NYS DOH policy regarding junior members riding ambulance?

[miltonfire39 8]

Is anyone aware of any state policy that effects the number of youth members or junior members allowed to be on a crew? Any help would be appreciated thanks in advance.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

google "youth ambulance new york state". Many good informative links pop up.

Google is your friend....

Edited February 29, 2012 by SRS131EMTFF

[sympathomedic 383]

If you go to the state website, all the state policies are listed. Search NYS DOH BEMS and you should find it. Lots of neat stuff buried in that site, like NYS says do not use lights and sirens unless you believe the call you are on to be a true life and limb emergency.

When I was a junior member of Larchmont VAC, the agency rule was 1 junior per crew, and no going to Greenwhich Hospital- they said a minor could not cross a state line without the parents presence or permission. Then again, we thought foam rubber collars stabilized c-spines.

[helicopper 1,050]

If you go to the state website, all the state policies are listed. Search NYS DOH BEMS and you should find it. Lots of neat stuff buried in that site, like NYS says do not use lights and sirens unless you believe the call you are on to be a true life and limb emergency.

When I was a junior member of Larchmont VAC, the agency rule was 1 junior per crew, and no going to Greenwhich Hospital- they said a minor could not cross a state line without the parents presence or permission. Then again, we thought foam rubber collars stabilized c-spines.

I remember those collars...

[EMT-7035 4]

Mount Kisco VAC traditionally rides with 1 (or none) juniors, but as for a limit, we've never come across the situation. Shifts were always scheduled in advance so there were no overlapping, I'm not sure if this was done out of protocol or just the desire to teach one member at a time.

[v85 212]

I don't recall ever seeing a state policy on anything like that, other than the fact that you need a driver and EMT on every call, and that there is an obscure section in the Arts and Cultural Affairs law that allows anyone 15+ to "work" on a volunteer ambulance. Don't ask why it is in Arts and Cultural Affairs, probably says something about the level of competence in the statehouse.

35.07. Unlawful exhibitions. 1. It shall be unlawful for any person

to employ, use, or exhibit any child under sixteen years of age, or for

a parent, guardian or employer to consent to or to refuse to restrain

such child in engaging or acting:

(e) In any practice or exhibition or place dangerous or injurious to

the life, limb, health or morals of such child provided, however, that

the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to service as a member

of a certified volunteer ambulance service under the supervision of an

emergency medical technician as provided in article thirty of the public

health law by youthful volunteers at least fifteen years of age who hold

a current American Red Cross advanced first aid and emergency care card.

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$ACA35.07$$@TXACA035.07+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=EXPLORER+&TOKEN=23844272+&TARGET=VIEW

I would imagine though that departments have there own policies

[x635 4,066]

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations.

Google is your friend....

No, coming here with fellow peers that may have the knowledge and experience is your friend. They has a search engine that displays a multitude of results.Including this site. I've Googled things and then came here for further information and opinions.

[OoO 24]

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations.

Not sure where you're going with this, but I'm an advocate for junior EMS programs.

I got my start in EMS at 16 and developed a passion for it. At 16 I got the opportunity to learn and see a lot. If I waited until 18 to get involved, I would not have had the same amount of time to put into it.

I agree that digression should be used in letting junior members respond to certain calls (those involving peers, EDPs, etc) but I think these programs are important to developing the future of EMS.

[grumpyff 1,159]

I would have to agree with OoO. I joined the FD at 16, and the VAC at 17. I think that what is expected, and what may be encountered needs to be discussed with prospective junior members, and their parent/guardian. Let both know that EMS members have the possibility of seeing blood, dead human bodies, broken bones, performing CPR and other things not normally seen. Also let them know there is no shame/embarrassment if they think they can not handle the sight of such things. After approval for membership the EMT in charge has the final say. If you see the junior member is having a hard time with something on a call, put them in the front of the bus, in the fly car, or get PD to take them back to the station if possible. My current department is having this discussion now, as we have two CFR's under the age of 18 who want to ride the ambulance, but current policy says no. The EMS LT is against it, "as they may see something they shouldn't", and it gets more personal than the FD side of operations. I can see her point, but I have worked at many extrication jobs as junior FD member having to bring cribbing, tools, etc up to the car and seeing patients in the vehicles. It can be plenty personal setting up cribbing while hearing a patient pinned in a car asking about the passenger next to them, who is now deceased. I have also seen plenty of "adult" members freeze on calls at things they have seen while junior members still function. Even on my job as a police officer, some cops can't handle seeing blood, and other nasty injuries the human body can sustain when involved in a car accident, hit by a train, stabbing, etc. To others, like myself, can handle a man under (person run over by a train) and then go out to breakfast and get an egg and cheese on a roll with salt pepper and ketchup. There is a reason why militaries recruit younger members, they think they are invincible, and will do things without thinking it will effect them.

