Basement firefighting tactics

[TimesUp 148]

How to fight a basement fire?

Any ideas?

[antiquefirelt 994]

How to fight a basement fire?

Any ideas?

Evidence that just going to a lot of fires is not enough.

[ny10570 745]

Since when is entering a window a good idea for a basement fire?

[everybodygoes 331]

Take the windows for god's sakes! And FIVE guys standing around outside!

Edited January 16, 2012 by everybodygoes

[TimesUp 148]

Basement fires can be rough, but taking a hoseline through a window down into a basement is unheard of. In the video you can't hear the conversation but you can see the tactic develop as soon as the one guy see's the fire in the basement window. I can't imagine why so many guys don't have turnout gear on, but in other videos by the same guy there is more of the same.

[INIT915 1,119]

Looking at their website, they seem to be a pretty busy agency.

[SECTMB 612]

I have two comments.

1. Ironic that today firehouse.com has an article on firefighter obesity!

2. You guys, and you know who you are, tell me some more about the greater levels of training and competency of paid 'professional' departments.

Oh yea!!!

[Ladder44 73]

uhhhhh i know things are different outside the northeast part of the US but uhhhhhhhhh

[TimesUp 148]

I have two comments.

1. Ironic that today firehouse.com has an article on firefighter obesity!

2. You guys, and you know who you are, tell me some more about the greater levels of training and competency of paid 'professional' departments.

Oh yea!!!

This is Indiana. What their training standards are I don't know. I would have to say they're lacking in S.O.P's for Basement fires.

[Bnechis 3,961]

2. You guys, and you know who you are, tell me some more about the greater levels of training and competency of paid 'professional' departments.

Oh yea!!!

So you know what the training standard in Indiana is compared with NY?

"You Get What You Pay for" - Do you think any busy dept. in NY would have the cream of the crop lining up for $13/hr.?

[Bnechis 3,961]

This is Indiana. What their training standards are I don't know. I would have to say they're lacking in S.O.P's for Basement fires.

101 - Mandatory Training

Course Description: 48 hours Course Downloads:

The purpose of the Mandatory Firefighter course is to provide entry level firefighters with the knowledge and skills to meet the minimum jrequirements as outlined in IC 36-8-10.5-7. Candidates must demonstrate the knowledge and skills necessary to function safely and effectively on emergency scenes and be able to perform the basic tasks assigned. To obtain certification candidates must successfully complete the practical skills, score at least a 70% on the state written exam and meet ALL prerequisites prior to testing. Candidates should expect to spend study and practice time outside of class to prepare for the written and practical examinations

102 - Firefighter I

Course Description: 140 hours Course Downloads:

The purpose of the Firefighter I course is to provide entry level firefighters with the knowledge and skills to meet the minimum job performance requirements as outlined in NFPA 1001. Candidates must demonstrate the knowledge and skills necessary to function safely and effectively on emergency scenes and be able to perform the basic tasks assigned. To obtain certification candidates must successfully complete the practical skills, score at least a 70% on the state written exam and meet ALL prerequisites prior to testing. Candidates should expect to spend study and practice time outside of class to prepare for the written and practical examinations.

My link

Indiana, like NY is an OSHA state so at a minimum the fire brigade & hazmat ops are legal minimums.

I could not find any laws on line that mandate training there. From the states training site it looks like the minimum training for any ff is course 101....48 hours (so even less than NY volunteers) but look at ff1...its twice as long as NY's (so it meets NFPA). Thats why many states will not accept NYS FF1.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Bnechis

[FirNaTine 370]

Excellent training video on what not to do! What a disaster! Does anybody out there wear gear? This is the 2nd video of them takin a line in thru a basement window. It must b part of their SOPS. Every video ive seen of them looks like nothing but mass chaos. What are the Standards to get on that Job just b breathing?

Edited January 17, 2012 by FirNaTine

[FirNaTine 370]

So you know what the training standard in Indiana is compared with NY?

"You Get What You Pay for" - Do you think any busy dept. in NY would have the cream of the crop lining up for $13/hr.?

Barry not for nothing but many guys out there do the Job cause their heart is into it and actually enjoy it not so much for the $$$$$, although it is nice to to be fairly compensated for it.

