Yorktown Heights' New Fire Station

[firedude 985]

Notice to Bidders for Kitchawan Fire & Rescue Station

Photo Courtesy of Yorktownfire.org

From the Notice to bidders:

The Kitchawan Fire & Rescue Station Site is located on Rt 134, Yorktown Heights, New York. The

site is available for walk thru by each bidder at his or her own schedule. No Pre-Bid meeting is

scheduled. The site is currently undeveloped and unoccupied land. Each bidder will have to

acknowledge visiting the site on the bid form.

[newsbuff 286]

Im glad to see taxpayer money go to good use to build a firehouse where its so desperately needed, and there are no other firehouses around for miles....

Millwood.

[BBBMF 158]

Maybe the responsible action should've been to say..."hey lets just give that part of the fire district to Millwood, they're only a half a mile away anyway"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice job...

WHy fight for a middle class tax break when we'll just spend it on new firehouses we don't need....Oh sorry i forgot about the surge in fire duty

[SECTMB 612]

I will be interesting to see the plans. I keep seeing firehouse renovations and new construction, including my own, with no accommodation for bunk rooms. These firehouses are planned for service lives long into the future yet there is not long term planning for part time or permanent staff.

Also, what are the numbers of Yorktown members in proximity to the new firehouse siting? Great to have a firehouse to cover a portion of the district, provided there

are also members available to respond to it.

I wonder if some of the more out of the way areas would be better served by a dual response.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Since the voters turned down the bond on this project (twice?) and that was in boom times, then the commissioners said they would just save for a few years and build it without the voters approval, I wonder how the voters will respond, particularly the next time they are asked to buy a rig or anything else?

[firedude 985]

This is the Yorktown FD Fire District. The Flames represent fire stations. The flame on the botton is the location of the proposed station 3.

What apparatus would be staioned here? Does that area have hydrants? The map is from Yorktownfire.org

Edited February 8, 2012 by firedude

[mfd248 2]

Since the voters turned down the bond on this project (twice?) and that was in boom times, then the commissioners said they would just save for a few years and build it without the voters approval, I wonder how the voters will respond, particularly the next time they are asked to buy a rig or anything else?

Could not agree more, there are other alternatives that should have been considered such as entering into a IMA (inter municipal agreement) and create a dual response with the Millwood firehouse just up the street, it houses a class A engine and tanker. Yorktown fire commissioners could of approached the Millwood commissioners and shared the existing station 2 on RT 134, if it was too small a addition would be a much less costly alternative especially in these tough economical times. Maintenance and operating expenses could have been shared making this a viable progressive alternative for both fire districts.

Elected officials, the fire commissioners, are there to represent the people who elect them, considering the bond was voted down twice and the district did not convince people that the new firehouse was needed, they should of continued to educate/ demonstrate the need for a new station. Not just overtax us, set it aside in a capital reserve fund and then just post a permissive referendum to spend the funds.

These comments are in no way directed at the Chiefs or active members of YFD, they are highly motivated, train constantly and should be an example for us all to follow.

[newsbuff 286]

So if very few members live down there, now instead of driving in a RL&S fire truck that can go through Red Lights, pass cars, etc.(all in accordance with the law), the members will now have to drive to this firehouse in their personal vehicles with the blue light brigade, wait at red lights, not necessarily be given the courtesy to pass, or get into an accident due to the further response distance.

Yeah this totally makes sense.

And a breakdown for some people that aren't familiar with the area.(All in driving miles)

Distance from proposed site to Millwood Sta. 1- 2.8mi

Distance from proposed site to Yorktown Sta. 1- 6.4mi (Google Earth says its faster to get on the Taconic, instead of using the backroads.)

Distance from proposed site to Millwood/Yorktown District Line- 1.3mi

Distance from Millwood Sta. 1 to district Line- 1.5mi

I guess it's generally regarded that south of the reservoir is the "south side" of YHFD's district.

From Millwood Sta. 1, it is 3.1 miles to the reservoir.

From the proposed site, it is 2.4 miles to the reservoir.

So what they are trying to tell us is that to have a firehouse that is 0.7 miles closer than the nearest firehouse to the "dividing line", it is worth building an entire firehouse?

Capt. Nechis, I'm waiting to hear your favorite word!

[x635 4,066]

Can Millwood guarentee a response time with apparatus and manpower that is acceptable to the standards of Yorktown FD?

