New FDNY Squad and Engine Bids

[x635 4,066]

In the latest edition of FAJ, it was announced that Seagrave was the only bidder on a contract to replace all the FDNY Squad company Engines.

I'm suprised Ferrara didn't even bid.

[Anesti 329]

I wonder if they go with the same cabs as the engines.

[goon16 155]

Thank god seagrave was the only one I'm sick of the ferreras already

Edited February 27, 2012 by goon16

[pump305 53]

Has FDNY started any bids for new tillers?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Has FDNY started any bids for new tillers?

The contract for tillers was awarded to Seagrave in August.

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php/topic/42968-seagrave-recieves-order-from-fdny-to-build-8-new-tillers/page__p__245320__hl__tiller__fromsearch__1#entry245320

[x635 4,066]

I've been told that FDNY is currently considering three bids for the new Engine contract, which will be over 100+ engines over a certain period of time.

I believe KME was the low bidder, with Ferrara being next, and Seagrave being third.

I see FDNY returning to Seagrave if they are able to meet the warranty requirements.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Ferrara and Seagrave are the only real bidders here. Unless KME is willing to build a new cab/chassis from the ground up, I don't see them able to meet the spec the city has laid out now and previously. Seagrave, of course, has a long track record. Ferrara has made recent inroads and built a new cab/chassis to meet the city's specs. Ferrara has also proven able to meet warranty requirements as they won the recent bid for 40+ 100' rearmounts. It's going to come down to who's more motivated to win the contract as both are capable.

My company has a Seagrave coming up for replacement. It can't come soon enough! It's got almost 70,000 miles on it, the pumps leak like a sieve, it's a bucket of rust and the ride is spine compressing. It doesn't much matter to me who makes the rig as long as they make a few improvements to interior space, durability and ride. Ride might not sound so important, but when you ride in it to building inspections and other duties, aside from runs, it can be a long day of bouncing around. It gets old. The new Seagrave engines are quiet, roomy and smooth. They have a great deal of interior space for tool storage, but the seating arrangement isn't prefect. The officers seat is really tight, however. The hose bed seems to be a touch higher, not a good thing. The other radical changes only really apply to the chauffeur. Double the pump capacity, a multitude of different inlets and no more draw handles, they're rotary type knobs. There have been a couple of issues with the newer Seagrave engines. I'm told that several have had long stints O.O.S. for transmission failure. Hopefully whomever builds the next round will get it right because getting a new rig and spending the next few months switching back and for to a spare is no good.

Edited February 27, 2012 by M' Ave

[mfc2257 464]

I only know enough about FDNY spec's to be dangerous... But out of curiosity, why wouldn't the KME Severe Service Chassis suit FDNY's needs assuming they were willing to build the body and pump configuration to match that of current rigs.

[Guest truck12345]

What is the average life span for FDNY rigs?

[M' Ave 1,466]

I only know enough about FDNY spec's to be dangerous... But out of curiosity, why wouldn't the KME Severe Service Chassis suit FDNY's needs assuming they were willing to build the body and pump configuration to match that of current rigs.

Everything about the cab Seagrave has built for the FDNY is unique to what is more typically built by seagrave. They are narrow, short and everything from the fenders over the wheels being very slim , to the door handles being recessed is geared towards building a rig that can fit in firehouses build in the late 1800's and operate on tight NYC streets. I dont' know if you've ever been up close to a NYC rig, but in general, you'll find them to be pretty small. I know nothing about the "Severe Service Chassis", but the city wants everything to be very specific and relatively interchangeable from rig to rig. There's to many out there to require different parts and maintenance knowledge.

What is the average life span for FDNY rigs?

They are supposed to be replaced every 10 years, sometimes 11 or 12 go by, but 10 is whats in the contract.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

They are supposed to be replaced every 10 years, sometimes 11 or 12 go by, but 10 is whats in the contract.

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the assumption that FDNY rigs were 8 years front line, 3 years as a spare, 2 years as a reserve then sold for scrap.

[stixx 7]

what about the squads when are they getting replace.

[JBE 328]

It's 10 frontline, but like M said, some have gone on longer than 10. Then, I'm not sure how long in spare pool/reserve before it's disposed of. From what I've seen in the reserve pool, most of the reserve engines are late 90's/early 00's vintage. Apples and oranges, but I think the powers that be should ask LAFD and LA County FD how those KME's have been working out for them.

Edited February 27, 2012 by JBE

[Mac8146 61]

As per Union contracts rigs are 10 full years before mandatory replacement, they then go into the spare or reserve pool for a few years depending on orders and so on. spares and reserves usually last another 5 to 7 years. The 93 94 seagraves are being sold now as surplus i think and we still have some 98,99,00,01 and 02 seagrave pumpers as spares or reserves.The rearmount situation is worse due to gap in purchasing and delivery, some 94,95 rearmounts are still being used as spares. Hopefully this will change as Ferrera ladders get put into service replacing 99,00,01 rigs. Tower Ladder still have some old Rhino seagraves as spares these have the one front jack 94,95. With recent delivery most 97,98,99,00 are in spare pool.

[ptwatson 82]

Thank god seagrave was the only one I'm sick of the ferreras already

Curious to know what you do not like about them. ?

[Guest truck12345]

How does Seagrave compare to Pierce E-One?

[M' Ave 1,466]

How does Seagrave compare to Pierce E-One?

I worked with all of them. Like anything else, it's all in the spec, not the brand.

[Guest truck12345]

As far as durability?

[M' Ave 1,466]

As far as durability?

