ISO Class Question

[EdAngiolillo 61]

Hi, all. Its just me, TCA-ALS25, decloaked for now (until I can get my username/password issue resolved).

Anyway, I recently moved to a small suburban town NW of Philly that's undergoing some significant - and positive growth - changes.

Presently, there are 3 independent volunteer companies in town, supplemented with career personnel. The plan is to consolidate into one borough-run department. The plan is sound and well-researched and calls for the following: Station 65 will become the primary fire/rescue station. Currently, they operate a pumper, quint and tac/support truck. A new, larger and more centrally-located station will be built. Station 66 will be decertified, sadly, due to a consistent lack of response from their volunteers. As we're located along the banks of the Schuylkill River, they also operate the regional dive and swift-water rescue unit and will continue in that respect. Station 67 on the West End is primarily the EMS for the borough and several surrounding townships. The paid staff are all FF/medics and cross-staff the fire apparatus as needed (a common plan in Chester County's combination departments). They will continue exclusively as the borough's EMS, with the fire apparatus (2 pumpers and a heavy rescue) moved to the "new" department station. Station 65 will become a combination career/volunteer station, staffing TBD by the borough.

There is an excellent mutual aid agreement in place, with 2 bordering companies (with 3 stations)in-county and another company across the river in Montgomery County assigned to most boxes (either on the initial or WFD box).

Now, with all that said, the questions have become these: how will this change the borough's ISO rating and how many insurance companies actually use the ISO rating as a benchmark for setting their homeowner rates?

Hope everyone had a great holiday season and here's to a healthy, safe and prosperous 2012 to all!

[firemoose827 324]

I believe, and dont take it as gospel because I am no where near my desk right now, but ISO rates are based on a few things in your community; like water supply, whether its municipal water system with hydrants or if you rely on tanker shuttle ops. Number of trained personnel available to respond to calls, the travel distance from your stations to the farthest point in its territory, the number of trucks you have and their ability and so on. I think that if one station closes, the only thing that could affect your ISO is if the response time from the remaining stations to all areas of your district increases significantly. I hope others will help you out and make sure what I said is accurate at all though!

[Task Force 7 65]

Here is what they look for when grading a Dept.

Fire alarms

Ten percent of the overall grading is based on how well the fire department receives fire alarms and dispatches its fire-fighting resources. Our field representatives evaluate the communications center, looking at the number of operators at the center; the telephone service, including the number of telephone lines coming into the center; and the listing of emergency numbers in the telephone book. Field representatives also look at the dispatch circuits and how the center notifies firefighters about the location of the emergency.

Engine companies

Fifty percent of the overall grading is based on the number of engine companies and the amount of water a community needs to fight a fire. ISO reviews the distribution of fire companies throughout the area and checks that the fire department tests its pumps regularly and inventories each engine company's nozzles, hoses, breathing apparatus, and other equipment.

ISO also reviews the fire-company records to determine:

type and extent of training provided to fire-company personnel

number of people who participate in training

firefighter response to emergencies

maintenance and testing of the fire department's equipment

Water supply

Forty percent of the grading is based on the community's water supply. This part of the survey focuses on whether the community has sufficient water supply for fire suppression beyond daily maximum consumption. ISO surveys all components of the water supply system, including pumps, storage, and filtration. To determine the rate of flow the water mains provide, we observe fire-flow tests at representative locations in the community. Finally, we evaluate the distribution of fire hydrants.

For more information you can click here: http://www.iso.com/Products/Public-Protection-Classification-Service/Fire-Suppression-Rating-Schedule-FSRS-manual-for-PPC-grading.html

[Bnechis 3,961]

I believe, and dont take it as gospel because I am no where near my desk right now, but ISO rates are based on a few things in your community; like water supply, whether its municipal water system with hydrants or if you rely on tanker shuttle ops. Number of trained personnel available to respond to calls, the travel distance from your stations to the farthest point in its territory, the number of trucks you have and their ability and so on. I think that if one station closes, the only thing that could affect your ISO is if the response time from the remaining stations to all areas of your district increases significantly. I hope others will help you out and make sure what I said is accurate at all though!

That was a reasonable started, 1 minor correction, ISO does not consider "response time", instead they look at response distance (and they calculate how long it should take based on the distance and if the apparatus is staffed).

[EdAngiolillo 61]

Thanks! I always knew I could rely on the "experts" in the Hudson Valley! :-)

As far as response time, the study showed a centrally-located station a few blocks away from the downtown could respond just as fast to all parts of the borough as any one of the individual companies. In fact, the current three station system is really overkill in this day and age.