Who would be legally liable if someone was to, gosh forbid, die if Millwood couldn't get automatic aid out to Yorktown?

It should also be noted that Millwood is also building a multi-million dollar new firehouse.

Additionally, Yorktown has outgrown both current firehouses. They have enough apparatus currently to move to the new station. Last I heard, the station will house an Engine, Tanker, and the Dive Team truck.

I hope they are able to replace their current main firehouse with a new facility one day.

And, there are other firehouses in Westchester that are around 1 mile away from each other.

[newsbuff 286]

Can Millwood guarentee a response time with apparatus and manpower that is acceptable to the standards of Yorktown FD?

Who would be legally liable if someone was to, gosh forbid, die if Millwood couldn't get automatic aid out to Yorktown?

But can Millwood guarantee a response time with apparatus and manpower that is acceptable in their OWN district? And this is in no way a shot against Millwood, but being a volunteer agency, you CAN'T GUARANTEE any type of response. Period.

Additionally, Yorktown has outgrown both current firehouses. They have enough apparatus currently to move to the new station. Last I heard, the station will house an Engine, Tanker, and the Dive Team truck.

I hope they are able to replace their current main firehouse with a new facility one day.

So use the money to build a new station 1, if they are in such dire need.

And, there are other firehouses in Westchester that are around 1 mile away from each other.

And we have spoken about those departments to the point that we're beating a dead horse with a stick. This is just a semi-new topic.

Edited February 8, 2012 by newsbuff

[Bnechis 3,961]

So if very few members live down there, now instead of driving in a RL&S fire truck that can go through Red Lights, pass cars, etc.(all in accordance with the law), the members will now have to drive to this firehouse in their personal vehicles with the blue light brigade, wait at red lights, not necessarily be given the courtesy to pass, or get into an accident due to the further response distance.

If memory serves, When it was last up for public vote, this point came up and the answer from the commissioners was something along the lines of none, but this will get volunteers from other parts of town to "hang out here".

Capt. Nechis, I'm waiting to hear your favorite word!

Me Too!

Can Millwood guarentee a response time with apparatus and manpower that is acceptable to the standards of Yorktown FD?

If YFD builds this house, can YFD guarentee a response time with apparatus and manpower that is acceptable to its own standards?

Who would be legally liable if someone was to, gosh forbid, die if Millwood couldn't get automatic aid out to Yorktown?

Since, YFD would still respond they would have no liability, particularly since the voters turn down expansion.

Additionally, Yorktown has outgrown both current firehouses. They have enough apparatus currently to move to the new station. Last I heard, the station will house an Engine, Tanker, and the Dive Team truck.

This new fire station with an engine, tanker and dive truck will not help anyone if it does not have staffing. If they have outgrown the other fire stations, they need to consider:

1) do they have the right size fleet (that they can staff and operate)?

2) do the existing stations need additions?

3) could they add a bay in Millwood to help handle it? And going back in history, didn't YFD have an engine stationed in Millwood many years ago?

I hope they are able to replace their current main firehouse with a new facility one day.

With this move and the state mandated tax cap, the tax payers may never allow it.

And, there are other firehouses in Westchester that are around 1 mile away from each other.

And most can't get a winning team on the field.

Firefighters put out fire, not fire stations and rigs

And we have spoken about those departments to the point that we're beating a dead horse with a stick. This is just a semi-new topic.

The dead horse is any dept that can not put enough interior firefighters onscene in under 10 minutes 24/7/365. As vollunteer numbers drop and career depts face reduction, this will continue to be an issue. Most of the country is already seen the light but we would rather be taxed high and get poor service for it, just so we can be proud of our own little kingdom.

[jack10562 414]

All I'm going to say is I still think it was very sneaky the way the construction is being funded, by forging ahead and making the project funds a district budget item, despite the fact Yorktown taxpayers previously knocked down the construction bond proposals.

[newsbuff 286]

this thread is out of control and should be shut down ! If Yorktown agreed to have another dept cover that area or dual response then everyone on here would just jump to more conclusions saying look they can't handle there own district because they are volunteer. It's pretty sad that everyone is trying to attack them for protecting the residents of the Yorktown Hieghts Fire District

Out of control??? All I see on here is grown men having a conversation about a very controversial subject regarding Yorktown.

And if they were to enter into a mutual aid agreement for every call, you're right. We would talk about it. It's covering up a much larger issue of a lack of manpower.

