Yorktown Heights' New Fire Station

[ny10570 745]

Yorktown has been very prudent with their finances. Look at all the upgrades in equipment in the past 11 years. Look at the amount of properly trained and equipped manpower they turn out with, and their response times.

Have they been prudent with their finances? Have the fire taxes stayed flat over the years or have they been going up every year? A strong membership does not mean a dept is fiscally responsible.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Have they been prudent with their finances? Have the fire taxes stayed flat over the years or have they been going up every year? A strong membership does not mean a dept is fiscally responsible.

2009 - Property Tax income: -1.20% from 2008 2009 Budget

2010 - Property Tax Income : -3% from 2009 2010 Budget

2011 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2010 2011 Budget

2012 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2011 2012 Budget

[jack10562 414]

Barry pretty much summed up my general feelings.

In my opinion, Yorktown taxpayers explicitly said NO, and the commissioners (essentially) said: FU., we're doing what we want, regardless what you say...

Using the word: "Sneaky" was simply a nice way of conveying my thoughts, I have other choice adjectives which also fit, but this is a public forum.

[FirNaTine 370]

Does YHFD have an extremely heavy fire load that we don't know about? Has it become the South Bronx of the 70's? Can't see the justification in a new station being built sorry! How many calls does YHFD respond to on average and how many were structure fires? What is their average response times and I'm not talkin about on a Saturday afternoon or night when members may be more inclined to hang out at quarters? I don't think the answer will warrant a new station. JMO

[Bnechis 3,961]

Have they been prudent with their finances? Have the fire taxes stayed flat over the years or have they been going up every year?

2009 - Property Tax income: -1.20% from 2008

2010 - Property Tax Income : -3% from 2009

2011 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2010

2012 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2011

So if they have not raised the tax, where did the millions come from?

Since these are % changes, is it possible that they are charging to much for the base and thats how they can get away with not increasing the base, but still putting millions aside?

And if thats the case, they have been over charging for a long time.

[newsbuff 286]

Does YHFD have an extremely heavy fire load that we don't know about? Has it become the South Bronx of the 70's? Can't see the justification in a new station being built sorry! How many calls does YHFD respond to on average and how many were structure fires? What is their average response times and I'm not talkin about on a Saturday afternoon or night when members may be more inclined to hang out at quarters? I don't think the answer will warrant a new station. JMO

Oh you haven't heard? They are the new Harlem. But really, all kidding aside, they did 778 runs last year.

[jack10562 414]

Searching online for (free) legal notice archives is somewhat fruitless, however I did find the Kitchawan project was knocked down by Yorktown taxpayers three times over 3 years!

A lawsuit brought by taxpayers forcing the sale of the land purchase and seeking a refund of tax dollars spent on it was thrown out because of technicalities.

(full disclosure: I have no personal axe to grind over the outcome of this since I am not a Yorktown taxpayer, however I have several friends and acquaintances that are resident taxpayers who do.)

{edit}

If they pulled a stunt like that in my town, I would be furious, along with hundreds and hundreds of other residents.

Fur would fly, heads would roll. (figuratively speaking, of course)

[/edit]

[SECTMB 612]

While we're on the subject of new firehouses, I put in a bid today for work on Norwalk's new headquarters building. What a beauty. Looks like it belongs amongst the buildings at Yale. Lots of brick and stone. Imposing structure.

[Remember585 815]

Everyone has opinions about everything. Heck, I have my own opinions about this. But one has to ask the question...

WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHAT A FIRE DISTRICT / DEPARTMENT DOES WITH IT'S MONEY IF IT ISN'T BEING USED ILLEGALLY?!

I don't live in Yorktown, nor am I in their fire district. My money says that they've done some kind of homework to decide that adding a third station will be of some benefit in some way, shape or form.

Sure there may not be a fire down this way for many years. And perhaps guys don't live close to this station. But if there is a fire one day, and the Engine in that fire station gets there first, puts out the fire quickly and possible saves someone's life - I'd bet dollars to donuts that everyone will sing it's praises.

I don't understand the hypocricies that go on here sometimes. Everyone wants to be "brothers" when they need something, but so many people are so quick to start criticizing others.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Barry pretty much summed up my general feelings.

