Policies Regarding Turnout Gear and Haz-Mat Exposure

[PFDRes47cue 653]

In response to recent undertakes in the North Country after a working fire involving hazardous materials, I wanted to get some more information on the matter.

Who decides the policy for dealing with contaminated or potentially contaminated gear, tools, apparatus after being exposed to hazardous materials? State? County? Department?

What are the policies that exist?

Does the gear get tested for chemical levels? Timeframe? By who?

Who is responsible for replacing gear? State? County? Department that hosted the incident? Members own department? M/A Insurance?

Thanks and stay safe,

Madison

Edited February 14, 2012 by PFDRes47cue

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Interesting question:

Short answer, IMO it SHOULD be up to the IC, Safety Officer, Ops Section Chief and Decon Branch/Group Director or Unit Supervisor.

If you have a real HAZMAT you shouldn't be operating offensively unless decontamination is set up. If Decon is set up you should have a set doffing procedure for personnel exiting the hot zone that has been communicated to all personnel, and should therefore be leaving that gear in the decon area after being decontaminated and doffing that PPE. Usually spent PPE ends up in an overpack drum or something similar.

Now, since its turnout gear and WAY more expensive than most HAZMAT suits, that brings up a serious issue, since we now have personnel with no gear to respond with (assuming your department is like mine and does not have backup-gear for each individual.) I don't have a great answer for you as for what my HM Team's procedure is, but now I'm kind of determined to find out. But realistically, turnout gear that is potentially contaminated should not be leaving the scene. I'm not in any rush to drag that crap home with me.

In CT at least, any equipment we use up at a HAZMAT incident is reimbursed through Dept. of Energy and Environmental Protection and they go after the responsible party who spilled the product to reimburse the state. I've never had to deal with contaminated turnout gear, so I'm not entirely sure how fast that check gets cut from DEEP, but theoretically that's how its supposed to work.

[GBFD111 73]

I was wondering the same thing yesterday. One of my friends who responded to that fire told me that all of their gear was bagged up, including hand tools, hose, and SCBA's.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Yeah, we had to bag everything (turnout gear, helmets, boots, hoods, saws, tools, air packs, etc) and they are quarantined in a trailer behind our station. Departments from across the North Country had loaned gear to firefighters who have needed to turn their gear in. There is a lot of confusion about whether the gear is gone for good or not, and how this decision is made. It is also my understanding that they came around and did air quality and particle tests on different areas/surfaces of rigs...not sure if rigs are going to need special work.

[GBFD111 73]

Yeah, we had to bag everything (turnout gear, helmets, boots, hoods, saws, tools, air packs, etc) and they are quarantined in a trailer behind our station. Departments from across the North Country had loaned gear to firefighters who have needed to turn their gear in. There is a lot of confusion about whether the gear is gone for good or not, and how this decision is made. It is also my understanding that they came around and did air quality and particle tests on different areas/surfaces of rigs...not sure if rigs are going to need special work.

I hope not, that was the first fire that New Engine 7 and R-1 was at after tons of delays. Would be a shame to loose them again for an extended period of time.

Also, question out there about turnout gear. Say an individual is a mutual aid member at a fire department but wears his home gear at the fire, and now it is does need to be destroyed due to an incident like this, that the responsibility of the home fire department right?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I hope not, that was the first fire that New Engine 7 and R-1 was at after tons of delays. Would be a shame to loose them again for an extended period of time.

Also, question out there about turnout gear. Say an individual is a mutual aid member at a fire department but wears his home gear at the fire, and now it is does need to be destroyed due to an incident like this, that the responsibility of the home fire department right?

Mutual Aid members who use their home departments gear are covered under the M/A departments Mutual Aid Insurance. This covers rips, tears, contamination, etc that occurs while on a fire scene, training etc. At least thats what I've been told/explained.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Mutual Aid members who use their home departments gear are covered under the M/A departments Mutual Aid Insurance. This covers rips, tears, contamination, etc that occurs while on a fire scene, training etc. At least thats what I've been told/explained.

I have never heard of this type of insurance, like any other insurance, you can get it, but more likely a dept. or municipal reserve fund would do the same basic thing.

More importantly NYS General Municipal Law 209-g is pretty clear:

§ 209-g. Liability for outside aid.

1. Notwithstanding any inconsistent provision of law, general, special or local, any county, city, town, village or fire district requesting fire aid pursuant to section two hundred nine-e of this chapter or any county, city, town or village requesting police aid pursuant to section two hundred nine-f of this chapter, shall be liable and responsible to the assisting municipal corporation or fire district for any loss of or damage to apparatus or equipment or supplies and shall bear and pay the expense incurred in the operation and maintenance of any apparatus or equipment and the cost of materials and supplies used or consumed in rendering such aid and assistance, but such liability and responsibility shall not apply or extend to apparatus, equipment, materials and supplies owned or supplied by the state.

