Has DES Outgrown Their Facilities?

[x635 4,066]

Maybe it's chronic poor planning, but has DES outgrown it's new facilities?

It seems the Support Services building and "warehouse" are already too small, as I've heard a lot of expensive equipment is still housed outside in the elements.

And, 60 Control HAS to be getting pretty cramped with the higher call volume, increased staffing, and additional technologies......any word on a new facility for them?

I don't know the current economic situation in Westchester's political scene, nor do I know what the priorities are, but it seems to be as far as I remember and have been told, that they (DES) has never been ahead of the curve with plenty of space to expand into. By the time they plan to put the shovel in the ground, the facility is already obsolete, or overtaken over by another DES division.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

It seems the Support Services building and "warehouse" are already too small, as I've heard a lot of expensive equipment is still housed outside in the elements.

What equipment is in the elements ?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Since the county had plans to expand it (auditorium, more classrooms, etc.) and they were cancelled due to lack of funding...I think everyone argrees they have out grown the space. But is it due to poor planning or poor funding? Since plans were inplace 3+ years back, I'd say funding is the issue and its not going to get better anytime soon.

[MoFire390 118]

Since the county had plans to expand it (auditorium, more classrooms, etc.) and they were cancelled due to lack of funding...I think everyone argrees they have out grown the space. But is it due to poor planning or poor funding? Since plans were inplace 3+ years back, I'd say funding is the issue and its not going to get better anytime soon.

Couldn't agree with you more. Just not sure if the funding will ever become available.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Maybe it's chronic poor planning, but has DES outgrown it's new facilities?

It seems the Support Services building and "warehouse" are already too small, as I've heard a lot of expensive equipment is still housed outside in the elements.

And, 60 Control HAS to be getting pretty cramped with the higher call volume, increased staffing, and additional technologies......any word on a new facility for them?

I don't know the current economic situation in Westchester's political scene, nor do I know what the priorities are, but it seems to be as far as I remember and have been told, that they (DES) has never been ahead of the curve with plenty of space to expand into. By the time they plan to put the shovel in the ground, the facility is already obsolete, or overtaken over by another DES division.

"chronic" poor planning? Maybe you can get more in depth with what the "chronic poor" and planning you have in mind.

I'd also like to know what equipment is still being housed in the elements?

New facilities? From what I understand its difficult to get funding to maintain what is there...I doubt there is any "new" in any vocabulary right now.

[x635 4,066]

"chronic" poor planning? Maybe you can get more in depth with what the "chronic poor" and planning you have in mind.

My views start in 1993, when I first started training at the facility.

Do you remember when Westchester County Fire Control, with only Gordon and Marilyn as full time staff?

Do you remember when the new addition was built? The disaster that was?

Do you remember when a warehouse in a nearby executive park was purchased for DES, and the County decided to use it as a surplus warehouse?

Do you remember when they had to use the old Anthrax mail trailer and convert it into the the REMAC office?

Do you remember when Dep Chief Gerardi had to build temporary partions in the old large classroom to accomodate new staff?

Do you remember when the County planned a new Support Services facility that was already past capacity when it was planned?

Do you remember the oil leak from the oil pit that it took to really get the propane props?

Do you remember when instructors slowly lost any proper prep or meeting areas in the facility?

Does the training center have the capability to hold a large conference which was one of the purposes of building the SS building?

Have Dutchess and Rockland's facilities ALWAYS been way ahead of Westchester?

Do you remember all the leadership changes that have pushed DES in all different directions?

Do you remember the summers where 60 Control didn't have air conditioning?

Do you remember when 60 Control went down, compelty, because a redundant power system wasn't properly planned, maintained, or spec'd?

Do you remember the security gate which never worked right?

Or configured right so large apparatus could get in or out easily?

Did you note any real bathroom, rest, or instructional areas near the area where the training was taking place?

Do you remember how the SCBA bottles used to have to be lugged all the way back to the main building to be refilled, and all the time that took

[dadbo46 50]

See the various County Capital Projects pertaining to repairs/improvements at the Fire Training Facility:

http://www3.westchestergov.com/images/stories/budget/2012/2012AdoptedCapital_SectionC1.pdf

[x129K 1,393]

Dutchess hasnt always been so awesome...when I started in 1990, it was pretty plain..with not a whole lot to offer in terms of interesting, complex, or technical training.

Over the past two decades we have been very blessed to have the people who were involved in making it what it is now. It took many years and a ton of sweat and hard work..and I can tell you - those of us that use it - APPRECIATE IT.

[x635 4,066]

See the various County Capital Projects pertaining to repairs/improvements at the Fire Training Facility

Interesting document. Many of these projects have been in the pipeline and talked about for years. I'll believe it when I see it, and when it actually built and works properly.

I'm not trashing DES, I'm just saying that whenever they start getting ahead of the curve, they get beaten back.

