Accountability - How does your FD Handle it?

[Bnechis 3,961]

This came up on another thread, so lets look at this issue.

Hopefully everyone understands the importance of this issue.

How does your department handle accountability?

And does it really account for your personnel?

Do you handle the 1st rig or 2 different than once you have established a "full" command structure?

How are mutual aid agencies addressed?

How do you account for members (career or volunteers) who arrive on-scene without apparatus (i.e. buffing, POV, call back, etc.)?

[bigrig77 95]

How does your department handle accountability?

Got your name on the back of our coat and a tag on the chest

And does it really account for your personnel?

No not at all. Most times the tag is never collected. It's more a "i see him there" or " I sent him to the basement to do this" so thats where he is mentality.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Training is about complete for us on a new accountability system. It's called E.F.A.S. for Electronic Firefighter Accountability System. To echo what others around our job are saying, it's one of the most well thought out programs in a while. All command vehicles (Batt. and Div. cars) are set-up with the system. It uses our MDTS and opens with a single button push. The system is tied in with each companies riding list for the tour. In other words, each radio has and electronic I.D. number. That number correlates to a company and a position within that company (Nozzle, Roof, Irons, Boss, ect). When each tour starts, the members working are entered into the computer and so are the positions they're assigned. That computer system is tied in with the E.F.A.S.. When on scene, a member will make a transmission and that person information with pop up on the MDT screen as such:

F.F. Smith L099 - Roof (It is also time stamped.

Also, once any member of a company transmits, that company is stored as being on that incident and all of the companies show up in a different on screen box.

The list grows as members make transmissions, however, they remain on the list for the incidents duration. When someone transmits a Mayday, hopefully they push the emergency alert button on their radio. If they do, their transmissions are displayed on the screen in bright red, they also remain on top in another window. If they fail to push the emergency alert button, the member of the FAST truck who is monitering the screen may manually assign them to Mayday status.

A member from the FAST truck is responsible for monitoring this screen for the duration of the job. This includes any instances where the FAST truck may be put to work. The truck will operate without this member, they are married to this screen.

Lastly, the E.F.A.S. system has a roll-call feature. Since the system knows what units are on scene and have transmitted, it also knows how many firemen are there. When the chief hits the roll-call button on the screen, he will ask for all on scene to click their mic button 3 times (to avoid stepping on one another) and the system will record those who transmit as accounted for. Those who are not accounted for will show up in red and then they can be individually called upon to answer. Hopefully they were simply stepped on or did not click initially.

The system isn't nearly as complicated as I may have made it sound. It's fairly fire dept. friendly.

[MoFire390 118]

This came up on another thread, so lets look at this issue.

Hopefully everyone understands the importance of this issue.

How does your department handle accountability?

And does it really account for your personnel?

Do you handle the 1st rig or 2 different than once you have established a "full" command structure?

How are mutual aid agencies addressed?

How do you account for members (career or volunteers) who arrive on-scene without apparatus (i.e. buffing, POV, call back, etc.)?

Good topic...

Montrose we have different color tags to ID interior, from exterior firefighters. Interior- Green Exterior- Red. Usually a deputy chief or Chief gets the tags of the firefighters who are operating inside the structure, members riding the rigs usually tag out on the pump panel so the driver knows who was on his rig. we also have our names on both our helmets, and coats. as well as having our badge numbers as our identifier for our company issued protables.

Mutal aid companies I'm not too sure about sorry I cannot answer that question. I will attempt to find out for you.

[antiquefirelt 994]

8-10 years ago we determined that if we had a catastrophic event on the fireground the best we could do would be to send a member back to the station and see who's gear was on the hook: that meant they were not in trouble! We developed a system we beleive works when properly and routinely implemented, meaning everyone must fully understand and use it on every run. This has not always been the case I hate to admit, but a re-dedication to the system has begun and it seems hard to argue with wanting to ensure our members safety no matter how tedious some of the details seem on trivial calls.