2. The state or assisting municipal corporation or fire district in such case shall be liable for salaries or other compensation to the assisting forces furnished during the time they shall not be performing their duties for the state or for the assisting municipal corporation or fire district and shall defray the actual traveling and maintenance expense of such assisting forces while they are rendering such aid and assistance, but the receiving municipal corporation or fire district shall reimburse the assisting municipal corporation or fire district for any moneys paid for such salaries or other compensation and traveling and maintenance expense. Any such claim for loss, damage, expense or cost shall not be allowed unless within sixty days after the same shall have been sustained or incurred a written notice of such claim, under oath, itemizing such loss, damage, expense or cost, is served by mail or otherwise upon the comptroller or chief fiscal officer of such receiving municipal corporation or fire district. An assisting municipal corporation or fire district may assume any such loss, damage, expense or cost or loan such equipment and apparatus or donate such services to the receiving municipal corporation or fire district without charge or cost.

3. A county, city, town, village or fire district shall be liable for all payments to be made to or on behalf of injured volunteer firemen or to representatives of deceased volunteer firemen pursuant to and in accordance with the provisions of the volunteer firemen's benefit law. The amount so paid by a town shall be assessed in the manner provided in such law.

4. Neither the state nor the civil or political subdivision of the state whose police or fire forces or employees are engaged in rendering such outside aid and assistance pursuant to any request for aid and assistance or pursuant to direction of the governor or other official or agency authorized by, or pursuant to law so to direct shall be liable or accountable in any way or on account of any act or omission on the part of any officer or member of such forces or of any such employee while so engaged or for or on account of the operation, maintenance or use of any apparatus, equipment, materials or supplies in connection therewith, nor shall any sheriff be held liable or accountable in any way for or on account of any act or omission on the part of any of his deputies within or without the county of their appointment where such deputies are under the command of an officer other than himself.

5. Notwithstanding any inconsistent provision of law, general, special or local, (a) any county whose sheriff, or in the county of Nassau the county executive, declared a state of special emergency within his county pursuant to section two hundred nine-f of this chapter, which resulted in men and/or equipment being furnished by the sheriff of another county for use in the county of the sheriff, or in the county of Nassau the county executive, declaring the state of emergency, shall be liable and responsible to the county of the assisting sheriff for salaries or other compensation paid or due the persons comprising the assisting forces during the time they were engaged in performing services in the county of the requesting sheriff, or in the county of Nassau the county executive, and for all loss or damage to apparatus, equipment and supplies used or consumed by the persons comprising such assisting forces in rendering aid and assistance in the county of the requesting sheriff, or in the county of Nassau the county executive, provided an itemized claim therefor is submitted in writing to the chief fiscal officer of the county of the requesting sheriff, or in the county of Nassau the county executive, within sixty days after the termination of such an emergency. An assisting county may, however, assume any such cost, loss or damage, and all payments made or to be made to or on behalf of such persons comprising such assisting forces or to representatives of deceased persons who comprised such assisting forces pursuant to and in accordance with the provisions of any applicable law, rule or ordinance, including the workmen's compensation law which shall be deemed to be applicable. Neither the county whose sheriff responded with men and/or equipment to a request for assistance made by another sheriff who declared a state of special emergency, or in the county of Nassau the county executive, nor a responding sheriff or employee of the responding county, shall be liable or accountable in any way for any act or omission on the part of any person during the continuance of any such emergency, including but not restricted to the operation, maintenance or use of any apparatus, equipment or supplies in connection therewith, nor shall any sheriff be held liable or accountable in any way for or on account of any act or omission on the part of any of his deputies within or without the county of their appointment where such deputies are under the command of any person other than himself, and ( the city, town or village receiving police aid pursuant to section two hundred nine-f of this chapter shall assume the liability for all damages arising out of any act performed in rendering such aid and shall reimburse the assisting city, town, village, parkway police force, state park police force and/or county police department for any moneys paid by it for salaries or for other expenses incurred by it, including damage to or loss of equipment and supplies. An assisting city, town, village, parkway police force, state park police force and/or county police department may, however, assume in whole or in part any such cost, loss, damage or other cost or charge sustained or suffered by it which is applicable to its rendering such aid, by taking appropriate action to accomplish the same, and the county of the receiving city, town or village may, by appropriate action, elect to obligate itself to pay all or part of any money which such receiving municipality is obliged to pay arising out of and applicable to its having received such aid, and c) a regular, part time or special deputy sheriff of a county shall not, for any reason, lose or forfeit any right, benefit or privilege which he would have had in the county of his residence by becoming and/or acting as an emergency special deputy sheriff of another county during an emergency.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Who decides the policy for dealing with contaminated or potentially contaminated gear, tools, apparatus after being exposed to hazardous materials? State? County? Department?