In my opinion, Yorktown taxpayers explicitly said NO, and the commissioners (essentially) said: FU., we're doing what we want, regardless what you say...

Using the word: "Sneaky" was simply a nice way of conveying my thoughts, I have other choice adjectives which also fit, but this is a public forum.

I see your point...and wasn't making any pokes your way brother. Just making my own thoughts on it as well. With the different wording I see your point much clearer.

I still don't get the financial prudent point with the modest tax comment. I also have friends that live there have no association with the FD and when talk about their taxes overall school and property and fire that combined its very high. Several who are LEO's don't understand how they do not have a staffed FD when they pay similar tax rates or even more then those who do have staffing in some form.

[ny10570 745]

2009 - Property Tax income: -1.20% from 2008 2009 Budget

2010 - Property Tax Income : -3% from 2009 2010 Budget

2011 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2010 2011 Budget

2012 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2011 2012 Budget

That does appear to be extremely responsible. Thanks.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

That does appear to be extremely responsible. Thanks.

Yeah....give me a cause and I'll give you a statistic.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

2009 - Property Tax income: -1.20% from 2008 2009 Budget

2010 - Property Tax Income : -3% from 2009 2010 Budget

2011 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2010 2011 Budget

2012 - Property Tax income: +/-0% from 2011 2012 Budget

Now that we know the districts property tax income...can anyone find the percentage changes for the fire tax rate.

That is only a line in the budget under income. If you go through the rest of the budget you will notice particularly in 2009 that every line item increased.

[ny10570 745]

Yeah....give me a cause and I'll give you a statistic.

Didn't say they were, just that they appeared to be

[pasobuff 38]

wow....having once lived in the South end of Yorktown - when I was a member there I think I was the ONLY member to live South of the resevoir.....and I moved away umm....quite a few years ago!

My father used to live down there, and was a staunch opposer of building a new fire station - for many of the reasons already pointed out here- such as Millwood having a station right down the road - why NOT enter an automatic Mutual Aid agreement with them? Or Croton, or Ossining..... Another thing I find to be asinine is that some areas of the YFD are accessible ONLY by driving into Millwoods' district!.....

And yes, when I lived in the 'South End' it was pretty darned hard for me to make a piece of apparatus at the main station, HOWEVER I don't recall having to wait any real length of time if there was a call down by me - apparatus was able to make it in good time - think about it - if the majority of hte membership lives and works near one of the other stations, WHY would they bypass that station and apparatus to drive down to the South end and grab a piece of apparatus from there? Especially if you don't know if someone else is ahead of you and might have it out the door a few minutes before you get there - now no one is responding apparatus from one of hte other stations because people went to the closest one to the call.....

As for personnel to respond to this new station from the area - unless the population has increased DRAMATICALLY since I left - there aren't a whole lot of people to pull membership from - and having or not having a station down there had NOTHING to do with my joining the department when I did.

[JJB531 652]

Everyone has opinions about everything. Heck, I have my own opinions about this. But one has to ask the question...

WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHAT A FIRE DISTRICT / DEPARTMENT DOES WITH IT'S MONEY IF IT ISN'T BEING USED ILLEGALLY?!

What does it matter? It matters to those of us who are Yorktown taxpayers, or have family members who are Yorktown taxpayers. It matters to those of us who want to see a capable, streamlined, consolidated emergency service system here in Westchester County instead of the conglomerate of districts and agencies that currently exist. Perhaps they didn't obtain or use this money illegally, but if they were able to save this money from their regular operating budget, then did they really need that money in the first place? Plus the taxpayers already said "No", we don't want you spending millions on a new firehouse, and that's just what they're doing, spending millions of taxpayers dollars on a new firehouse.

I don't live in Yorktown, nor am I in their fire district. My money says that they've done some kind of homework to decide that adding a third station will be of some benefit in some way, shape or form.

Have they done their homework? If so, then what is the benefit? As far as we know, there are no members that live in the vicinity of this new proposed firehouse. There is an extremely minimal number of calls in the Southern end of town. Millwood FD is a mile away, and to get to parts of the Yorktown District, they have to drive through Millwood's District. Where's the benefit? I'm failing to see it unless someone can offer up a good arguement as to the benefit of this project.

