FDNY Special Fire and EMS apparatus

[spunky2268 3]

All,

I've attempted to do an extensive search of Google, this site, Nycfire.net, among others and have used multiple search terms with no satisfaction. I even tried searching American Lafrance's and Blue Bird's websites for selected apparatus. I would like to increase my department's and region's abilities when providing firefighter rehab and care for patients at major medical events. I would like to duplicate the capabilities found on FDNY's RAC, logistics support units, the MERV and, in particular, the Mobile Respiratory Treatment Unit. There are plenty of exterior pictures of all of these units. What I would like, if any of you can provide, is a detailed (or reasonably so) list of the materials carried on the RAC's and LSU's Also, if you have any interior pictures of the MERV and MRTU and the inventories carried on those units, that would be appreciated. This will help me get additional ideas of what items to purchase and stock on apparatus in my neck of the woods.

Thanks and stay safe,

Spunky

[quervo2300 0]

well first off the RAC units are dispatched to all fires and basically are a big water cooler. they supply hydrating beverages for ff's at the job. In the summer they have wet towels to cool off with. The MERV if im not mistaken show up to all 2nd alarms and greater. It is basically a huge ambulance that is the size of a coach bus. They can check you CO levels in your body to treat injuries. They can treat several patients at once. So think of the merv as a huge ALS ambulance that can treat mulitple patients inside.

[foreman1923 22]

The LSU,Merv 2 and MRTU 1 are all out my ems station in the Bronx I'll see what I can do for you when I get back to work....

[ny10570 745]

I can help you out with the EMS side of your equipment lists. Just out of curiosity, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with a MERV, LSU, and MRTU? I only ask because over the years we've learned a lot about our equipment and allegedly the next MERV will be substantially different from its most recent iteration, the LSU needs an overhaul, and the MRTU was supposed to be obsolete but may be the only one that will be closely replicated in its next form.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Inside MERV 1:

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Not the greatest, but gives you an idea with the RAC, pull out tray with coolers and the pop up tent, mist fans, chairs, etc

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Few more RAC interior shots:

[FDNYDCHI 38]

from looking at the RAC pictures it would appear it is a mobile water cooler.

[M' Ave 1,466]

from looking at the RAC pictures it would appear it is a mobile water cooler.

More or less. It carries water, gatorade and wet towels in the summer. Obviously it has the tent you see above. It's pretty simple, does the job.

[helicopper 1,050]

More or less. It carries water, gatorade and wet towels in the summer. Obviously it has the tent you see above. It's pretty simple, does the job.

How is it staffed? Do they do any medical assessments for rehab or is it strictly a "have a drink and go"?

[everybodygoes 331]

Its a fireman who is on light duty, it has gatorade and water, and wet towels, that is it. If you need an assessment it is your own choice unless you come out looking like walking dead. If you are a volunteer organization good luck getting someone to fill up the ice on a daily basis, its hard to remember on the truck, let alone when it is sitting out of site and out of mind.

[nycmedic 65]

The FDNY MERV's is a waste of resources and poorly designed. They can only carry two patients that are supine. Which is the same amount our ambulances can carry.

[M' Ave 1,466]

How is it staffed? Do they do any medical assessments for rehab or is it strictly a "have a drink and go"?

There is a RAC for each Boro and it's a light duty detail. I know that RAC 1 turns out of E91 and RAC 3 from R3. They do no assessment. It's towels and drinks only. Every 10-75 gets an assignment from EMS. You need medical, there's going to be at least 2 buses and a EMS boss around.

[everybodygoes 331]

You can carry more than two supine patients, ask me how I know! Still a pointless design, when was the last time they had a need for 10 o2 spots.

[ny10570 745]

You can carry more than two supine patients, ask me how I know! Still a pointless design, when was the last time they had a need for 10 o2 spots.

CO exposure last year in queens generated 20 something patients. Look for a new MRTU and redesigned MERV more suited to establishing a sheltered treatment/rehab area rather than a transport unit in the near future.

