Structure Fire Responses in Westchester

[sfrd18 360]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted elsewhere, but I was curious how fire departments in Westchester County dispatch companies/apparatus to structure fires, i.e. their dispatch protocol. For example, how many engines, trucks, rescues, chiefs, etc. respond per department on a report of a structure fire, also known as a Box Assignment. Also, how many and what units are dispatched on the upgraded reports of a Working Fire, and the following multiple alarms.

I think New Rochelle FD sends 3 Engines, 2 Ladders (3&2), and the Deputy Chief on a Box Assignment, then a 4th Engine (F.A.S.T.) and a Transcare Ambulance on the 10-75 (Working Fire) Assignment. In Mt. Vernon, I believe it's 3 & 2 and the DC as well, but not sure on the Working Fire. In Yonkers, it's 4 Engines, 2 Ladders, the Rescue, and a Battalion Chief on the Box, with I believe a 4th Engine (F.A.S.T.), the Mask Service Unit, and the Safety Battalion on a 10-29/10-30 Assignment. I think for New Rochelle and Mt. Vernon, it's 1 & 1 on a 2nd Alarm, and in Yonkers it's 2 & 1 w/ a Battalion Chief on the 2nd. In White Plains, I'm not sure how units are dispatched. I would assume either 3 & 2 or 3 & 1 with a Chief and Rescue 88.

I just thought it would be interesting to know how the many different cities in the county dispatch companies to a structure fire and how many they dispatch, and especially the smaller towns and villages, such as Port Chester, Mamaroneck, Rye, Eastchester, etc. I know some communities provide their own F.A.S.T/R.I.T. and others call out of town for it, so it would be interesting to know which communities do what. Also, some community fire departments are small and require M/A quicker than other larger cities, that can handle a job on their own w/o M/A, so it would also be interesting to know where city resources end and M/A begins depending on the place. Additionally, in many places, their are numerous Chiefs on scene(sometimes more Chief's units than apparatus on scene).

While it's true that you can read the Westchester County IA's to find out how many rigs respond, I curious as to if anyone wanted to contribute.

Thanks.

[TheNewLadder32 49]

Sfrd18 you are right about White Plains we are 3 & 1 with Rescue 88 and the chief. When upgraded we add another Engine & Ladder and then call in Mutual for a Engine & Ladder to cover.

[newsbuff 286]

Peekskill sends 2 engines, Tower Ladder 45, and Rescue 134 to any structural calls, (AFA's, possible fires), and on the 10-75, get a FAST engine, and a cascade.

Mohegan sends 2 and 1 to all structural calls (same as above), and on the 10-75, also get a FAST company and cascade.

[sfrd18 360]

Also, which fire departments in Westchester use Engines as F.A.S.T./R.I.T., which use Trucks, which use Rescues, and which uses other resources, such as EMS?

Also, does a Box in White Plains get a second truck company if it's a high-risk occupancy such as a high-rise, government building, etc., or is it always 3 & 1?

[nfd2004 750]

Sfrd18 you are right about White Plains we are 3 & 1 with Rescue 88 and the chief. When upgraded we add another Engine & Ladder and then call in Mutual for a Engine & Ladder to cover.

A little off track here, but I'm under the impression that White Plains runs with only two guys on a rig. Is that True ?

P.S....... I hope not, thats a pretty good size city.

[SSCharged E100 7]

In ossining if its anything like a smoke investigation its a minor alarm depending on where it is you will either get 2 or 3 engines a truck and a rescue (only in the village), for fire, reported or confirmed (village only) a general alarm box 6-6 is dispatched and thats 6 engines 2 trucks and the rescue. For fast usually croton comes with engine 119. For the town its different if its a confirmed its 3 engines and the tower ladder. If need be mutual aid can be called for addiional engines or the truck from the village. Ossining fast uses engine 98 along with utility 51. Mutual aid engines 97 and 99 are on a monthly rotation as well as the trucks ladder 41 and tower ladder 42.

[sfrd18 360]

A little off track here, but I'm under the impression that White Plains runs with only two guys on a rig. Is that True ?

P.S....... I hope not, thats a pretty good size city.

I heard that too. I think it's 3 guys per rig and maybe 2 on the rescue.

