some work ethic.

[HubEng21 14]

In our case this would leave you with working for a given number of years beyond school. Again this is an avenue we're studying to better serve our hiring processes in the future.

We're not anti-education by any stretch, but have found over and over, especially as of late, that people with degrees and no work experience seem to not live up to our expectations, while those with a little work history or military time seem to make better employees. There's nothing like a stack of bills and no one to turn to, to make people appreciate having a job and showing some work ethic.

But my question is... where do you start? I understand you can work after you graduate, but where that will give you experience? Working at Subway isnt considered Experience for the fields, I believe, we are talking about right? For the older experienced career level individuals in this forum, what type of entry level positions or fields would you recommend to those straight out of college AND out of Military that will provide them with the Experience now needed during the hiring process?

[antiquefirelt 994]

But my question is... where do you start? I understand you can work after you graduate, but where that will give you experience? Working at Subway isnt considered Experience for the fields, I believe, we are talking about right?

Truthfully right now I'm apt to believe someone who worked at Subway for 4 years likely is more prepared than someone who's taken a 4 year degree program regardless of the field but never worked or lived outside of home. There's more to life experience than firefighting/EMS experience. In fact very often, those experiences can be harmful depending on where you gained it. Just being part of the American workforce, understanding why taxpayers often feel the way they do, not taking a job for granted are some of the things I'd like a new employee to understand. Often working in the private sector leads to an appreciation of some of the fundamentals of public service.

[10512 214]

I have met people who have college degrees and little work experience that have made great employees, I have seen military vets who have turned out to be almost useless. I have met 22 year olds who have had their heads on straight and I have met 40 year olds who were never going to figure it out.

The original poster's question is not one where there is a single "fits all" answer, the only answer that may fit might be : It depends on the individual.

Edited March 8, 2012 by 10512

[Guest alsfirefighter]

It is my opinion that in the age of the "easy degree", a Bachelor's degree, and I would even proffer a master's degree, means less and less. A bachelor's degree today is what a high school diploma was 20 years ago. A bachelor's degree does not guarantee that someone has the maturity level or required decision making required for said job. This is precisely why many agencies look for that "well-rounded" individual. Just because you went to school for 4 years does not necessarily show a pattern of sound decision making and judgement. Merely, it shows you have started something and saw it through to the end. I have been in and out of college for the past 10 years of my life. I only have an A.A.S. and I'm 3/4 complete with my Bachelor's. However, in my last 10 years as a FF, Medic, Trooper, and Pilot I can honestly say those were MUCH more valuable experiences than a piece of paper which shows that I started something and saw it through to the end.

I have attained many "hard to get jobs", two in particular, (Trooper and Army Pilot) without the degree. Whenever I have interviewed, I let my experience, knowledge, record of successes, and sound judgement speak louder than anything else. Granted, I have had to work my way up, so to speak, but in the end, the reward has been worth all the hard work and diligence. I have learned to be patient and things eventually work themselves out if you want it bad enough.

To those of you intent on going to college and trying to obtain some public safety position: I would highly recommend that you do not limit yourself to your chosen career field. By this I mean steer clear of those criminal justice and fire science degrees. Speaking with many recruiters, they would prefer to see an individual with a non-related degree. Their premise is that THEY will teach you what you need to know to do the job safely and efficiently. Set yourself up for success in the future and consider your post-retirement options. This is especially important in today's budget-strapped times where our jobs are not nearly as secure as they used to be.

I would have to ask if you would agree though that your experiences with your successes, which are noble and I give you my utmost respect as we share similar experiences in gaining holds in our lives, is the exception rather then the rule in today's society.

I have posted on here and discuss to my students who come to me for advise on higher education the same exact thing that you say, which is get a degree in anything but criminal justice and fire science. There are no guarantees in this field and your better off working on something you can do while waiting to get hired or have a second career during your service or bet set up for when you retire. You'd be shocked how many deflated looks I get or the "yeah but" comments back. I know of a lot of young people walking around with fire science and criminal justice degrees who are working menial jobs and highly qualified volunteers with nothing more then a piece of paper on the wall.

As far as education goes, while there are "easy" degrees out there, I for one have noticed that a large majority of the workforce also realizes this and it really comes down to "what's in a name." I am working to finish my bachelors and to move on to my masters and I for one did not go for the easy route with names of schools we all know but programs in established highly recognizable, well known and established educational institutions. I know we're more mature but as I got older I looked for college courses and professors who would challenge me and make me work my a** off. After all I'm paying them to learn and be a better person and performer. It is still difficult to see kids today complain about work load or waste money on college.

Bottom line is your education truly begins...when your learning ends.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Truthfully right now I'm apt to believe someone who worked at Subway for 4 years likely is more prepared than someone who's taken a 4 year degree program regardless of the field but never worked or lived outside of home. There's more to life experience than firefighting/EMS experience. In fact very often, those experiences can be harmful depending on where you gained it. Just being part of the American workforce, understanding why taxpayers often feel the way they do, not taking a job for granted are some of the things I'd like a new employee to understand. Often working in the private sector leads to an appreciation of some of the fundamentals of public service.