[spunky2268 3]

10-75 - I REALLY appreciate the pictures. Those help a lot and I haven't been able to find them elsewhere on the internet.

Others, although I appreciate your input, I'm not looking for opinions of how the FDNY uses their equipment and what is a waste. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I need some focused help. I am also familiar with the basic mission and staffing for these units. What I want to do is to add to our list of rehab items and augment our local & regional mass casualty capability. I have my own list of items, but I'd like to see what FDNY uses since I have a similar sized unit I want to convert, either to a RAC, LSU or combination of those capabilities. For instance, in spending hours mining the internet for info, I found that the LSU carries an oxygen manifold to augment other apparatus on scene. I think that's a good idea and I'll add it to my inventory list. So, if you have access to the information of what is stocked on the LSU and RAC, or provide a picture of the interior of the LSU (10-75, thanks again for the interior pic of the RAC), I would appreciate it. Once I get my list together and determine a direction to go with my apparatus, I'll post a list of what I assembled in this thread.

The MERV and MRTU are pipe dreams at this point. Before I went to nursing school, I worked as a respiratory therapist, so the MRTU concept really appeals to me. I have close contacts in DMAT, MMRS, US&R, MRC, and local health department, and can maybe get some $$$ together and support to develop one of these for our region. Oh, and I've looked (drooled) over the Sartin busses, too, but FDNY has had a MERV for a long time, so getting some tips about the MERV and MTRU inventories will help develop this capability here.

Thanks to all for your help. Stay safe.

The LSU,Merv 2 and MRTU 1 are all out my ems station in the Bronx I'll see what I can do for you when I get back to work....

Great foreman! Can't wait.

[ny10570 745]

I'll have a list for you in the afternoon of everything stocked on the LSU, MERV, and MRTU but the reason I'm asking about your intended purpose wasn't because of my opinion of their functionality. It is more along the lines of just because FDNY is doing it, that has zero bearing on what you should be doing. Personally I'd be more concerned with why after so many years FDNY appears to be getting away from their norm and what the future holds.

Anytime a dept FDNY or any other breaks from an established tradition, that too me is far more valuable for learning then a repeat of the tried and true.

[everybodygoes 331]

LSU is nothing more than a utility body on an F450 Chassis. Just add backboards. Another pointless apparatus in the fleet, I think it was created cause they bought too many of the utility rigs and had to do something with them.

[spunky2268 3]

Thank you, ny10570. I understand your point of view. My comments weren't directed at your post. I saw some value in your post. All to often, people chime in with opinions like "that is useless" or "you won't need that" on forums and fail to answer the posters questions, or present any facts to back up their opinion. Or, completely derail the direction of the thread. Hence, my last post. I have no issue with a person's opinion, but simply want my question answered.

More than likely, I will combine the tasks of what FDNY does with the RAC, with a modified inventory from the LSU. Seeing pictures and having stock lists helps me to visualize how to pack it all up and triggers me to think of things we might be missing. I don't want to duplicate either unit. I want to make our unit the best for our needs.

You speak of tradition. Do you feel that the FDNY does not use the MERV or MRTU as they were intended? Was the MERV used differently back in the days of NYC EMS? As some posters suggest, are these units of little value to the EMS Bureau? I don't totally believe that, as I have a laundry list of missions that either unit could accomplish. Most likely, for our area, the MERV, as pictured in an earlier post, with locations for additional supine patients would accomplish both missions.

Thank you for your help and stay safe,

Spunky

[meat441 43]

New Jersey created the state wide EMS Task Force after 9/11. Currently the group consists of EMT's/Paramedic's from across the state. NJ EMS Task Force has in it's vehicle roster, Medium duty Mass Care unit's, Large Mass Care unit's, Staging Trailers, Mini ambulances, Patient care and transport buses, Mobile Hospitals and other equipment that's been placed through out the state. The medium duty Mass Care unit's provide care for up to 50 patients. The Large Mass Care Unit's handle 100 patients. The new Mass Care Buses have been arriving. They can treat and transport multiple patients. They can be used especially for evacuations of nursing homes that may loose power. I believe the buses can transport around 15 streatcher patients, number maybe higher.