Our system requires the use of two clip on ID tags. One denotes your presence on the fireground, the second your entry point or assignment. On duty staff give their tags to the driver who tosses them in the same spot of the given apparatus. The second tag upon arrival gets left at the door clipped either to a "TAG IN" ring that most carry (doubles as a glove holder) or a cone with a wire ring on top (generally later in an operation). Later arriving off duty or call members must go to the Resource Pool location at the lead pumper and tag their first (fireground) tag to the cone at that location and upon assignment give their tag to to the IC or his aide (an assigned position) or depending on the complexity and the IC, tag an entry point cone.

One of the key points to accountability is that it has to be more than just who's at the fire and who's not. Our system relies on the first due personnel being accountable to their officer(s) and later arriving personnel working through the resource pool to ensure the IC knows who is assigned to what task, the location and who's the officer of the crew. Because personnel do not arrive in true company form, this allows us to make crews on the fly.

Part of our past issues with the system was our officers being directly involved in initial tasks due to poor staffing. This allowed personnel arriving after the firs due to enter the fireground with little or no supervision and begin working without clear assignments. While our training and some (maybe a lot) of luck kept us out of trouble, it failed upon an honest review of our accountability and command policies. Thus the senior first due officer will no longer be involved in interior tasks short of known rescues or circumstances beyond "normal". We finally have had to back up and say, "we're only able to do so much with what we're given, we cannot assume even greater risk for the shortsightedness of politicians and number crunchers". Continually ignoring 2 in 2 out really was far to risky for our personnel and those initial IC's. Now if we have to decide between a line or immediate search that's what happens, no more doing both regardless of crew size. Sadly this is routinely a high potential scenario due to our on duty staff running EMS calls day and night.

Oh, you asked about M/A as well, maybe tomorrow...

Edited December 28, 2011 by antiquefirelt

[wraftery 1,275]

Bnechis asks

"Do you handle the 1st rig or 2 different than once you have established a "full" command structure?"

Of course, Barry. Why? Because we work in companies and 1 or 2 things is easy to keep track of.

It's the "Stop and Shop Theory."

If I say to my wife "I'm going to the hardware store, do you need anything while I'm out?"

She says "Get milk and bread." I don't have to write it down...it's only 2 things. I'll remember that.

If she adds one more thing..."Oh and get salad dressing." I instinctively start a list...I'm moving toward that magic number 5 in my span of control. When they say ICS can be used for everything, take it to heart. By the time I get out of the house there will be ten items on that list, but I was prepared because of ICS.

Next week's lesson will be:

Sunday afternoon Rehab Training. See how the NFL, a Bud Lite, and a recliner fit into ICS.

[M' Ave 1,466]

I remember the tag system from a previous volunteer membership. It has its roots in simplicity, and that's a good thing, but my experience with it was a failed experience. It's a lot to ask for a guy to take a tag and put it some place on the pump panel when he's one of the first people on scene and rushing to do a search or grab the first line. It just doesn't happen.

Budgets are tight these days, but there is no reason that we can't justify the cost of assigning a radio to every interior qualified member in the volunteer setting. No one should be operating inside a fire building without one. I know they're expensive, but so is that tower ladder, second aerial, Q sirens and 14 million LED lights.....let's prioritize and get members the gear they deserve for safety's sake.

[flyboy14295 4]

In my department, we have the two tag system.

I can't remember the last time the two were separated.....

The best line I have heard from an officer at a fire I was at, "Is everyone out of the house?" I don't think that should EVER be a question.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I remember the tag system from a previous volunteer membership. It has its roots in simplicity, and that's a good thing, but my experience with it was a failed experience. It's a lot to ask for a guy to take a tag and put it some place on the pump panel when he's one of the first people on scene and rushing to do a search or grab the first line. It just doesn't happen.