I disagree to a point. Most of you know I am not part of the kinder, gentler fire service nor one that finds the majority of traditions useful. We are mired in tradition and the "well this is the way its always been, this is how it was for me." If all businesses tuned to this practice, our world would be screwed. The difference between success of the subway employee experience and the college degree person...is YOU. Not one person has mentioned how management and the management process, system and the orientation period all new hires go through can influence in both positive and negative ways. Are you utilizing the employee in a positive constructive way which will make them more invested. Will you in most aspects be able to do this 100%...no not in our business...some $hit details fall to the junior guy...but there are ways to do it and use them to the max. Good supervisors get the most out of the people no matter what...but in emergency services I see far too many complain about them, try to push against the societal influence brick wall and talk about "if I ever did that." Well guess what...society changes influence personalities and bring cultural changes. You either understand it and respect it and learn how to get efficiency out of those people..or keep complaining about it. I for one will alway weigh each individual in a fair manner based on all. But I am for one a proponent of college credit requirement for entry level positions. In my life experience they may lack in some areas, but I will take the level of education, dedication that takes to be successful and to be honest...I find them to be engaging, bring fresh ideas and tend to be better spoken.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

x635, this is a very interesting post...

I definitely agree that the new hire who has had life experience appreciates these jobs more when they

come on. A young member who has never held a job and comes on these jobs , (some starting at $80-100k) just

think that it works this way at all jobs,whereas the member with the experience knows better.This is not an

attack on the young guys coming on the job, but from what I have noticed from the past two classes that

have come on my department , these guys hae a sense of "it's all about me", and a "sense of entitlement".

And dont get me started on the texting, as youre explaining to them what to do..(I cant stand that).

Sorry but the statement you're making you can't quantify. Its of my experience and my opinion that there are bigger influences beyond life experience of who "appreciates these jobs more when they come on." I could make the statement that those that have life experience tend to feel they can get over more or not have to put out as much because they've "been there." I understand your point...but I'm not warming up to the language used.

I pointed out in my previous post about the sense of entitlement. Nothing makes me laugh more then to hear these comments. Guess what...the guys with 10 to 20 years on...were saying similar things about you. Society goes through changes approximately every 10 to 20 years. From the baby boomers, to Gen X, to netsters to whatever todays generation is being called...all have their quirks. Until the fire service (I can only speak for them as other then the military that is my life experience with management) recognizes that our training for management level positions is lacking in the area of personal dynamics, and that's if we can ever get over ourselves and embrace it, this will always be the same. Fortunately there are departments out there...which tend to be out of NY, but interact with a few that are getting this and have dynamic management that works well with this while maintaining the paramilitary discipline framework that is important in our fields. And guess what...the majority of them have higher education..not life experience or just life experience. Even the military with all of its customs and traditions, and the Marine Corps has probably the most, embraced this years ago and through different enlisted promotion levels when going through corporal courses, NCO academy, Staff NCO academy discusses generation trends. But they also have boot camps, candidate schools and so on to instill base line mentalities and understandings that some things are what they are.

At one point many said rock n roll was evil. Those who were raised on rock n roll said hip hop and the metal I grew up on wasn't music and noise. Sociologist put me at the tail end of Generation X...but early Generation Xer's complained of my age group that we were over achievers, didn't respect established norms of those before us and wanted the world. Now my generation and middle gen X says kids today have a sense of entitlement. Good...and you're right they do....so now what are you going to do to get the most out of them?

[antiquefirelt 994]

I disagree to a point. Most of you know I am not part of the kinder, gentler fire service nor one that finds the majority of traditions useful. We are mired in tradition and the "well this is the way its always been, this is how it was for me." If all businesses tuned to this practice, our world would be screwed. The difference between success of the subway employee experience and the college degree person...is YOU. Not one person has mentioned how management and the management process, system and the orientation period all new hires go through can influence in both positive and negative ways. Are you utilizing the employee in a positive constructive way which will make them more invested. Will you in most aspects be able to do this 100%...no not in our business...some $hit details fall to the junior guy...but there are ways to do it and use them to the max. Good supervisors get the most out of the people no matter what...but in emergency services I see far too many complain about them, try to push against the societal influence brick wall and talk about "if I ever did that." Well guess what...society changes influence personalities and bring cultural changes. You either understand it and respect it and learn how to get efficiency out of those people..or keep complaining about it. I for one will alway weigh each individual in a fair manner based on all. But I am for one a proponent of college credit requirement for entry level positions. In my life experience they may lack in some areas, but I will take the level of education, dedication that takes to be successful and to be honest...I find them to be engaging, bring fresh ideas and tend to be better spoken.

I find what you said hard to disagree with, my point is that I'd prefer new employees to have some work experience or other life experience that shows they can make it in the real world. Maybe we expect too much sometimes, but it seems that those who have not been out of the house for any time seem more inclined to take things for granted, are more likely to have a sense of entitlement and are harder to motivate. Given that we do still get motivated self starters that are highly effective, our only issue is to ensure we're screening better to ensure this success.

Maybe I'm getting a bit crusty, but my shift seems to have been selected as the last stop before the door for a few individuals. We try and give them a fresh start, but it's up to them to erase any stigmas they carry with them. What I've heard from those leaving is that our expectations are too high, though the other 90% of employees seem to be quite happy. Those that fail tend to do so on EMS paperwork or problems determined in QA. All are given assistance, remedial training and any tools they need, but in the end we will not compromise on the quality of care or work done in the field. The other issues of entitlement and motivation usually are addressed by peers. The good ones tend to get all the peer help they need, those who want to kick back and blame everyone but themselves tend to be on their own.

As for higher education? One can never have to much knowledge, but I've yet to see a case in our FD where the degree made the person a better employee. The individual personality traits are much more indicative of the quality work they'll provide. Now, when someone possesses great individual traits and a higher education, there's little stopping them.