Nobody is attacking YHFD for trying to protect their constituents, but in this day and age with EVERYONE looking at how we spend taxpayer money, we/they can do better.

[JJB531 652]

this thread is out of control and should be shut down ! If Yorktown agreed to have another dept cover that area or dual response then everyone on here would just jump to more conclusions saying look they can't handle there own district because they are volunteer. It's pretty sad that everyone is trying to attack them for protecting the residents of the Yorktown Hieghts Fire District

Out of control and should be shut down? If you feel thats the case, hit the report button, thats what it is there for. This thread and it's posts have so far been professional, mature, and a lot of decent points have been made about other options that may have been available to YHFD instead of continuing to build a firehouse that the taxpayers said no to not once, but twice. Instead of stomping your feet that this thread is "out of control and should be shut down", how about providing an educated, well thought out rebuttal as to why the firehouse is a necessity. And please stop with the "people are against us cause we're volunteer" nonsense; quite frankly its getting really old. If someone from YHFD would like to provide some information as to this firehouse, I'm sure everyone would respect some insight. Personally I think it's silly to go forward with this build considering the close proximity of Millwood, and as my parents are taxpayers in Yorktown, I'm curious how many firefighters live in the south end of town to staff the apparatus. That opinion is based on facts provided by others... My opinion can be changed if someone can offer up a logical argument to convince me otherwise.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I'll say it...consolidation yet again might be a better option for the entire area...Yorktown, Millwood, Mohegan...hire more staff...period.

[fireboyny 61]

So use the money to build a new station 1, if they are in such dire need.

Station 1 is owned by Yorktown Heights Engine Co. #1, NOT the Fire District. Station 2 (and future station 3) are owned by the fire district

[newsbuff 286]

I'll say it...consolidation yet again might be a better option for the entire area...Yorktown, Millwood, Mohegan...hire more staff...period.

And we have a winner!

Regional consolidation. Not necessarily countywide, but regional or district consolidation.

Station 1 is owned by Yorktown Heights Engine Co. #1, NOT the Fire District. Station 2 (and future station 3) are owned by the fire district

Sell the building to the district. I know it would mean no rent income to the company, but it's a firehouse. The equipment and building that they are housed in take precedence.

Edited February 8, 2012 by newsbuff

[SECTMB 612]

I also must say that this is not an out of control thread.

What I think is happening in Yorktown is the ages old continuation of a narrow view and short term fixes for long term problems. Most of the comments and suggestions have been forward thinking.

Volunteer ranks are diminishing for a number of reasons, most of which have to do with whose got the time when job(s) and family commitments take more time today than in the past and the demands of volunteering take much more time. Paid department ranks are diminishing as well due to budget cut backs.

So it should be incumbent upon each fire department/district to give some consideration to how they might work with their neighboring departments to overcome some of the mutual problems we all face.

By the way, if anybody needed a new firehouse, it's Millwood. Theirs should have been condemned years ago, and I believe was so full of building code violations they couldn't use it to host other than fire department functions. Theirs couldn't get built fast enough. But for all its size, and it's big, no bunk provisions for the inevitable advent of paid personnel, be it 5, 10 or more years from now. At least not on the plans I saw.

[mfc2257 464]

QUOTED POST DELETED

This is life... Things get discussed. In today's economic environment it would be foolish to think that a bid notice for a fire station being placed on a public forum wouldn't have discussion regarding the merits of such a fire station, the public's perception of the project, and the financial implications that go along with it.

If I posted a picture of a new truck that I bought myself on this forum I would reasonably expect that the Ford vs Dodge vs Chevy banter would follow.

Edited February 8, 2012 by helicopper

[DaRock98 76]

QUOTED POST DELETED

I see and understand your point but I think this thread is serving a good purpose. I to would feel like people were bashing me and my agency at first if I were a member of the YHFD, but what you need to do is take a step back and look at the bigger picture and remove all of your personal feelings from the situation. The bottom line is the community voted this proposal down TWICE. What is being done in my eyes is VERY shady and not ethically or morally right. I am not a member of said department so I really dont know if other options were explored.(I sure hope so)It would be nice to know the complete story from someone involved in the decision making process regarding this but they do not need to come on here and answer to the EMTbravo community as they do need to answer to the tax payers and the community they were elected to serve and protect.

