Flammable Liquid Storage on Rigs

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Was doing firehouse safety OSHA training tonight and when discussing storage containers for combustible liquids and aerosols in the firehouse, I began to wonder if there is a standard for storage of combustible materials or aerosols on apparatus. For example, the yellow flammable cabinets that we all know and have in our firehouses...why are there not a small on in a compartment on rigs. We have gasoline, starter fluid, etc on rigs just put where they can fit. Is there an NFPA standard for storing these materials on rigs?

Edited January 10, 2012 by PFDRes47cue

[IFCO3080 26]

Was doing firehouse safety OSHA training tonight and when discussing storage containers for combustible liquids and aerosols in the firehouse, I began to wonder if there is a standard for storage of combustible materials or aerosols on apparatus. For example, the yellow flammable cabinets that we all know and have in our firehouses...why are there not a small on in a compartment on rigs. We have gasoline, starter fluid, etc on rigs just put where they can fit. Is there an NFPA standard for storing these materials on rigs?

Im not sure about the NFPA standard but the issue of compartment space for such a storage compartment comes up. If you were to put it on an apparatus, then you would most likely lose a whole compartment to just flammable liquids, and in this tight economy where compartment space becomes a luxury due to the tight budgets, is it worth it to lose the valuable storage space?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Im not sure about the NFPA standard but the issue of compartment space for such a storage compartment comes up. If you were to put it on an apparatus, then you would most likely lose a whole compartment to just flammable liquids, and in this tight economy where compartment space becomes a luxury due to the tight budgets, is it worth it to lose the valuable storage space?

Absolutely, storage space is an issue. However, if you have one 2.5 gallon gasoline jug on your rig, and this is what most of us have, then you only need a small storage box a little bigger than the gas jug. This can be top loading, instead of front loading like the larger ones in house. If you go along these lines, you wont need more space then is already allotted for the gas jug.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Im not sure about the NFPA standard but the issue of compartment space for such a storage compartment comes up. If you were to put it on an apparatus, then you would most likely lose a whole compartment to just flammable liquids, and in this tight economy where compartment space becomes a luxury due to the tight budgets, is it worth it to lose the valuable storage space?

There have been a number of cases of fire apparatus fires that have wiped out the entire station. Most the cause was no determined, other than it starting at the rig. In the current tight times is it worth the risk for some valuable storage space?

Also there are other equipment that we carry that should not come incontact with flammable vapors: EMS equipment, rope rescue equipment, gas detectors and some texts say anything made of nylon (that one is questionable, since nylon is a petrolium based product).

Also if you are carrying a gas can, I would assume you are carrying gas powered tools.....put them in the same compartment (I have seen rigs with 3 or 4 compartments each having 1 gas can or tool).

On Rescue 4 we designed 1 compartment for "fuel tools" in addition to the standard vents it has an intrinsically safe power vent. We store multiple saws, fuel, fans, etc. here.

Another consideration is what type of can? Its getting harder and harder not to find plastic gas cans. These tend to overpressure when left in a warm compartment (consider the location of your exhaust & the higher temps of 2010 EPA engines) and when you go to open them they can spit fuel.

There are metal "SAFETY" Fuel cans that are rated as if they were the yellow cabinet. Many have built in metal spouts.

Now as a seperate issue does anyone cary propane on the rig (like for decon water heaters and air heaters for rehab tents)? If so how do you store them? I ask because we have been advised that it is illegal in NYS (NYSUB&FC) to have them inside a fire station.

[tonyc856 16]

Was doing firehouse safety OSHA training tonight and when discussing storage containers for combustible liquids and aerosols in the firehouse, I began to wonder if there is a standard for storage of combustible materials or aerosols on apparatus. For example, the yellow flammable cabinets that we all know and have in our firehouses...why are there not a small on in a compartment on rigs. We have gasoline, starter fluid, etc on rigs just put where they can fit. Is there an NFPA standard for storing these materials on rigs?