There is a lot of truth to this paragraph. It is unfortunate that often far too many firefighters fail to realize the importance of utilizing whatever accountability measures are in place, every single time they step off the truck.

Budgets are tight these days, but there is no reason that we can't justify the cost of assigning a radio to every interior qualified member in the volunteer setting. No one should be operating inside a fire building without one. I know they're expensive, but so is that tower ladder, second aerial, Q sirens and 14 million LED lights.....let's prioritize and get members the gear they deserve for safety's sake.

While I agree with the every member gets a radio, I'm not seeing a direct correlation to accountability? They are able to call for help if needed (and able) but the radio doesn't tell the IC who's on the fireground, their location or assignment unless they stand fast until receiving said assignment via the radio?

[Bnechis 3,961]

In my department, we have the two tag system....... The best line I have heard from an officer at a fire I was at, "Is everyone out of the house?" I don't think that should EVER be a question.

This is exactly what I was looking for.

If the officer asks that: the response (in mass from everyone on scene) should be: "Why doesn't the IC, Safety or accountability officer know the answer".

The primary reason, is either you are not doing accountability at all or you are (like most depts) using a tag system which is basicly a flawed system.

If followed regularly, the tag system lets you know how many bodies are there and after the fire is over and you find the dead firefighter in the basement, you know who he was because he did not claim his tag.

Antiquefirelt's version is a slight step up (particularly if only dealing with small residential fires). Placing the tag at the entry point works better...then I know who did not come out of the structure, but it still does not tell me where in the structure they are, what they are doing and how long have they been in (wow 1 hour on a 30 minute bottle...I think we have a problem). On bigger building with multiple entrances how is this going to work?

If there needs to be an evacuation, do we know if everyone made it out prior to opening up the master streams?

Do you do par checks to make sure everyone is accounted for?

Has your dept. done an evac drill?

I watch a few, and they went something like this: All units evacuate the building (3x on radio) & airhorns blasting on the rigs (btw go in the basement of a house under fire conditions and you will not hear the airhorns). Everyone comes out and some officer then starts to go thru the tags, matching them up with members. Now since this is a drill lets assume that everyone remembered to leave their tag. It took about 20-30 minutes to confirm everyone was accounted for. If you were inside on air for 12 minutes before the evac signal and it takes 20+ minutes to account for everyone, how long have you been in respiratory arrest?

[Bnechis 3,961]

While I agree with the every member gets a radio, I'm not seeing a direct correlation to accountability? They are able to call for help if needed (and able) but the radio doesn't tell the IC who's on the fireground, their location or assignment unless they stand fast until receiving said assignment via the radio?

Under "M's" description of FDNY's new accountability system, the radio (when keyed) tells the command post what radio it is, who has it and what their riding assignment is. Based on the assignment they generally know where a member should be operating (ie. roof, floor above, pump etc.).

Motorola sells the software to do this (FDNY went with another vendor) and there are other features of both systems that FDNY opted not to have. They include; "polling" which means the radio when turned on in range of the system will automatically advise the system its there, it will also show when a radio has been turned off or dies and showing the battery status of each portable. There is also a way for the radio to use its 16 channel sellector to have 16 predetermined assignments (roof, fire floor, command, OVM, etc.) that the memebr can turn to (while remaining on the same radio channel) and the command computer will place the "radio" into that location group.

Motorola & Scott are working to merge this radio accountability system in 2012. Using the Scott SIMS II system, but not the mesh network, they plan on using bluetooth between the SCBA and the radio so that the radio accountability system will also recieve the amount of air the ff has, and the PASS Alarm status along with the current radio system functions (evac, emergency button, polling, battery life, etc.).

We expect to do the final testing and training of this system in the next 3 weeks. I will post a follow up once it is completed.

[JM15 386]

Under "M's" description of FDNY's new accountability system, the radio (when keyed) tells the command post what radio it is, who has it and what their riding assignment is. Based on the assignment they generally know where a member should be operating (ie. roof, floor above, pump etc.).