[RNEMT26 40]

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations.

- Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you..... I started as a CFR at 16, and I saw a lot of really awful stuff. And it taught me a lot about myself, the fragility of life and a host of other things.

Was it difficult to bear witness to that stuff?...Of course, some of what we see and experience are things most people wont ever see or encounter in their life. I agree with the fact that some people may not be able to handle it and they either need to mature or be taught about to deal with that stuff and not compartmentalize it like so many people like to do with the thought that it's the right way to deal with emotionally difficult situations. I think that younger members maybe more at risk for ineffective coping mechanisms because a lot of them (like myself at one point) do not want to seem that they 'can't handle it' or are being 'weak'. We as senior members need to help them out and talk to them about it and let them know that it's ok cry/be upset/ or sad about things. And that these feelings are normal and expressing them is far better than suppressing them.

[EMT-7035 4]

I agree that digression should be used in letting junior members respond to certain calls (those involving peers, EDPs, etc) but I think these programs are important to developing the future of EMS.

I also started riding at a VAC at 17 and thus I was able to begin training as an EMT and tested about 2 weeks after I turned 18. We have a similar policy in that any crew chief or line officer can sideline a junior member for whatever reason. I personally was sidelined on an extrication just before I turned 18.

As also mentioned, I had a lot of time to ride when I was still in High School after I had been cleared as a crew chief and I was able to ride a lot and cover a lot of shifts, and I must say, it has been making me wonder if I want to pursue a EMS Career (I am currently Computer Science) and I would not have had these thoughts if I hadn't been able to get fully involved as early as I did.

[Buff93 8]

In MY VAC you can begin to ride at the age of 16, the youth member is NOT able to have a green light or ride after 7pm or before 7am and not to exceed set number of hours during the school week, and of course after being cleared by the VAC.

I joined at the age of 16, got my CFR then became an EMT (current status). I encourage VACs to have youth programs it is a great way to gain leadership skills, people skills (working with nasty people/patients), life experience, seeing expired patients,going to MCI's, doing CPR, EDP's/Suicides, interacting with elderly patients, your peers, I've done it all and I'm only 19yrs old. I do have to say it has brought me to where I am today and has changed the way I look at many situations and life in general.

As many have said it is up to the crew chief (the EMT) as to what the youth member can do/see. It's all about good judgement (ie: if you go to an arrest CPR I/P)if you see the youth member becoming uneasy at the scene, ask them to get the stretcher or a blanket then seat them in the front seat or the fly car. After the call, talk with them and assure them that it's okay that they are upset. I have sat through debriefing and the best way to handle terrible scenes is to TALK! with your crew.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations.

No, coming here with fellow peers that may have the knowledge and experience is your friend. They has a search engine that displays a multitude of results.Including this site. I've Googled things and then came here for further information and opinions.

I guess its the word "some" that saves your comment but any of the agencies I've been a member of and a couple I still deal with have solid policies regarding their activities.

Also I find it curious as to what you would deem as the "some" of the EMS situations. I have yet to have a younger junior corps member have any issue on any call that I've been involved with and are often the most eager to learn. Considering that we now try 12-14 year olds as adults in our country...the "f" word is common place at ages of 10 or 11 in areas and the state of television, movies and video games...I find it hard to believe that in today soceity a 16 year old pretty much couldn't handle most of what is thrown at them.

[ny10570 745]

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations.