[HFD23 37]

This conversation is nice and is full of lots of speculation, but it is just that... So why not try to get some factual answers as to what the plan actually is?

As I am not a commissioner, I will not comment either in favor of or against their project, but my suggestions is that if any of the members of this website have questions the best action would be to attend the Pubic Board of Fire Commissioners Meetings next tuesday night at station 2 and ask your questions in person or write a letter to the Yorktown Heights Board of Fire Commissioners and ask all of your questions. Go to the source and maybe we can understand what their thought process is.

Edited February 8, 2012 by HFD23

[ustadoit 13]

To give this topic a few more thoughts:

1. If I had a neighbor with a few cars on his driveway, I can't consider them part of my fleet or count on them to get me to work, etc, . My ride is my responsibility. It is possible that Millwood neither seeks nor needs added territory or additional calls and is quite content to let Yorktown FD cover their own calls in the area. I don't know if the voters in Yorktown somehow thought that Millwood assets should be considered their's.

2. It is also not unlikely that most of the voters were ignorant of the fact that a tanker operation usually requires several tankers, and that having theirs relatively pre-positioned would be a good idea.

3. I believe there are no hydrants in Yorktown south of the reservoir, west of Route 100. This includes the Kitchiwan area and the Teatown area. I'm not sure about the area east of 100 that borders Mt Kisco's district. (and I don't know which department has that Yeshiva in that area.) Put a tanker in the neighborhood!

4. An earlier post might have quoted 6 miles as the distance between current and proposed fire stations. I think it would be a fair estimate to point out that the tanker travelling that distance would spend the first half of the ride going through the hydranted areas.

4a. For those who don't know - and might want to start a separate thread - the Taconic Parkway may temporarily cease to be a viable option for north/south travel for YFD, as the northbound parkway bridge over the reservoir must be replaced. Removal is supposed to start this spring. The southbound bridge, which is inconveniently about 500 yards away, will be forced to carry 4 lanes of traffic for the duration of the project and the detour or crossover zone goes from Pinesbridge Rd in New Castle (Millwood's district) almost to Underhill Road. There are few points where the reservoir can be crossed, and this messes up 2. The Croton Dam in Cortlandt Manor outside Croton may remain closed to traffic, The parkway - with lanes as narrow as 9 feet in 2 places - may be a nightmare, the bridge near the ?Hunterbrook? pump station is too lightweight, and you have to wonder how bad traffic will be on Route 100.

5. YFD probably has considered that department emergency vehicles - including those enroute to the scene- may have to be used to transport a tanker driver from one firehouse to another.

[JJB531 652]

Your bring up good points, but is a tanker driving lights/sirens through hydranted areas faster or slower then a FF driving his POV through hydranted area to get to the proposed new firehouse? With the impending mess on the Taconic, is this going to affect FF's from traveling in POV's on the Taconic to get to the new firehouse? How many FD members reside in the vicinity of the new firehouse to staff the apparatus in a timely fashion while avoiding some of these obstacles?

[16fire5 693]

This conversation is nice and is full of lots of speculation, but it is just that... So why not try to get some factual answers as to what the plan actually is?

As I am not a commissioner, I will not comment either in favor of or against their project, but my suggestions is that if any of the members of this website have questions the best action would be to attend the Pubic Board of Fire Commissioners Meetings next tuesday night at station 2 and ask your questions in person or write a letter to the Yorktown Heights Board of Fire Commissioners and ask all of your questions. Go to the source and maybe we can understand what their thought process is.

I respectfully diagree. Most of what that has been presented are facts. The distances are facts. The public's votes on the issue are facts. As for the board of fire commisioners this once again shows why I don't think volunteer firefighters should be on the board. Career firefighters can't be on the board in the district they work. Teachers can't be on the school board in districts they work. It is my experience that Boards of Fire Commissioners that include members of the general public do a better job weighing all the issues.

[helicopper 1,050]

In the past 10 years how many calls have occurred in the response area that would be covered by this new firehouse?

What was the response time to these calls?

Where are the studies that conclusively indicate this is a necessary project?

I'm not saying I'm for or against. I'm merely seeking more information.

[x635 4,066]

Yorktown has been very prudent with their finances. Look at all the upgrades in equipment in the past 11 years. Look at the amount of properly trained and equipped manpower they turn out with, and their response times.

From what I understand, it will be a very modest firehouse, with the purpose mainly being to house apparatus and support the response.