The AHJ, Chief and IC. Thats why the law requires all fireifghters to have hazmat operations level training (at a minimum) and all departments are required by law to have emergency response plans and they must be available to all employees (members).

1910.120(q)(1)

Emergency response plan. An emergency response plan shall be developed and implemented to handle anticipated emergencies prior to the commencement of emergency response operations. The plan shall be in writing and available for inspection and copying by employees, their representatives and OSHA personnel. Employers who will evacuate their employees from the danger area when an emergency occurs, and who do not permit any of their employees to assist in handling the emergency, are exempt from the requirements of this paragraph if they provide an emergency action plan in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.38.

1910.120(q)(2)

Elements of an emergency response plan. The employer shall develop an emergency response plan for emergencies which shall address, as a minimum, the following areas to the extent that they are not addressed in any specific program required in this paragraph:

1910.120(q)(2)(i) Pre-emergency planning and coordination with outside parties..

1910.120(q)(2)(ii) Personnel roles, lines of authority, training, and communication.

1910.120(q)(2)(iii) Emergency recognition and prevention.

1910.120(q)(2)(iv) Safe distances and places of refuge.

1910.120(q)(2)(v) Site security and control.

1910.120(q)(2)(vi) Evacuation routes and procedures.

1910.120(q)(2)(vii) Decontamination.

1910.120(q)(2)(viii) Emergency medical treatment and first aid.

1910.120(q)(2)(ix) Emergency alerting and response procedures.

1910.120(q)(2)(x) Critique of response and follow-up.

1910.120(q)(2)(xi)PPE and emergency equipment.

Does the gear get tested for chemical levels? Timeframe? By who?

Yes, it needs to be tested if it has been contaminated and decontaminated. But 1st one needs to try to determine what the contamination is. Can it be deconned and/or is it even can it be made safe for firefighting? I remember an incident upstate, involving farm chemicals and it was determined that the only way to decon "cloth" would damage the flame properties of turnouts. Basicly if you deconned it so it was safe for people to wear it would become flammable.

Who is responsible for replacing gear? State? County? Department that hosted the incident? Members own department? M/A Insurance?

Dept. requesting the mutual aid.

This is a great reason for setting up a hazardous materials cost recovery program (in advance) because the property owner is legal responsable for all remediation cost. This was the big fight with FASNY sponsered legislation this fall, because it limited a depts ability to recover these costs. Luckily the Cuomo vetoed it.

Yeah, we had to bag everything (turnout gear, helmets, boots, hoods, saws, tools, air packs, etc) and they are quarantined in a trailer behind our station.

Good start, but if it has not been deconned, it maybe deteriorating.

There is a lot of confusion about whether the gear is gone for good or not, and how this decision is made. It is also my understanding that they came around and did air quality and particle tests on different areas/surfaces of rigs...not sure if rigs are going to need special work.

Hopefully they determined the rigs are ok. If not, they should not have left the incident scene, because they will then contaminate the fire stations, other rigs and other members, etc.

[Bnechis 3,961]

So this topic died pretty quick, I guess that means either most depts have had plans inplace and ALL members are aware of them and have been trained as required by law for the last 26 years or

we will worry about it once we have been contaminated and lose our gear, apparatus and health.

[GBFD111 73]

From what I have heard, all of the responding apparatus that went is back in service and deemed "safe." All of the turnouts are still bagged up though.

[Bnechis 3,961]

From what I have heard, all of the responding apparatus that went is back in service and deemed "safe." All of the turnouts are still bagged up though.

So its being allowed to consume itself. It either can be deconned or it needs to be properly disposed of and since its off site, it will be harder to get the responsable party to pay for it.

[STAT213 332]

What was the incident and the exposure?

As for the gear, why wasn't it deconned at the scene? Why would you even want to bring back dirty gear?

How many sets of gear are you talking about?

[wraftery 1,275]

For loss recovery to pay for contaminated/unuseable equipment (Including apparatus, tools, PPE) I believe that one or more CFR's say that the spiller is responsible for all costs.

Am I right, Barry?

If so, keep it quiet, and don't let this information out. If word gets around, our elected officials will change the regulations and take all costs out of our pensions.

Edited February 21, 2012 by wraftery

[Bnechis 3,961]

For loss recovery to pay for contaminated/unuseable equipment (Including apparatus, tools, PPE) I believe that one or more CFR's say that the spiller is responsible for all costs. Am I right, Barry?

Yes, but if you do not have a cost recovery system in place BEFORE the incident, you are so far behind the 8 ball, you may be out of luck. Also removing it from the site, may become an issue that the "spiller" will use to fight the bill.