There is nothing NFPA about this. One thing to remember gas is flammable not combustible.

As far as OSHA goes, the fire service bounces back and forth between two standards, depending on what they are doing. Those two standardes are 1910 and 1926.

Under the general industary standard (1910) you need to look at 1910.106. Few things are needed to be pointed out.

One is what we store the gas in

1910.106(a)(29)

Safety can shall mean an approved container, of not more than 5 gallons capacity, having a spring-closing lid and spout cover and so designed that it will safely relieve internal pressure when subjected to fire exposure.

Under that part OSHA (and in our case PESH) can fine you for not having a flame aresstor in the can, but that will only be a De Minimis violation.

I am not anything eles in this standard about storage on a vehicle

In 1926.152 it states

1926.152((2)

Quantities of flammable and combustible liquid in excess of 25 gallons shall be stored in an acceptable or approved cabinet meeting the following requirements:

I also looked into the Dept of Health, which oversees the RIght to Know and Haz-Com in NY. I don't see any requirements there.

One suggestion I have when you purchase a new truck. Spec the cabinet that you are going to have flammable liquids in to be vented this way when you open the cabinet you don't get hit by the fumes. Least not to forget that firefighter that is always smoking while doing this.

[tonyc856 16]

"Now as a seperate issue does anyone cary propane on the rig (like for decon water heaters and air heaters for rehab tents)? If so how do you store them? I ask because we have been advised that it is illegal in NYS (NYSUB&FC) to have them inside a fire station. "

Barry you are right about the propane. Just a fire prevention thing; this goes for homes too. I see many people keep their BBQ tanks in a garage on shed, which is illegal in NY. More so I love people in apartments who bring propane inside the apartment to BBQ on their deck

[jack10562 414]

As far as carrying flammable liquids and gases on vehicles, these would fall under DOT (Department of Transportation) guidelines while on the road. The small HazMat quantities you would carry fall below the requirements for placarding the vehicle, but the products still need to be properly secured and stored and for all intents and purposes would be considered "tools of the trade"

I would suggest these vehicle storage locations include ventilated compartments, if the storage is enclosed, with no source of ignition (compartment lights, anyone?)

We're caught between a rock-and-a-hard-place as far as LP tanks being stored indoors. Good luck with that one!

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Another consideration is what type of can? Its getting harder and harder not to find plastic gas cans. These tend to overpressure when left in a warm compartment (consider the location of your exhaust & the higher temps of 2010 EPA engines) and when you go to open them they can spit fuel.

There are metal "SAFETY" Fuel cans that are rated as if they were the yellow cabinet. Many have built in metal spouts.

The "SAFETY" fuel cans seem to be the best bet, my company has a gasoline in one.

There is nothing NFPA about this. One thing to remember gas is flammable not combustible.

Derp de derp...brain fart

I would suggest these vehicle storage locations include ventilated compartments, if the storage is enclosed, with no source of ignition (compartment lights, anyone?)

Compartment lights can definitely be an ignition source. The locking mechanism on the doors making contact, slide trays, tools rubbing together can all be ignition sources. I guess one of the best choices, since it is impossible to eliminate all sources of ignition, is to have the cabinet be well ventilated. Perhaps installing a small exhaust fan that vents out the top or bottom of the truck isn't the worst option...other than it also being an ignition source.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I guess one of the best choices, since it is impossible to eliminate all sources of ignition, is to have the cabinet be well ventilated. Perhaps installing a small exhaust fan that vents out the top or bottom of the truck isn't the worst option...other than it also being an ignition source.

Read what the capt. wrote. You can get intrinsically safe vent fans for your rigs.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

On Rescue 4 we designed 1 compartment for "fuel tools" in addition to the standard vents it has an intrinsically safe power vent. We store multiple saws, fuel, fans, etc. here.

Read what the capt. wrote. You can get intrinsically safe vent fans for your rigs.

Missed that part...

Capt, can you post a picture of the cabinet that has the "fuel tools"?