As far as water supply, we have hydranted water in the borough. Oddly enough, just over the border, most of the area is farming or mountains (Valley Forge National Park is about 3 miles west of me!) and requires tanker support, unless its one of the new McMansion developments.

As I said, the mutual aid agreements allow for quite a bit more apparatus and all of the companies are highly-trained and well-staffed by volunteers, although Kimberton has paid FF during the day, Mon-Sat. And one company's sub-station is actually just over the border from the borough (and down the street from the West End station)and was placed because of the aforementioned McMansion developments on an old, huge farm.

Again, thanks for the information. Stay safe and I'll have to buy you guys a round next time I get to Arlington to see my family.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Here is what they look for when grading a Dept.

Fire alarms - Ten percent

Engine companies - Fifty percent

Water supply - Forty percent

This was correct. The question asked was "Now, with all that said, the questions have become these: how will this change the borough's ISO rating and how many insurance companies actually use the ISO rating as a benchmark for setting their homeowner rates?"

1st. I am going to assume that the communications & water supply will most likely stay the same or 50% of the rating. Now since we are comparing the current fire service in the community to a proposed one, we are dealing with the remaining 50% (plus 10% for Diversion - see below).

Distribution is how far the fire station is from structures in the district. ISO considers the ideal distance at 1.5 miles (travel distance) for engines and 2.5 miles (travel distance) for ladders and/or service companies. Beyond 5 miles ISO automatically considers the property to be an ISO PPC 10 (no FD).

The biggest issue for points is personnel which is worth 15%+ (of the FD's rating). The plus is because it is open ended (it includes total number onduty and average oncall responders). It is unclear if you will be affected by this, but if you are removing the career FF's to do just EMS and do not replace them it is going to hurt you.

Next biggest (10%) is engine companies; are they properly equipped, annual pump tests, annual hose tests and do you send enough of of them on a structure call (based on the needed fire flow)?

Training (9%) this includes facilities and hours in specific areas. Having lots of members who do not do lots of training hurts a dept very bad, because they average the total number of members by the total training hours. This hurts depts that have members that no longer respond, but are considered "active or full" members.

Hours required: Recruit 240 hrs. - 46 hours per month per member - New Driver 40 hrs. Annual driver 12 hrs per year and some others.

Hopefully the new dept will do better here.

Pump capacity (do you have enough pump gpm to meet ISO's needed fire flow for the community - gennerally its 3,500 gpm and max is 5,000 gpm) is worth 5%

Truck or Service company is also worth 5% (properly equipped, annual arial tests and sent on all calls)

Note: Quints can help you here or hurt you base on the equipment and total units sent.

Distribution (travel distance) is 4%.

Then spares and a few other minor issues round it out.

Diversion is a comparrison between the FD & the water. It is worth 10% (thats above the 100% for the 3 areas looked at) and it works in the negative. If you have a great FD, but no water or you have hydrants every 100ft that flow 5,000gpm, but no FD...your community will not have a good fire outcome. SO ISO deducts up to 10% off which ever side fire or water that is statistically better than the other. If both are good, then you do not lose, but if one is good and the other poor, the poor side gets an extra reduction in credit under diversion.

Each insurance company can use the ISO info as it sees fit to determine rates and each state has some minor differences, but in general the rates drop about 8% per rating i.e. if your ISO is 10 and you pay $1,000/yr, ISO 9 would be $920/yr. ISO 8 $846/yr....etc. Since this is per property, you add up the savings for the whole community and its often many millions.

ISO is very simple and very complicated. Good Luck, If you have more questions please feel free to PM me.

[Bnechis 3,961]

As far as response time, the study showed a centrally-located station a few blocks away from the downtown could respond just as fast to all parts of the borough as any one of the individual companies. In fact, the current three station system is really overkill in this day and age.

ISO does not consider time, they look at distances (see last post)

As I said, the mutual aid agreements allow for quite a bit more apparatus and all of the companies are highly-trained and well-staffed by volunteers,

ISO gives zero credit for mutual aid. They give 90% or greater credit for automatic aid on the initial call.

[EdAngiolillo 61]

Sorry, bnechis. I should have said "distance," not time. I was thinking of the response time from the central station. Under the current system, all stations respond on a box alarm.

As far as "mutual aid," again, that may be local nomenclature here. On all initial alarms, Stations 65 and 67 respond, plus Tower 61 from Kimberton and a pumper from Valley Forge. A WFD box (working fire dispatch, what you may call a 10-75?) brings in the balance of Kimberton and Valley Forge, plus Mont Clare from across the river. Subsequent alarms are predetermined and based on location and need.

Hope that clears things up.