Sorry, have to pile on here. Nothing I have seen in my years of EMS has been as bad as the ped struck I saw in my 20's. Circumstances are everything. Seeing someone that was mutilated by a train was not nearly as hard as watching someone deteriorate waiting for help. The feeling of helplessness had a much greater impact. Being actively involved in patient care puts the entire incident in a different perspective that makes terrible things easier to process.

[helicopper 1,050]

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations.

I think this "blanket" statement is incomplete and understand why everyone responded the way they did. Now, if the statement was as below you'd have my agreement.

Anyone under the age of 18 is not emotionally equipped to handle some EMS situations unless they are part of an organized and structured EMS agency program with appropriate oversight and supervision.

I too started in EMS as a teenager and these opportunities are great for people who have interest in police, fire, and EMS. I agree that without the benefit of someone to ask questions or discuss things with some of what you'll see in EMS can be difficult even problematic for a developing teenager. That's why they need to be part of an organization that will provide them with the proper preparation before and support after such incidents.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I'd have to echo what Chris and others have said. I saw some pretty crazy stuff between my time as a Junior Firefighter and a Police Explorer. Homicide scenes, drownings, etc. My agencies always called in a CISD team for the really intense scenes and my officers were always available to talk to if anyone felt they needed help.

Honestly I think it was a good experience for me. This is the world we live in, and trying to sugar coat it isn't going to help anyone. Learning to process these types of incidents and be able to put things in perspective is one of the most useful lessons I learned during my time as a Junior/Explorer.

[Buff93 8]

I'd have to echo what Chris and others have said. I saw some pretty crazy stuff between my time as a Junior Firefighter and a Police Explorer. Homicide scenes, drownings, etc. My agencies always called in a CISD team for the really intense scenes and my officers were always available to talk to if anyone felt they needed help.

Honestly I think it was a good experience for me. This is the world we live in, and trying to sugar coat it isn't going to help anyone. Learning to process these types of incidents and be able to put things in perspective is one of the most useful lessons I learned during my time as a Junior/Explorer.

I agree, the things I've seen(ie: Taconic Accident in Jully of 2009(When I was 16 yrs old), a shooting of a young man, suicides, horrible car accidents, Mother's drop in front of their young children)has definitely driven my "EMS Heart". I truly believe that things should not be sugar coated, I feel like we live in a society that rather be lied to than told the truth. But good post on your behalf!

[PFDRes47cue 653]

In MY VAC you can begin to ride at the age of 16, the youth member is NOT able to have a green light or ride after 7pm or before 7am and not to exceed set number of hours during the school week, and of course after being cleared by the VAC.

I joined at the age of 16, got my CFR then became an EMT (current status). I encourage VACs to have youth programs it is a great way to gain leadership skills, people skills (working with nasty people/patients), life experience, seeing expired patients,going to MCI's, doing CPR, EDP's/Suicides, interacting with elderly patients, your peers, I've done it all and I'm only 19yrs old. I do have to say it has brought me to where I am today and has changed the way I look at many situations and life in general.

As many have said it is up to the crew chief (the EMT) as to what the youth member can do/see. It's all about good judgement (ie: if you go to an arrest CPR I/P)if you see the youth member becoming uneasy at the scene, ask them to get the stretcher or a blanket then seat them in the front seat or the fly car. After the call, talk with them and assure them that it's okay that they are upset. I have sat through debriefing and the best way to handle terrible scenes is to TALK! with your crew.

Talking young members through "tough" incidents is one of the best things a co-worker can do for the person. Initiating contact is a good thing to because the younger member may very likely not feel comfortable stepping forward to seek guidance.

I do not think anyone has ever or will ever see it all. Keep sharp, focused and up to date. You never know when you will be confronted with a new situation that requires you to use your skills.

Nice post Buff.

[Goose 188]

It all depends on the leadership of the organization and the culture they want to foster. There are youth members who have been more help to me than credentialed members, there are some that are victims of their own organization as they are just thrown on a bus, then there are youth members who think this is some sort of game and screw around. I had the privilege to having been taken under senior career providers wings - their lessons are relevant to me every tour i work - i try to pass those same lessons along to those who WANT to or are WILLING to learn.