In 1985 i co-designed the only Mass Casualty Vehicle with a capability of handling 56 patients on oxygen simultaneously through a manifold system. 6 H size oxygen bottles vehicle mounted, were connected into a MANIFOLD system that distributed to exterior ports of a Large Step Van, then set for distribution through 8 Multilators. The vehicle was utilized for 1993 World Trade Center Bombing where it was positioned in front of Tower #2. It was placed between a NYCEMS MERV and New York Transit Bus to provide continueous oxygen through out the entire incident. The Multilators ran off the MCRU and into these vehicles. At no time did the system deplete it's oxygen supply. Additional H bottles were continuosly brought to the MCRU from New Jersey for replenishment. At that time NYCEMS had their hands full and was easier for us to do the replenishment. Almost 20 H bottles were utilized. The system could be broken down and made portable within a few minutes for multiple treatment areas or other uses.

9/11 it was utilized as a treatment center in the Hoboken Bus Terminal.

The system is actually very easy to design (BUT), caution needs to be taken when building it. (CLEAN AREA) Ambulance manufacturer would be better for LIABILITY issues. In 1985 things were different. But the concept is still the same.

If you like, i could hook you up with the person who has been heavily involved with the NJ EMS Task Force Vehicle designs. I will provide some Task Force vehicle photo's.

[meat441 43]

This also part of the New Jersey EMS Task Force.http://www.humcfoundation.com/site/PageServer?pagename=mrrp

[PEMO3 523]

You speak of tradition. Do you feel that the FDNY does not use the MERV or MRTU as they were intended? Was the MERV used differently back in the days of NYC EMS? As some posters suggest, are these units of little value to the EMS Bureau? I don't totally believe that, as I have a laundry list of missions that either unit could accomplish. Most likely, for our area, the MERV, as pictured in an earlier post, with locations for additional supine patients would accomplish both missions.

Spunky, when I was detailed to a BLS unit in the Bronx in the 1980's the person that was assigned MERV driver (other than the one dedicated 8-4 operator) would be recalled back to Jacobi to pick up MERV 2 to respond to a scene. The second crew member on the unit would follow the MERV with the ambulance to the scene unless there was a spare person at the station to fill out the crew. On some occasions you would be directed to pick up an MD and 2 RNs from the ER then respond. The MERVs were designed to be used as part of the treatment sector at an MCI and while transport capable it was not their primary goal or function. While some people here do not see the value of such a unit I can tell you first hand as a treatment sector resource they were useful.

[spunky2268 3]

PEM03!!! Exactly what I was getting at with my MERV/MRTU "rant" and how it SHOULD be utilized! A great way to bring definitive care to a crisis with all the bells and whistles! So many of these "preparedness" companies would have us blow up a Zumro or assemble a Western Shelter and work out of one of those. And, a unit like this is under utilized (though at times appropriately so) as a rehab or "warming" unit. I guess I've derailed my own thread... My vision for this resource in our region is just as you describe. Thank you for posting.

Speaking of derailing, but in a GREAT direction, thanks to Meat441 for your input. I love the NJ EMS TF setup. Ohio is behind the times on Ambulance Strike Teams and Medical Task Forces. Thanks for posting. As an aside, I got to work with some of the folks with the NJ US&R task force in 2002 when I went through my formal FEMA US&R training. Great group of people.

[ny10570 745]

Sorry about the delay in the info you asked for. My comp went down. I'll get the lists up tomorrow when I have a few minutes

[spunky2268 3]

Sorry about the delay in the info you asked for. My comp went down. I'll get the lists up tomorrow when I have a few minutes

Thanks, ny10570.