Well, no, not entirely. However, much of the durability is in the spec. What engine/trans. did you select? Sheet metal to be used? Suspension components? Some specs go so far as to specify the gauge of steel used in frame rails. If we're getting into build quality, I'd have to say that I think they're more or less all the same, with the occasional exception, to be sure. I was a volunteer in a dept. with both Pierce and E-One rigs. Now, they didn't run ALL that much but I'd put construction quality on the same level as Seagrave, albeit with some lighter weight componentry. Would that E-One have survived in NYC? Not even for a month. However, it wasn't designed for that. It's comparing Apples to Oranges.

As far as I'm concerned, the builder plate on the grill doesn't really mean all that much. You assemble the spec, someone builds it. If there's any reason to have a builder preference, I think it's related to style and manufacturer specific gimmickry.

[Pagers 197]

You gotta remember... FDNY did run a few Ferrara Engines and might have one still in front line service, do not quote me on this lol. Do they still have a Ferrara at the acedemy?

[M' Ave 1,466]

You gotta remember... FDNY did run a few Ferrara Engines and might have one still in front line service, do not quote me on this lol. Do they still have a Ferrara at the acedemy?

The Ferrara at the academy was a donation from Louisiana following 9/11. It didn't really mesh with the rest of the fleet so it was used for Chauffeur Training School and then donated back to New Orleans after Katrina. There are several front line engines that still operate a Ferrara. Off the top of my head, I know that Eng. 54 and Eng. 26 are in that group. They are special 3 stage high pressure units for use in Manhattan to supply water to upper floors. They were built on the first incarnation of the Ferrara Ultra Chassis. I don't know how well they've held up. Notice how similar they look to a Seagrave? It's all in the spec.....

[FireMedic049 597]

Oops, somehow I missed M'ave's post before I posted this.

You gotta remember... FDNY did run a few Ferrara Engines and might have one still in front line service, do not quote me on this lol. Do they still have a Ferrara at the acedemy?

I'm pretty sure there are Ferrara engines running front-line right now at 26 & 54. I wanna say that they are both HP pumpers. Not sure if there are any others.

If I'm not mistaken, the Ferrara engine that was at the academy ran at 283 prior to that and was donated to New Orleans FD in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to help them out.

Edited February 29, 2012 by FireMedic049

[CFD320 35]

I think the Fire Service community is in love with Seagrave because of them winning FDNY bids. As M'Ave has stated above, the actual manufacturer of the rig is inconsequential in comparison to the specifications and warranty required in the bid. I have seen first hand; a Seagrave rig that does not meet FDNY spec that has a myriad of issues early and often...

Edited February 29, 2012 by CFD320

[x635 4,066]

Disclaimer: My opinion is based on what I've been told by various sources and formed by me. The FF's who work these trucks and engines know them best.

It also shouldn't be forgetten that Seagrave has been used by FDNY almost exclusively (with Mack, too) for decades. It makes it easier in some ways because the mechanics become more familiar with the apparatus, and the parts are not hard to come by.

A lot of what FDNY specs as well is in regards to maintainence.

As far as manufacturers, each on has something to offer. For example, Seagrave has Aerialscope. Pierce has the Bronto Skylift and an incresingly popular aluminum aerial. E-One and KME offer 125' + ladders. Etc.

Also with the pounding of the NYC streets and weather, it takes a toll, no matter how you spec it.

There's also not a large profit margin on the FDNY contract, so few manufactuers want to take a crack at it. Seagrave has all the engineering done, while Ferrara had to spend millions to develop the FDNY apparatus they built.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Disclaimer: My opinion is based on what I've been told by various sources and formed by me. The FF's who work these trucks and engines know them best.

It also shouldn't be forgetten that Seagrave has been used by FDNY almost exclusively (with Mack, too) for decades. It makes it easier in some ways because the mechanics become more familiar with the apparatus, and the parts are not hard to come by.

A lot of what FDNY specs as well is in regards to maintainence.

As far as manufacturers, each on has something to offer. For example, Seagrave has Aerialscope. Pierce has the Bronto Skylift and an incresingly popular aluminum aerial. E-One and KME offer 125' + ladders. Etc.

Also with the pounding of the NYC streets and weather, it takes a toll, no matter how you spec it.

There's also not a large profit margin on the FDNY contract, so few manufactuers want to take a crack at it. Seagrave has all the engineering done, while Ferrara had to spend millions to develop the FDNY apparatus they built.

This is all very true. Much of our spec is indeed geared towards ease of fleet maintenance. Seagrave will always have the TL's because of the Aerialscope product. Also true is the slim profit margin. They hope to make money on the volume of sales, not each unit. Another way to look at it is advertising. There are a lot of rolling billboards on the streets of NYC. It's kinda like Hebrew National and Yankee Stadium. They give the Yankees hotdogs for free, but they get to put "Hebrew National" everywhere.

[goon16 155]

Its hard to get used to something new when you have been using one certain thing for a long time. Our new ferrera has its advantages and has its disadvantages for instance the aerial ladder sways a lot side to side when our seagrave didnt, the top fly section is very narrow and the side rails are shorter than our seagrave. The aerial is a lot slower than the seagrave along with the jacks. The electrical system has been giving us a lot of issues the rig was oos almost all of sat. 9x tour for some kind of electrical problem. But it does ride nice as of now being a month old,the cab is nice and spacious and it has a lot of comparment space we will see how it does after a year of about 4200 runs and how it drives then

[FDNY 10-75 640]

You gotta remember... FDNY did run a few Ferrara Engines and might have one still in front line service, do not quote me on this lol. Do they still have a Ferrara at the acedemy?

The 2003 Ferrara 1000HP/500 pumpers are currently assigned to Engines 54 & 258, a 2004 is assigned to E26.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Bid awarded to KME for 90 Engines.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Bid awarded to KME for 90 Engines.

This is the rumor floating around....do you have a source?

[FDNY 10-75 640]

A KME salesman, he said it was a done deal. (Whether salesmen are reliable or not....?)