[FirNaTine 370]

How to fight a basement fire?

Any ideas?

Fire everyone and start over!

[FFPCogs 863]

Gary, IN is a pretty busy and poor surburb of Chicago, similar I'm told to say Camden, NJ or similar city call and fire volume wise. That said they are notorious for being the "what not to do" Dept in many a video. Anyone remember the overloaded portable ladder collapse a few years ago? As for the IN standards and certifications, like any other state's they're all well and good but useless if not applied. Paper doesn't put fires out, much less do it safely and no matter how much of it you have it still won't.

Watch and learn not to make the same mistakes is the best advice you an take away from these types of videos.

Stay Safe

Cogs

Edited January 17, 2012 by FFPCogs

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry not for nothing but many guys out there do the Job cause their heart is into it and actually enjoy it not so much for the $$$$$, although it is nice to to be fairly compensated for it.

I am well aware of that. If it was about the money I would have followed my father and gone corporate.

But, When you top out at $27,000 before taxes and there are other FD's withing 30 miles that are making $65,000.......you are not going to get the best.

[JFLYNN 681]

I have two comments.

1. Ironic that today firehouse.com has an article on firefighter obesity!

2. You guys, and you know who you are, tell me some more about the greater levels of training and competency of paid 'professional' departments.

Oh yea!!!

Are you really in the 50-60 age range? Judging by the # 2 comment as well as the "Oh yea!!!!" I would have guessed much younger???

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I have two comments.

1. Ironic that today firehouse.com has an article on firefighter obesity!

2. You guys, and you know who you are, tell me some more about the greater levels of training and competency of paid 'professional' departments.

Oh yea!!!

Oh I don't know..the fact that to get through the door as a professional you have to meet several standards that are non existent in volunteer ranks. Like written testing, a physical agility, more frequent and stringent testing at a minimum of 229 hours of basic training versus 87 hours. A requirement of 100 hours of training per year versus what..some say 8 but when you factor in BBP, hazmat refresher and few others maybe 15?

Not sure what argument you're exactly trying to make...but there is no comparison that professional firefighters achieve greater frequency and levels of training...hence competency then most volunteer departments. Its just a fact of life. But..there are counselors out there to help you get over it. Funny thing is I don't think I'm one of the one's who "knows who you are." But I know a shot when I see when...and I'm never one not to fire back when need be.

On a side note...from reading the description and listening to the rise in some of the voices and reading body language, I'm wondering if the incident they describe with firefighters running into issues in the basement hadn't occurred then and they just reacted in a less then optimal way. Either way...anything you enter into..you have to think to yourself (at least I do or would) that I may have to also come back out this way and in a more hasty way then I came in. There is no way your exiting that window in a rapid manner unless its make bigger.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Good observation John.

Barry...but what do you mean...when the discussion of how the curriculum needs to be expanded in time, add CPR w/ first aid there are organizations that represent a certain contingent of firefighters in NY State that say its too long, compare to the EMTB course and say it will kill part of the fire service.

[Remember585 815]

Yawn.... more paid vs. volunteer crap. It's the gift that keeps on giving, Clark...

[ny10570 745]

Gary isn't about to start from scratch any time either. They shuttered half their FD not too long ago and then the city was pushing for staffing reductions on top of the closings.

More and more I think Detroit has the right idea. Unincorporate wasted parts of these communities, clear the land and let nature reclaim it. If the town can't survive so be it save what you can and get these people into functional communities so we can stop throwing good money after bad.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Gary is in terrible shape. That whole area seems to be in dire straits, with cities bankrupt and crime and fire rampant. I do find it interesting that these firefighters faced with deplorable conditions in their firehouses, fire apparatus and staffing cuts take even greater risks for so little gain. You'd think that after being abused by the politicians and faced with huge cuts affecting their safety that the Union in Gary doesn't take a stand against unsafe tactics and operations where vacant buildings and defensive operations are concerned. The best leadership shows during adverse conditions, not while a city is flush with money.

As an outsider it appears that many of these hacked FD's seem to take extraordinary risks given the cuts to staff and lack of reliable equipment, while others such as Camden FD seem to have strengthened their SOPs and training to ensure the safety of their members. One cannot expect to fight fires the same way with 30% less staff and not feel the negative impact.