Sure there may not be a fire down this way for many years. And perhaps guys don't live close to this station. But if there is a fire one day, and the Engine in that fire station gets there first, puts out the fire quickly and possible saves someone's life - I'd bet dollars to donuts that everyone will sing it's praises.

With that line of thinking, maybe every department should train and equip a HazMat Team, a Dive Team, a USAR Team, etc., because maybe one day they will be able to save a life. It's simply not fiscally responsible, that's why we utilize mutual aid from the County's TRT, Career Departments that have these capabilities, and other agencies (such as Yorktown's well established Water Rescue Team)to supplement our responses to these incidents. No different then Yorktown and Millwood entering a mutual aid agreement for the Southern end of Yorktown. Now I don't know if that option was ever explored, but if it wasn't, that's being financially irresponsible.

I don't understand the hypocricies that go on here sometimes. Everyone wants to be "brothers" when they need something, but so many people are so quick to start criticizing others.

It's not criticizing. In addition to being Firefighters, Paramedics, EMT's, Police Officers, etc., we all have one thing in common; We're all Taxyapers! I never understood the mentality some of us have when it comes to finances. Are our functions important to the community? Of course. Should be be properly trained and equipped to respond to emergencies? Of course. But just because we provide a vital function for the communities we serve doesn't give us carte blanche to be financially irresponsible and think that the ideologies of budgeting don't apply to us.

If it doesn't affect you personally, or your wallet (which everyone is so concerned with) then get over it.

Most of us aren't just going to "get over it" simply because you dictate we should. We question and discuss things because in the end, we are all looking to improve the "system" that exists here in Westchester, and many of us want to see the "home rule" and "fiefdom" way of doing things start to dissolve a bit, and this project has not only isolated the department from the taxpayers, it also ignores other alternatives for Fire Departments to consolidate services and save money for the taxpayers, while still providing high quality service.

Brothers my a**...

Simply because other firefighters on this board are being reasonable and questioning the necessity of this project? So, I guess in the fire service everyone should just go along with anything and everything the other "brothers" are doing, regardless of how irresponsible or unnecessary it may be?

[Remember585 815]

Another thing I find to be asinine is that some areas of the YFD are accessible ONLY by driving into Millwoods' district!

Whoever drew the district lines back in the day was a recreational glue-sniffer at best. If you could see how some lines are done in this county, you'd go nuts.

For example, we have to go thru Ossining, then Millwood, then Yorktown fire districts to get to some streets in our district.

It's not a perfect world we live in, but it somehow works.

[AddItToTheBoxK 12]

I am one for Consolidation. I think if done right it could save taxpayers in Westchester money and possibly be more beneficial to the FD for service and operations. IF DONE RIGHT!

With that said why does it matter so much to everyone who does not live in Yorktown. Wether it will turn to be a mistake in the future or a added benefit why do we as memebers of this forum demand to seek answers.....if in a educational way than I could see it.

Questions like does this help your response time,will it benefit the district and the people living in it better. I would assume without asking...... that answer would be yes. Ive had the pleasure of working with Yorktown as a Mutual aid department over the years and they are a Proactive aggressive knowlegdible department. Thats why Yorktown has a Mayor, board of trustees, fire commisioners, fire cheifs etc.......Let them and thier taxpayers worry ......

And if one day we consolidate as districts and a county to provide fire protection etc then thats when we can worry how many Firehouses and trucks we have and where thier located.....And we should stop using the word consolidation including myself, WE CANT EVEN COME TO HAVE THE SAME GEAR AND ACCOUNTABILITY TAGS, Some say its cause of the small tight knit commutnitys that are impeeding progress and the politicians....wrong....its the fire service as a whole and greed. The fire service is 100 years of progress impeeded by tradition......We are all to blame. So for now why not just worry about your District unless its for a educational purpose.....cause no matter what we think , Yorktown is going to do what Yorktown feels is best for them. Just as a big city like Yonkers would.

By the way looks like a nice Firehouse.

[ny10570 745]

Whoever drew the district lines back in the day was a recreational glue-sniffer at best. If you could see how some lines are done in this county, you'd go nuts.

For example, we have to go thru Ossining, then Millwood, then Yorktown fire districts to get to some streets in our district.

It's not a perfect world we live in, but it somehow works.