Motorola sells the software to do this (FDNY went with another vendor) and there are other features of both systems that FDNY opted not to have. They include; "polling" which means the radio when turned on in range of the system will automatically advise the system its there, it will also show when a radio has been turned off or dies and showing the battery status of each portable. There is also a way for the radio to use its 16 channel sellector to have 16 predetermined assignments (roof, fire floor, command, OVM, etc.) that the memebr can turn to (while remaining on the same radio channel) and the command computer will place the "radio" into that location group.

Motorola & Scott are working to merge this radio accountability system in 2012. Using the Scott SIMS II system, but not the mesh network, they plan on using bluetooth between the SCBA and the radio so that the radio accountability system will also recieve the amount of air the ff has, and the PASS Alarm status along with the current radio system functions (evac, emergency button, polling, battery life, etc.).

We expect to do the final testing and training of this system in the next 3 weeks. I will post a follow up once it is completed.

Captain, Is New Rochelle FD testing out this system?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Captain, Is New Rochelle FD testing out this system?

Yes. With some modifications that should make it more flexable than what FDNY needs.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Under "M's" description of FDNY's new accountability system, the radio (when keyed) tells the command post what radio it is, who has it and what their riding assignment is. Based on the assignment they generally know where a member should be operating (ie. roof, floor above, pump etc.).

Motorola sells the software to do this (FDNY went with another vendor) and there are other features of both systems that FDNY opted not to have. They include; "polling" which means the radio when turned on in range of the system will automatically advise the system its there, it will also show when a radio has been turned off or dies and showing the battery status of each portable. There is also a way for the radio to use its 16 channel sellector to have 16 predetermined assignments (roof, fire floor, command, OVM, etc.) that the memebr can turn to (while remaining on the same radio channel) and the command computer will place the "radio" into that location group.

Motorola & Scott are working to merge this radio accountability system in 2012. Using the Scott SIMS II system, but not the mesh network, they plan on using bluetooth between the SCBA and the radio so that the radio accountability system will also recieve the amount of air the ff has, and the PASS Alarm status along with the current radio system functions (evac, emergency button, polling, battery life, etc.).

We expect to do the final testing and training of this system in the next 3 weeks. I will post a follow up once it is completed.

Sounds like a great system when there aren't dedicated members to each function at every call... i.e. the volunteer realm.

The volunteers, and I say that by means of unstaffed departments where it is a crap shoot as to who shows up, are in need a system that can adapt and change with the number of personnel on scene. What was designed for FDNY is fantastic, but in all seriousness, can only work when there is down time during roll call to update who is actually working, and what position they're riding in. It is basically impossible for this system to work in a volunteer department, especially when you have guys showing up in POV's, ect ect.

Sitting here right now, I've thought of a few idea's that could incorporate the system that NRFD will be testing out, that could work for a volunteer department. However, It would require a lot of upgraded radios, and a small upgrade to gear.

Based off the system that the Capt stated above, what if each FF was issued an RFID tag (http://en.wikipedia...._identification) that was stitched into either his coat's radio pocket, or his radio strap or both. That RFID would label all the normal accountability information of who it is, what department they're from, age, gender, blood type, medical history, all the important personal stuff. The great thing about the RFID tag is that is requires no batteries to operate. It's the same thing that are placed into pets between their shoulder blades for identification if they're ever lost.

The radio itself, would then also double as an extremely low powered RFID reader, so when it's placed in either the radio pocket or the holster, it reads who it is, and transfers all the information to the base station. This could be coupled with the assignment that the FF is completing that the Capt. was referring to.

I'm sure they must already be looking into something like this though.

Edited December 28, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[antiquefirelt 994]

BNECHIS makes a good point about the tag systems and our modified system in particular: First the tag system is basically just an "I'm here somewhere" system, the "upgrade" in our system is the entry point cone, which again, as noted, is fairly simple for smaller residential structures, but says little about the personnel beyond that point when the building is vast.