[sfrd18 360]

I believe Port Chester runs 3 & 1 with the Rescue and Chief to structure fires, then adds an additional engine and the utility unit on a 10-75(Working Fire). I think several engines and the second truck can be specially called if necessary, i.e. if there are multiple calls or reports of victims trapped.

[tglass59 27]

A little off track here, but I'm under the impression that White Plains runs with only two guys on a rig. Is that True ?

P.S....... I hope not, thats a pretty good size city.

WPFD runs with a minimum of 3 per company and a max of 4. For a report of a fire we send,the DC (car 2512) 3 engines 1 truck and the rescue, the DC will usually call for an additional engine to come in as FAST while responding if its a confirmed fire. Once on scene and depending on situation a 2nd alarm would be 1 and 1 with the 3rd truck we have (if in service) relocating to HQ or the scene, we are done after that and mutual aid is called to cover the city.

.

Edited December 27, 2011 by tglass59

[helicopper 1,050]

In ossining if its anything like a smoke investigation its a minor alarm depending on where it is you will either get 2 or 3 engines a truck and a rescue (only in the village), for fire, reported or confirmed (village only) a general alarm box 6-6 is dispatched and thats 6 engines 2 trucks and the rescue. For fast usually croton comes with engine 119. For the town its different if its a confirmed its 3 engines and the tower ladder. If need be mutual aid can be called for addiional engines or the truck from the village. Ossining fast uses engine 98 along with utility 51. Mutual aid engines 97 and 99 are on a monthly rotation as well as the trucks ladder 41 and tower ladder 42.

Just curious...

Why the big difference between responses in the village and town? (Three more engines in the village)

Is there a reason for the six (6) engine response on general alarms? I only ask because it is different than what seems to be the "usual" response.

No criticism at all, just curiosity.

Thanks!

[helicopper 1,050]

In addition to posting the VEHICLES that respond, can you post how many PERSONNEL respond? The WPFD question (2-3 on a company) raised a very interesting point. How many FF does this response include?

Volunteer departments may not have a standard answer but the career jobs can give us the rundown.

Thanks!

[sfrd18 360]

In addition to posting the VEHICLES that respond, can you post how many PERSONNEL respond? The WPFD question (2-3 on a company) raised a very interesting point. How many FF does this response include?

Volunteer departments may not have a standard answer but the career jobs can give us the rundown.

Thanks!

Good question. If there is a 3 & 1 response with a Rescue and a Deputy, that's about 17 minimum personnel o/s(if the DC runs with an aide), and a maximum of 22. That also depends if some rigs ride w/3 and others w/4.

[SSCharged E100 7]

Response to helicopper, village and town r two different deals. The village owns and runs the fd the town pays the village for fire protection from the village. Some of the town of ossining is also briarcliff fd area. Area like north state road and around there is briarcliff fd.

[StOpGoBlUE 11]

IN PORT CHESTER, on all structual related calls we get 3 engines,1 ladder , and the rescue, if a 10-75 is transmitted then we get 1 additional engine to the scene with the utility and PCEMS also the Town of Mamk FAST.. also the other paid engine gets relocated to fire headquarters and the remaning 2 engines and Ladder go on stby in there own quarters... hope this helps

[firedude 985]

To any reported structure fires (my observations)...

Larchmont: 2 Engines (E35, E34), 1 Ladder (TL7), 1 Rescue (R1) + Paid Chief. The paid apparatus have 1 FF per rig.

Town of Mamaroneck: 2 Engines (E51, E37/36), 1 Ladder (L19), 1 Rescue (R6) + Volunteer Chiefs. Paid apparatus (1 Engine, Ladder, Rescue) have 1 FF per rig.