Why not fix the district lines. Years ago Pleasantville and Thornwood sat down and fixed several similar issues.

[mstrang1 213]

I am one for Consolidation. I think if done right it could save taxpayers in Westchester money and possibly be more beneficial to the FD for service and operations. IF DONE RIGHT!

With that said why does it matter so much to everyone who does not live in Yorktown. Wether it will turn to be a mistake in the future or a added benefit why do we as memebers of this forum demand to seek answers.....if in a educational way than I could see it.

Questions like does this help your response time,will it benefit the district and the people living in it better. I would assume without asking...... that answer would be yes. Ive had the pleasure of working with Yorktown as a Mutual aid department over the years and they are a Proactive aggressive knowlegdible department. Thats why Yorktown has a Mayor, board of trustees, fire commisioners, fire cheifs etc.......Let them and thier taxpayers worry ......

And if one day we consolidate as districts and a county to provide fire protection etc then thats when we can worry how many Firehouses and trucks we have and where thier located.....And we should stop using the word consolidation including myself, WE CANT EVEN COME TO HAVE THE SAME GEAR AND ACCOUNTABILITY TAGS, Some say its cause of the small tight knit commutnitys that are impeeding progress and the politicians....wrong....its the fire service as a whole and greed. The fire service is 100 years of progress impeeded by tradition......We are all to blame. So for now why not just worry about your District unless its for a educational purpose.....cause no matter what we think , Yorktown is going to do what Yorktown feels is best for them. Just as a big city like Yonkers would.

By the way looks like a nice Firehouse.

It matters to everyone outside of Yorktown because this is not just a Yorktown issue. Why wait until "one day" to consolidate? Why wait until "one day" to get the same turnout gear or accountability tags?

A direct quote from you "The fire service is 100 years of progress impeeded(sic) by tradition". So one sentence you are saying that we should mind our own business and deal with it when we deal with it, and the next sentence you are saying that we are impeeded(sic) by tradition. We all should talk about it because if every day we say "for now...", then tomorrow never comes, now does it? Consolidation does no good to the taxpayers after they paid for that extra firehouse, and extra engine, and that 100' tower ladder that every department also has, etc. If consolidation occurs, yes you can sell that stuff, but for a major loss.

By the way, from what I understand, that Mayor, board of trustees, fire commisioners, fire cheifs etc(sicand sic)put this to a vote, had the vote turned down, then overcharged taxpayers to get money for something that the taxpayers explicitly voted against. They are not worrying at all, they got their way, it's the taxpayers that should be worrying. Just because "Yorktown is going to do what Yorktown feels is best for them. Just like a big city like Yonkers would", does not make it right. It also makes it a dig at Yonkers.

[firedude 985]

Why not fix the district lines. Years ago Pleasantville and Thornwood sat down and fixed several similar issues.

Interesting, I like the Idea. But it seems that the YHFD Commissioners have their mind set that they need a 3rd Station.

Today, there was a smoke condition at 1594 Croton Lake Road. It's 3 driving miles from Station 2 and 4.5 driving miles from the proposed station 3. They struggled to get 2 engines to the scene, 1 came from each station. And one of the trucks was driven by a chief. They had to call in a mutual aid engine and tanker from croton. I'm not going to make an opinion until I see real facts but by the looks of it, a third station will not work for them.

Edited February 15, 2012 by firedude

[HFD23 37]

Interesting, I like the Idea. But it seems that the YHFD Commissioners have their mind set that they need a 3rd Station.

Today, there was a smoke condition at 1594 Croton Lake Road. It's 3 driving miles from Station 2 and 4.5 driving miles from the proposed station 3. They struggled to get 2 engines to the scene, 1 came from each station. And one of the trucks was driven by a chief. They had to call in a mutual aid engine and tanker from croton. I'm not going to make an opinion until I see real facts but by the looks of it, a third station will not work for them.

No Engine was driven by a Chief.... to that particular call...

[firedude 985]

No Engine was driven by a Chief.... to that particular call...

Who is 2534?

[JM15 386]

Who is 2534?

Most likely a Captain not a chief

[fireboyny 61]

2534 is a Captain.