Having many friends and family in Yorktown Heights, and my wife being born and raised there with her parents still living there, I know that Yorktown Heights is lucky to have high-quality protection from YHFD, and YVAC, with a very modest tax rate.

I've seen the system work for myself on several occasions, especially dispatching for YHFD and participating in other related activities with YHFD. I've had many friends currently in or past members of YHFD who have gone on to very succesful careers with very high profile, high quality agencies. That just further proves how the YHFD has some really top-notch members.

Also,it's not "speculation", it's a discussion. Anyone who really cares about their department should be open to and welcome criticism, and comparing different systems and delivery models, should know that being defensive is like putting your hands over you ears and saying that

To the member who invited everyone to the Commisioners meeting because of "speculation", since I cannot make it there from Texas, I hope you will take notes from that meeting and present them here.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Yorktown has been very prudent with their finances. Look at all the upgrades in equipment in the past 11 years. Look at the amount of properly trained and equipped manpower they turn out with, and their response times.

From what I understand, it will be a very modest firehouse, with the purpose mainly being to house apparatus and support the response.

Having many friends and family in Yorktown Heights, and my wife being born and raised there with her parents still living there, I know that Yorktown Heights is lucky to have high-quality protection from YHFD, and YVAC, with a very modest tax rate.

I've seen the system work for myself on several occasions, especially dispatching for YHFD and participating in other related activities with YHFD. I've had many friends currently in or past members of YHFD who have gone on to very succesful careers with very high profile, high quality agencies. That just further proves how the YHFD has some really top-notch members.

Also,it's not "speculation", it's a discussion. Anyone who really cares about their department should be open to and welcome criticism, and comparing different systems and delivery models, should know that being defensive is like putting your hands over you ears and saying that

To the member who invited everyone to the Commisioners meeting because of "speculation", since I cannot make it there from Texas, I hope you will take notes from that meeting and present them here.

Now that's not something I hear used often with the words Yorktown and taxes....modest. Actually a little surprised you would call it that being the staunch critic of Greenburgh taxes and fire district taxes in that area. I have friends that do nothing but shake their heads at their tax rates.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

All I'm going to say is I still think it was very sneaky the way the construction is being funded, by forging ahead and making the project funds a district budget item, despite the fact Yorktown taxpayers previously knocked down the construction bond proposals.

How is it sneaky? If they took a fiscally responsible approach to accumulate the monies needed to do the project without having to raise taxes based on a public referendum to secure a bond...then I say bravo to them. If anything the tax payers should be happy they did it in a way that used existing funds.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Well this appears to be the $1,000,000 questions.....How many responders are available in this part of the district to go to the fire station to get the rig? Now if the plans had accommodations that might attract members to hang out and then it may not matter, but it does not.

I asked a family member who lives in the district what they thought and I followed that up with a a call to another member. They both answered the same:

No members.....NONE.....Nada..... live in Yorktown south end of town. Now I'm taking them at their word, if this is true, how much fire protecction will this house provide? It means that the 2nd due rig will always beat a rig from this station. Since it will go lights & siren, while any crew going to this house will not.

The general opinion is that while YHFD is very strong, it is not strong enough to staff this station and rigs will just sit there. The idea of this station started when the department was much stronger, but like almost every dept. manning is dropping.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Bnechis

[Bnechis 3,961]

How is it sneaky? If they took a fiscally responsible approach to accumulate the monies needed to do the project without having to raise taxes based on a public referendum to secure a bond...then I say bravo to them. If anything the tax payers should be happy they did it in a way that used existing funds.

Ok, it may not be sneaky, but it was not using "existing funds". The taxpayers were very vocal in there opposition. They voted no bond, but they also stated "NO FIRE STATION". They had protests and there were letters to the papers etc. about this. The board of commissioners said they would build it anyway and found millions of tax payer money to do it. Now thats after they had already purchased the land. Where did those millions come from....they raised the operating budget (i.e. raised the tax rate) over the last 5-10 years and took the money from the homeowners. Now if it is true that the fire department (not the district) can not provide proper staffing for this station, the district should return the money to the tax payers who were over charged.

I have no problem with the commissioners forward thinking on the need for a 3rd station. And often the community will fight against a new and very needed station (this is the same community that will fight to keep it once its established). But this does not appear to be the time to build a fire station, fill it with apparatus and not have the staff to operate and maintain it.