Village of Mamaroneck: 4 Engines (E38,E40, E41, E42), 1 Ladders (TL20) and 1 Utilty (U9) + volunteer chiefs

Harrison: 3 Engines (E13,E10, E12), 1 Ladder (TL24), 1 Rescue (R19)+ volunteer chiefs. Paid apparatus (1 engine, 1 Ladder) have 1 or 2 FF's per rig

Bedford Hills (Hydrant District): 2 Engines (E199, E198), 1 Ladder (TL57), 1 Rescue (R10) + volunteer chiefs

Bedford Hills (Non-Hydrant District): 2 Engines (E199, E198), 1 Ladder (TL57), 1 Tanker (T5), 1 Rescue (R10) + volunteer chiefs

Mt Kisco: 2 Engines, 1 Ladder (TL14), 1 Rescue (R31) + volunteer chiefs

Fairview: 2 Engines, 1 Ladder (L1), 1 Rescue(R3) + paid chiefs

Purchase: 2 Engines (E238, 240), 1 Ladder (TL53), 1 rescue (R30) + volunteer chiefs

Yorktown (Hydrants): 2/3 Engines, 1 Ladder, 1 Rescue, BHFD or PFD FAST + volunteer chiefs

Yorktown (non-hydrants): 2/3 Engines, 1 Ladder (if able), 1 Tanker, 1 Rescue, BHFD or PFD FAST + volunteer chiefs

Yorktown FD has a cool mapping feature on their website which states their Mutual aid alarm assignments, based on past fires. Check it out here.

Edited December 27, 2011 by firedude

[Remember585 815]

Any reported structural fire in our hydrant areas gets our Full Department Response, which should be 3 Engines, 1 Truck, 1 Rescue.

Any reported structural fire in our tanker areas gets the above plus our Tanker and 2 Mutual Aid Tankers on automatic dispatch.

Confirmed structural fires in our hydrant areas gets a FAST, Cascade & two Ambulances.

Confirmed structural fires in our tanker areas gets the above plus 2 more Tankers and a source Engine.

Our Schools & the Sky View Nursing Home get an additional 1 & 1 on a "10-75."

For all of the above, an Engine and Ladder relocate to cover our district. In Tanker areas, we now move a Tanker up to cover, since we are pulling most of them in our area to the scene.

[JFLYNN 681]

This is an interesting thread. IMO it really does a lot to demonstrate the mindset held by many members of the Fire Service in this region which is such a disservice to those we are sworn to protect and to our own fellow Firefighters....with the exception of helicoppers question regarding manpower (and he is a cop, not a Firefighter), and one other question and answer in regard to White Plains manpower, the whole thread so far is all about how many apparatus respond, with no mention of personnel.

Guys, Firefighters put out fires...Firefighters who are adequately trained and certified for interior firefighting and physically capable. A certain amount and type of apparatus, of course, is necessary, however, listing how many apparatus respond to structure fires is not only worthless in terms of assessing a department's capabilities, it is misleading.

[rutola413 5]

Here in Western MA we have a serious lack of manpower during normal working hourse. Any time the call comes in for a working or possible fire we get our full assignment: Both Engines (1 center station 1 west) Tank 1, A-1, Rescue 1. OF course, with lack of manpower comes lack of drivers.

Control will also tone Southwick for Ladder and Tank, Tolland Tank and Engine, East Hartland CT Tanker.

[JohnnyOV 2]

In addition to posting the VEHICLES that respond, can you post how many PERSONNEL respond? The WPFD question (2-3 on a company) raised a very interesting point. How many FF does this response include?

Volunteer departments may not have a standard answer but the career jobs can give us the rundown.

Thanks!

I know I answered this in another thread for you, but I'll do it again here because I feel this pertains more to this thread then apparatus response...

In all honesty , you could have 8 pieces of apparatus on scene, but if you only have 8 firefighters, you're efforts are going to be almost futile. Manpower is what is needed most, not the big shiny toolbox.

It all depends on the situation presented at the time. Our district is almost 37 square miles big, so expecting everyone to show up to the firehouse to respond is not only pointless, it would delay our response, especially since we only have 2 stations (insurance co audits actually recommended 5 stations). Anyways, a majority of the time we have guys hanging around the main firehouse, enough to get 2 pieces on the road with 2 or 3 guys on the rigs each. Sometimes there are full apparatus, and sometimes we're rolling driver only. Right now, it's just the nature of the beast and we're actively trying to address that problem.

People in the rigs will get assignments as we ride to the scene, and prioritize each function depending on the staffing level. People who arrive on scene in their POV will meet with the IC and get their assignment from there.

If I'm responding driver only, there are about 1000 things going through my mind on what needs to be done when I arrive. If I have a crew with me, the guy sitting in the right seat makes all those decisions, and I know that as the MPO, I'll be operating the pump, flaking out line, securing a water source, throwing ladders, basically any function on the outside that needs to be accomplished if we arrive with minimum manpower.

