Structure Fire Responses in Westchester

[Bnechis 3,961]

Really!!! There is no need to apologize! You simply posed a simple question out of pure honest personal interest and curiosity that became a political s*** storm as usual. I appreciate EVERYONE’s thoughts and professional opinions, but to continue to turn every damn thing into a political push is ridiculous. Honestly thats what is a complete turn off on this site!

A "political s*** storm"...really?

The "political s*** storm" comes when the public's expectation is that in there hour of need, the fire department shows up with enough trained personnel to save "my child", "my parent", "my wife". So far every department listed (except 1) routinly sends less personnel than every standard calls for.

The political push is to make sure that every response has enough personnel, to actually protect the public and every responder. As a chief officer you should not only understand this, but be promoting it.

This is not about career, combo or volunteer, how many depts and how many chiefs still thinks its ok to send one man apparatus to a structure fire?

I know of 9 (of the 59 in Westchester) that not only think its acceptable, but its actual policy. There are others that think 2 firefighters per rig is ok.

I agree personnell is by far extremly imparitive (No debate from me), but the kid was just asking a simple question. It would be nice to see a topic stick to the point rather then become argumentive.

Fair enough, so sticking to the topic.....I know more than 1 department in Westchester thats run card says 2 engines, 1 ladder & the chiefs car (because a chief would be a person). So thats the apparatus count.

Now you made it clear that you do not want to hear this because it ruins the thread, but its the single biggest issue for Westchesters fire service. Those 2 engines, 1 ladder & the chiefs car were dispatched and retoned for any available driver/crew or rolled with 1 or 2 firefighters.

ISO has sent its new staffing policy to the State Insurance Commissioner. Their new position is that since state law requires 6 responders (2in/2out, MPO & IC) to enter a burning structure. If you can not meet that as a rock bottom minimum, then they plan on rerating your dept to a 9. This will affect dozens of Westchester departments in the next year.

[mfc2257 464]

ISO has sent its new staffing policy to the State Insurance Commissioner. Their new position is that since state law requires 6 responders (2in/2out, MPO & IC) to enter a burning structure. If you can not meet that as a rock bottom minimum, then they plan on rerating your dept to a 9. This will affect dozens of Westchester departments in the next year.

Unfortunately I see this having a greater impact on career departments where staffing is relatively cut and dry. The vollies will be able to say that they've got 5 dozen active volunteers that in reality show up 20 minutes after the call is over and get credit and their free job shirt thus meeting the standards.

Edited December 27, 2011 by mfc2257

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Wow so in the village they get twice the response as in the town.

How do you justify that?

Does the town pay a lower rate?

Do people in the town know they get less of a response?

Interesting that the town has an ISO 9 while the village is 3, so those in the town pay 50% more for insurance.

Cap,

Could these different response levels be based historically in the "downtown" village being the commercial space with the highest potential for catastrophic losses...

I remember somebody from Ossining posting a black and white photo of a store fire in the "downtown" village I think on Spring Street...

{if I remember from my years as a student in the Ossining School System where I used to cut class and hang out at a pinball parlor. This was 1978 and semi-urban discontent was rampant in Ossining High School.

It was so bad I chose the pin-ball parlor because it felt safer than the hallways and some classrooms of OHS.)

Ossining feels like a city down there. I imagine back 30-40 years ago, the number of rigs responding reflected the responding manpower in a significant way. Now? What district, village, city has rigs that directly reflect proper staffing levels? Most do not.

But I have digressed, I was just wondering about the different response level and wondering if it might be a historic thing because of the commercial space.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Unfortunately I see this having a greater impact on career departments where staffing is relatively cut and dry. The vollies will be able to say that they've got 5 dozen active volunteers that in reality show up 20 minutes after the call is over and get credit and their free job shirt thus meeting the standards.

Having read a fair number of ISO improvement statements (which review why the dept is rated as it is) its surprising how many local VFD's dont meet these numbers on a fair number of calls.

The career depts in Westchester all meet or can meet this standard. The combo depts. that run with 2-4 career and volunteers are in big trouble, as most no longer see a regular volunteer response.