253:1-3: YHFD Chiefs

253: 4-5: Captains

253: 6-9: Lieutenants

As per yorktownfire.org:

Chief Clint Loretta (Car 2531)

1st Assistant Chief Chet Swirski (Car 2532)

2nd Assistant Chief Doug Gollogly (Car 2533)

Captain Jason Swart (Car 2534)

Captain Paul Dillon (Car 2535)

Lieutenant Jeff Slotoroff (Car 2536)

Lieutenant Derek Grisanti (Car 2537)

Lieutenant Tim Mentrasti (Car 2538)

Lieutenant John Lembke (Car 2539)

http://www.yorktownfire.org/apps/public/news/newsView.cfm?News_ID=301

[mstrang1 213]

So the engine was driven by a Captain. 253-4 is no longer "Captain", he is "Engine xxx Driver". S/He cannot act as both positions. Now, if they do not have enough members/drivers to fill those spots with the current station for a daytime alarm, how do they propose this new station will be staffed? I'm not terribly familiar with Yorktown demographics/geography/zoning etc, but it seems like the southern part of town is mostly residential. So even if they recruit new members that live near Station 3, I would think most of them would be at work, again, not staffing for daytime alarms. Unless they propose a live in station system, but no living/bunk areas are being provided.

[fireboyny 61]

So the engine was driven by a Captain. 253-4 is no longer "Captain", he is "Engine xxx Driver". S/He cannot act as both positions. Now, if they do not have enough members/drivers to fill those spots with the current station for a daytime alarm, how do they propose this new station will be staffed? I'm not terribly familiar with Yorktown demographics/geography/zoning etc, but it seems like the southern part of town is mostly residential. So even if they recruit new members that live near Station 3, I would think most of them would be at work, again, not staffing for daytime alarms. Unless they propose a live in station system, but no living/bunk areas are being provided.

The Southern Part of the district is primarally residential, (wooded) with the exception of the IBM Watson Research Center, located within a mile of the "Proposed" Firehouse.

strang: If you don't mind me asking, how is he no longer a Captain because he was the Chauffeur of an engine? He is still a firematic officer, and takes the role of I/C until a "higher" officer is on location.

Edited February 16, 2012 by fireboyny

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The Southern Part of the district is primarally residential, (wooded) with the exception of the IBM Watson Research Center, located within a mile of the "Proposed" Firehouse.

strang: If you don't mind me asking, how is he no longer a Captain because he was the Chauffeur of an engine? He is still a firematic officer, and takes the role of I/C until a "higher" officer is on location.

Ok..so then once someone comes and assumes command from him he goes from being IC to the MPO. Also just to point out...being a fire officer does not make you automatically the "IC," just the same as being a "higher officer" also doesn't automatically make you the IC when you get there.

Edited February 16, 2012 by alsfirefighter

[firedude 985]

strang: If you don't mind me asking, how is he no longer a Captain because he was the Chauffeur of an engine? He is still a firematic officer, and takes the role of I/C until a "higher" officer is on location.

Ok..so then once someone comes and assumes command from him he goes from being IC to the MPO. Also just to point out...being a fire officer does not make you automatically the "IC," just the same as being a "higher officer" also doesn't automatically make you the IC when you get there.

Not just IC... the driver is not really suppose to leave the truck. If they did have a fire, who would pump?

Edited February 16, 2012 by firedude

[TRUCK6018 50]

how is he no longer a Captain because he was the Chauffeur of an engine? He is still a firematic officer, and takes the role of I/C until a "higher" officer is on location.

You can not be an officer and chauffeur at the same time. When you arrive on the scene how are you going to do a proper size up when you can't leave the engine? How are you going to make command decisions when you have to worry about operating the pump? In these circumstances you may be an officer in title, you shouldn't be one in practice.

Let throw this scenario out there. The chief of the department is the chauffeur with 4 firefighters on board. None of the firefighters are qualified to operate the engine. Who should be in command? I'll give you a hint: Not the chief!

Here's another one: The chief is riding in the officers seat en route to a fire. This vehicle is still nothing more that Engine 123. Upon arrival the chief has to decide whether or not he is officer of the crew and be in command as Engine 123 or break away from the engine and become the IC and leave someone else in charge of the crew.

The fire service isn't like the White House that any plane the president boards automatically becomes Air Force One.