60 Control and the equipment they have now is only what it is now because of leadership changes, such as the promotions. They still need a bigger facility and better pay, since they truly are the flagship of DES. That needs to be first and foremost.

As far as training, it's great because of the dedicated and experienced instructors.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Dutchess hasnt always been so awesome...when I started in 1990, it was pretty plain..with not a whole lot to offer in terms of interesting, complex, or technical training.

Over the past two decades we have been very blessed to have the people who were involved in making it what it is now. It took many years and a ton of sweat and hard work..and I can tell you - those of us that use it - APPRECIATE IT.

In the 1980's (& I think early 1990's) Dutchess did not have a water supply and the tower was infested to the point that it was unusable. With the help of some local FF's we cleaned it out for a series of classes, then no one used it for a year and we recleaned it. (when I say clean, I mean it took a ladder pipe and it was still very nasty).

Nice to hear its improved

[x129K 1,393]

In the 1980's (& I think early 1990's) Dutchess did not have a water supply and the tower was infested to the point that it was unusable. With the help of some local FF's we cleaned it out for a series of classes, then no one used it for a year and we recleaned it. (when I say clean, I mean it took a ladder pipe and it was still very nasty).

Nice to hear its improved

It has for sure....complete with a shed full of hand tools, saws, etc...I cant thank these guys enough...

[Guest alsfirefighter]

My views start in 1993, when I first started training at the facility.

Do you remember when Westchester County Fire Control, with only Gordon and Marilyn as full time staff?

Do you remember when the new addition was built? The disaster that was?

Do you remember when a warehouse in a nearby executive park was purchased for DES, and the County decided to use it as a surplus warehouse?

Do you remember when they had to use the old Anthrax mail trailer and convert it into the the REMAC office?

Do you remember when Dep Chief Gerardi had to build temporary partions in the old large classroom to accomodate new staff?

Do you remember when the County planned a new Support Services facility that was already past capacity when it was planned?

Do you remember the oil leak from the oil pit that it took to really get the propane props?

Do you remember when instructors slowly lost any proper prep or meeting areas in the facility?

Does the training center have the capability to hold a large conference which was one of the purposes of building the SS building?

Have Dutchess and Rockland's facilities ALWAYS been way ahead of Westchester?

Do you remember all the leadership changes that have pushed DES in all different directions?

Do you remember the summers where 60 Control didn't have air conditioning?

Do you remember when 60 Control went down, compelty, because a redundant power system wasn't properly planned, maintained, or spec'd?

Do you remember the security gate which never worked right?

Or configured right so large apparatus could get in or out easily?

Did you note any real bathroom, rest, or instructional areas near the area where the training was taking place?

Do you remember how the SCBA bottles used to have to be lugged all the way back to the main building to be refilled, and all the time that took

OK. That's alot. And no I don't for one think your trashing DES. So with that said.

For one...Rockland has cut their training tremendously in light of their economic situation. Second, I don't and have never felt Dutchess's facility was ahead of ours in the past 7 to 10 years. Furthermore, Dutchess has a very limited amount of CFI's and doesn't come near the training hours delivered through DES.

I'm glad you can go back to 1993 but I for one can't. So I've heard of the issues with the addition...but what does that have to do with today? Couldn't tell you the first thing about a warehouse..but I don't count that on poor planning.

The old REMAC office was what it was...no funding for additional offices or space. Which half was given to the instructors as an area. When I first got there, we had no real area of our own. So I'm not sure what area we "slowly" lost..but we did gain.

The oil pits were not in use any longer when I started doing training there. The bottom line is we have excellent propane props now.

As far as leadership changes I've only known of 3 commissioners since 2000, I've worked under 2 of them.

As far as 60 going down..I remember this once...and my understanding of why it occurred appears to be different then yours and its not appropriate for me to get into my understanding here.

The gate...its mechanical..and the thing opens and closes several times a day. I don't find that poor planning. If it malfunctions..it gets fixed...I also can't recall an apparatus not being able to fit.

Not sure what you mean by where training was taking place...there is a bathroom outside...and there are bleachers..the rest areas are inside where there is air conditioning.

I'm not saying there aren't things I'd like to see...but I also understand the economy is in the toilet...funding is much less then what it was. I also want to point out that the current commissioner is very dedicated to ensure every dollar of funding for training is used exactly for that....courses and training facilitation. Westchester delivers the most Firefighter 1 courses in the state and we have flip flopped with Erie county as the 1st or 2nd in the state in overall training delivered. Why? Because of proper planning of having the instructor resources we have.

[ex-commish 490]

My 2 cents for what it is worth...I was hired as an instructor there around 2000 when it was going through it's transistion and worked under 3 commissioners. Over the years progress was made and more instructors were being hired so more courses were available. More props, equipment, etc. We would tell the powers to be we need this and we need that. We got it. I can remember being told at an instructors meeting that the money is there.