One part of our system that assists us in tracking who is where is the "Resource Pool" check-in/assignment stop. While this doesn't account for the initial first due crews, it allows the IC to step up the system by assigning later arriving crews to specific groups or divisions and know where they are, who the crew leader is, and the officer overseeing that group or division. Air management as a "command function" is not part of how we operate currently. I understand the UK and other countries make a strict practice of accounting for personnel who are "on air" and likely that's in not far from where we'll be in the US in the future.

Hopefully the radio's, SIMS and other technological advances will become more accessible for smaller FD's. Right now the costs and logistics of trialing these systems do not make them a realistic option for a large number of us. To even consider making any system better you must evaluate and understand the limitations and realities you deal with. Having personnel arrive in stages with no specific company or officer makes managing them far more challenging. I'm hoping to see some ideas we've not seen or tried.

[M' Ave 1,466]

While I agree with the every member gets a radio, I'm not seeing a direct correlation to accountability? They are able to call for help if needed (and able) but the radio doesn't tell the IC who's on the fireground, their location or assignment unless they stand fast until receiving said assignment via the radio?

The Capt. gave a good explanation of what is available. To reiterate simply, if everyone has a radio and the SOP is that they key it up when they arrive, at least you'll know who's there and operating. It's a modern "two tag" system. Basically, with a radio we have the tool of a digital signature to capture and record.

Again, this should be center stage right now. Put every other expense on hold and make the radio accountability purchase that works best for your department. This is our safety and it's more important than everyone else's.

[JohnnyOV 2]

The Capt. gave a good explanation of what is available. To reiterate simply, if everyone has a radio and the SOP is that they key it up when they arrive, at least you'll know who's there and operating. It's a modern "two tag" system. Basically, with a radio we have the tool of a digital signature to capture and record.

Again, this should be center stage right now. Put every other expense on hold and make the radio accountability purchase that works best for your department. This is our safety and it's more important than everyone else's.

This should really be addressed at the County level. One department's accountability is far different then their neighbors. The entire system in the county is flawed. When their is so much M/A that occurs, wouldn't it make sense to actually use a system that is interopertable... much like the radios?

[JM15 386]

This should really be addressed at the County level. One department's accountability is far different then their neighbors. The entire system in the county is flawed. When their is so much M/A that occurs, wouldn't it make sense to actually use a system that is interopertable... much like the radios?

Exactly... This county needs to get together and come up with a single accountability system. One that is interoperable between departments.

[Bnechis 3,961]

This should really be addressed at the County level. One department's accountability is far different then their neighbors. The entire system in the county is flawed. When their is so much M/A that occurs, wouldn't it make sense to actually use a system that is interopertable... much like the radios?

I agree it needs to be on a county level. but you can't just put together an accountability system, until you standardize a few things: ICS, response patterns, training, equipment, sop's, manning...etc.

Look at the other thread which shows every dept has a different standard for what it sends to a structure call. How do you standardize accountability when there are 59 different minimum standards for staffing (from a minimum of 3ff's to a minimum of 26 for the same type of call).

Exactly... This county needs to get together and come up with a single accountability system. One that is interoperable between departments.

I have been an advocate of this for many years. I call it consolidation.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bnechis

[M' Ave 1,466]

I have been an advocate of this for many years. I call it consolidation.

My favorite topic.....also the answer to a great deal of problems with the fire service in Westchester County.

[Bnechis 3,961]

My favorite topic.....also the answer to a great deal of problems with the fire service in Westchester County.

Thanks.

I find it amazing how the last few posts lead up to that answer.

I was going to give you a rep point for it....but I saw you are at 343 and I just could not do it (yet).

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Exactly... This county needs to get together and come up with a single accountability system. One that is interoperable between departments.