Today it is a different animal. Money is tight and the 9th floor in White Plains isn't dishing it out like it used to.

[gamewell45 258]

My views start in 1993, when I first started training at the facility.

Do you remember when Westchester County Fire Control, with only Gordon and Marilyn as full time staff?

Do you remember when the new addition was built? The disaster that was?

Do you remember when a warehouse in a nearby executive park was purchased for DES, and the County decided to use it as a surplus warehouse?

Do you remember when they had to use the old Anthrax mail trailer and convert it into the the REMAC office?

Do you remember when Dep Chief Gerardi had to build temporary partions in the old large classroom to accomodate new staff?

Do you remember when the County planned a new Support Services facility that was already past capacity when it was planned?

Do you remember the oil leak from the oil pit that it took to really get the propane props?

Do you remember when instructors slowly lost any proper prep or meeting areas in the facility?

Does the training center have the capability to hold a large conference which was one of the purposes of building the SS building?

Have Dutchess and Rockland's facilities ALWAYS been way ahead of Westchester?

Do you remember all the leadership changes that have pushed DES in all different directions?

Do you remember the summers where 60 Control didn't have air conditioning?

Do you remember when 60 Control went down, compelty, because a redundant power system wasn't properly planned, maintained, or spec'd?

Do you remember the security gate which never worked right?

Or configured right so large apparatus could get in or out easily?

Did you note any real bathroom, rest, or instructional areas near the area where the training was taking place?

Do you remember how the SCBA bottles used to have to be lugged all the way back to the main building to be refilled, and all the time that took

I remember when 60 Control was staffed by volunteers and parkway police when they were at Hawthorne Traffic Circle.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

What equipment is in the elements ?

anyone ???

[Newburgher 241]

anyone ???

Bueller........ Bueller.......... Bueller

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I did miss one question with an answer.....I remember lugging SCBA cylinders to the main building...in fact I make my students still do it...as the one outside is a 2 cylinder fill and is great for during the day fill when needed...however the majority of time I make them still lug them into the main building as I can fill 6 there. So the time taken to bring them inside is made up in the volume able to be filled.

[BIGRED1 71]

in fact I make my students still do it...as the one outside is a 2 cylinder fill and is great for during the day fill when needed...however the majority of time I make them still lug them into the main building as I can fill 6 there. So the time taken to bring them inside is made up in the volume able to be filled.

It builds character. Teaches them that firefighting is a hard job. Even when your not in a burning building, your still working. I remember the many times having to lug two bottles to get filled during FAST in the summer. Meanwhile the instructors took the gator over. I think the facility is great and enjoy using it. Could it be improved? Sure but what placed couldn't be improved. There is new technologies coming around everyday. Would be great to have a flashover simulator but it is not in the cards right now. Maybe next year, maybe never. Just use what they got, train hard, train often, train safe.

[BIGRED1 71]

what equipment is still being housed in the elements

Does he mean like the roof props near mask confidence? There really is nothing outside. All the hand tools are in the well protected shed, the ladders are all inside the tower (from what I remember), Even the door simulator is inside. When was the last time you were at the training center? I mean the rail car is fine outside, all the propane trees are ok, Really the only thing that is effected by the weather in the smoke house basement.

[x635 4,066]

60 Control needs a larger, dedicated facility. This should have been in the plan a long, long time ago.

Is every bay in the new Support Service building filled? Are Engine 7 and Ladder 7 housed there? Has the old apparatus floor in the main building been converted into training space an audotorium which was the plan when the SS building was constructed?

Are there generators, flatbed trucks, and other utlities housed outside?

I agree, DES has made strides in progress from the past, however the facilites have been poorly planned, fragmented, and outgrown.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Are there generators, flatbed trucks, and other utlities housed outside?

Yes.

[SOUSGT 357]

Do you remember when 60 Control was County Control and located in a back room at the County Police HQ?

With a listing of departments on the wall and a card file?

[x635 4,066]

Do you remember when 60 Control was County Control and located in a back room at the County Police HQ?

With a listing of departments on the wall and a card file?

That was WAY before my time. Wasn't 60 Control initially staffed by volunteers out of White Plains Fire HQ, then to County PD, then to the room that's now offices downstairs by the locker rooms, and then into the current facility?

[BBBMF 158]

From my visits to the Fire training center, it seems to work for the time being. WCFTC has many great fire instructors who are able to use what they have, in addition to their own personal experience and knowledge to train new and old firefighters how to get the job done. All the vehicles are housed inside the buildings and granted it may be a little tight, that really does not matter. 60 control does an excellent job receiving and dispatching runs and the instructors are producing.

We're in a tight economy and we don't need to start planning projects which there is no money to allocate towards. You left, why do you care so much...Come back and help fix it if it's really bothering you.