I'm going to agree that the emphasis of this discussion should be forward enough looking to make standardization of radio equipment in the "somehow that's impossible" County of Westchester.

IF I had a dollar for every time I heard one particular gent, involved supposedly with all things radio on the County level, announce a new radio initiative that was going to bring all fire departments together on portables, blah blah.....

Somebody else mentioned this to still be a problem, now it's about inter operable accountability, in the County. To this I say shame on the involved parties and the vendors who play radio games like cell phone service providers play different pricing plan games. And in the end, you somehow wind up with something that doesn't quite fit the billing. Seen it too many times.

[61MACKBR1 222]

I agree it needs to be on a county level. but you can't just put together an accountability system, until you standardize a few things: ICS, response patterns, training, equipment, sop's, manning...etc.

Look at the other thread which shows every dept has a different standard for what it sends to a structure call. How do you standardize accountability when there are 59 different minimum standards for staffing (from a minimum of 3ff's to a minimum of 26 for the same type of call).

I have been an advocate of this for many years. I call it consolidation.

Barry - Could not have said it any better. Sounds like the continued EMTBravo.net Broken Record being played over and over and over. All the wonderful technology that Emergency Service Manufacturers are putting out on the market will assist but until State, County and Local Politicians, along with Union Leaders and Department Chiefs all get on the same page and get this Countywide Consolidation Plan moving (no more Paid. Combo or Volley Departments, just 1 "Consolidated" PAID County Run Department [No Exceptions made even for the Big Cities in the County - Every single City, Town and Village - All Together), taxes will continue to go up and lives and property will continue to be placed in grave danger. No Hype, just the plain truth.

[wraftery 1,275]

Same as everything else in the Fire Service:" My FD is better than yours, my accountability system is better than yours."

There are probably hundreds of accountability systems out there, some cheap like the forest service's T-cards, some, like the radio operated system are very expensive. They all work if we MAKE them work, and none work if we are just going through the motions. Someplace along the line, they all have flaws of one kind or another.

You can make any system work if we see accountability as an ATTITUDE as opposed to a system. The correct attitude starts at the bottom of the organization, the rookie, and runs all the way to the Chief. And it encompases every resource that ccomes in on mutual aid.

The Probie: You taught him the buddy system probably on the first day of proby school, right after the morning "form signing" session and before "this is an Engine, this is a Truck." You came with him, know where he is all the time. Many proby schools require all students to have a buddy all throughout the school. You cannot even go to the bathroom without that buddy going along.

The FF: You spend more time with the people in your firehouse than you do with any other human being. You call him your brother. For a couple of beers and a burger, they will help you move out of your old house and into a new one. Nobody has to tell you to watch out for him because you've always had eachother's back.

The Company Officer: Like a mother duck, the company follows you and they do what you say without question. You scold them when they relieve eachother and don't write the change on the riding assignment chalkboard. You are absolutely aware of your responsibility to keep your people together and safe.

The Chief Officer: You have to have a handle on everyone on the scene including the mutual aid companies. Where are they, what are they doing, are they getting into trouble. How many times have you told a company to "back it out" and get the response "We're OK, Chief, we got it"? Did you assess quickly and decide whether to back them out or let them keep pushing? Do you strive to have FAST in place from beginning to end without interruption? Among all these things you are responsible for, you still have to read the building and the smoke that's emanating and estimate whether you are winning or losing. Are you willing to have your guys get hurt? I think not.

I think the acountability requirement started 20-25 years ago when a volunteer department had a fire where a member came along and worked the job without telling anyone he was there (or he did tell someone but it was forgotten). All returned to quarters, and the next morning the member was found dead in the basement. No one knew that he was at the fire. I cannot recall any other instance of not knowing who was there except 9/11/2001. The accounting problem there was that it happened at change of shifts and off-duty members jumped on the rigs because it was definitely the "Big One." Then two 110 story buildings collapsed onto the accountability system. The Cause was that Arab Radicals flew two planes into those buildings, and not flaws in FDNY's accountability system.

So, how, after reading all the "values" stuff above do we operate at a fire and account for all our members?

1. Operate in Companies-Groups-Divisions. The theory of ICS is in span of control. This is the easiest way for command to track everybody on the fireground

2. If mutual aid comes in with a different Accountability system use their system to account for them. If they have tags on rings, for example, use those tags when you do a PAR

3. If there are several mismatched radio systems in use, you have to have a radio outside for every radio frequency inside if you don't you can miss a mayday call.

4. If the fire is more than just a room and contents, the IC should put a trained man on the IC board. The IC can't run a complex operation and the board at the same time and do an adequate job at both functions.

5. Board men should write up a IC chart on the board which shows the assignments and not just a list of the companies on-scene. They make these boards eraseable so that you can change the chart as needed. For example if E-1 is taken off Fire Attack and sent to Rehab, and then to Staging, you can reflect this on your ICS chart. A list of on-scene companies tells you nothing except that they are someplace on-scene.

6. Give the IC a little help. Companies (or Divisions, Groups, etc.) should advise the IC by radio not only of their progress but the lack thereof as well.

7. Last but not least, when you get there, report in to the IC. When you are demobilized, report out.

Whew...talk about giving my 2 cents worth.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Does luck count?

[16fire5 693]

I'm supprised no one in our area the passport system. I had a chance to witness it in use and I believe it is much better than tags. For one when you are attempting to do a roll call because of something like a collapse or rapid evac you can look down and see the names instad of fumbling through tags. The biggest part of accountability system is the part tags never replace and thats the levels of personal accountability responsibilities. Firefighters need their officer to know where they are, officers need their sector or IC to know where they are. If you have SOPs like we do in NYC the IC knows where you are based on your assignment but if for some reason you are deviating you need to use your radio. Accountability systems that work well are parts of a larger system that has good SOPS, communications, and ICS.

The EFAS and systems like it are great but even they will no work if there is no command and control.

[newsbuff 286]

Does luck count?

That ranks up there along with hopes and dreams.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

My home department uses a red tag for identification of all members and a green tag (in addition to the red) for interior members. Each rig has a key rig with a red tag that identifies the rig. When responding, the crew clips their red tag to the rigs tag. This is then given to the Officer on the rig, who in turn gives it to the IC once on scene where it is left at the command post. The green tags are left outside of the point of entrance into the structure. If a safety Officer or Chief is at the point of entry they take the tags and put them on a clipboard or clip them to their gear. If no one is at the point of entry. these are on the floor to the left of the door.

[flyboy14295 4]

As a follow-up to my above post, and to reinforce what Capt. Nechis said,

My department just recently had a fire, and I had this thread floating somewhere in the back of my head. I saw our safety officer on scene( traffic vest with "Safety Officer" on the back) standing inside the house, and I handed my tag to him. His answer was, "Oh, well I haven't started collecting these yet". Long story short, I told him to keep it for when he does get around to being the safety officer.

At the end of the fire, I never got my tag back. I doubt I will ever see it again.

Real useful system....

Edited December 29, 2011 by flyboy14295

[16fire5 693]

As a follow-up to my above post, and to reinforce what Capt. Nechis said,

My department just recently had a fire, and I had this thread floating somewhere in the back of my head. I saw our safety officer on scene( traffic vest with "Safety Officer" on the back) standing inside the house, and I handed my tag to him. His answer was, "Oh, well I haven't started collecting these yet". Long story short, I told him to keep it for when he does get around to being the safety officer.

At the end of the fire, I never got my tag back. I doubt I will ever see it again.

Real useful system....

Is the safety officer really fulfilling the function of safety officer if they do accountability? They are probably just doing accountability then and not safety. I know that is what most volunteer fire departments use their safety officer for but if he really is a comptetent experienced guy you could use him more wisely.