I wont hide behind a smoke screen and say that manpower is great 100% of the time. Just like every other department (even if you refuse to admit it) we're dealt with a crappy hand sometimes. It's how you overcome those obstacles in the first 10 seconds, prioritize what needs to be done first and effectively accomplish those tasks in a short time period.

This post has been edited by JohnnyOV: 23 December 2011 - 12:00 PM

And Chief Flynn beat me to the punch...

edit 2: I should also add that for M/A runs, the rig will not leave the station until 4 interior qualified firefighters (or 4 FAST members if it's a FASTeam) are on it.

Edited December 27, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[sfrd18 360]

This is an interesting thread. IMO it really does a lot to demonstrate the mindset held by many members of the Fire Service in this region which is such a disservice to those we are sworn to protect and to our own fellow Firefighters....with the exception of helicoppers question regarding manpower (and he is a cop, not a Firefighter), and one other question and answer in regard to White Plains manpower, the whole thread so far is all about how many apparatus respond, with no mention of personnel.

Guys, Firefighters put out fires...Firefighters who are adequately trained and certified for interior firefighting and physically capable. A certain amount and type of apparatus, of course, is necessary, however, listing how many apparatus respond to structure fires is not only worthless in terms of assessing a department's capabilities, it is misleading.

JFLYNN, this thread is mearly for interest sake, to see what certain fire departments dispatch to the scene of the fire. If it is a paid department, there is a certain staffing level in which it is obvious to tell how many personnel are o/s. If a career department staffs 3 per rig, adding together the number of rigs then multiplying by 3 gives you the number of personnel on scene. For volunteers, it varries.

However, that aside, this thread is not about manpower and it is not about assessing a department's capabilities in regards to manpower. It is solely to see what and how many pieces of fire apparatus are dispatched to the scene depending on the department. It is, again, for interest sake and not to make it look like fire trucks are in any way more important than the firefighters that ride and operate them.

Yes, firefighters put out fires and personnel on scene is important, but this thread is not meant to discuss manpower, but rather apparatus response to structure fires in Westchester County.

Hope this clears things up.

Edited December 27, 2011 by sfrd18

[rayrider 94]

A thread discussing strictly apparatus response in Westchester for curiosity without also addressing the current problems the majority of depts are facing is a waste of time IMO.

[Danger 160]

JFLYNN, this thread is mearly for interest sake, to see what certain fire departments dispatch to the scene of the fire. If it is a paid department, there is a certain staffing level in which it is obvious to tell how many personnel are o/s. If a career department staffs 3 per rig, adding together the number of rigs then multiplying by 3 gives you the number of personnel on scene. For volunteers, it varries.

However, that aside, this thread is not about manpower and it is not about assessing a department's capabilities in regards to manpower. It is solely to see what and how many pieces of fire apparatus are dispatched to the scene depending on the department. It is, again, for interest sake and not to make it look like fire trucks are in any way more important than the firefighters that ride and operate them.

Yes, firefighters put out fires and personnel on scene is important, but this thread is not meant to discuss manpower, but rather apparatus response to structure fires in Westchester County.

Hope this clears things up.

Kid, just listen to the chief.

I appreciate that you like fire trucks. I like fire trucks too. I like getting paid to ride on them and I like looking at pictures of them on Emtbravo. I also appreciate that you're new. I was once new as well, in fact it wasn't that long ago. Someday, you might be sitting in a fire truck and look around the cab of the big fancy engine they bought you and see a 65 year old man driving and a 80 year old fire police in the back. Or you might be fortunate enough to get on a paid job and have one other guy with you or you might even be by yourself. And you will not care how many red trucks are coming but rather what the hell are you going to do with what you've got.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Danger

[JFLYNN 681]

JFLYNN, this thread is mearly for interest sake, to see what certain fire departments dispatch to the scene of the fire. If it is a paid department, there is a certain staffing level in which it is obvious to tell how many personnel are o/s. If a career department staffs 3 per rig, adding together the number of rigs then multiplying by 3 gives you the number of personnel on scene. For volunteers, it varries.

However, that aside, this thread is not about manpower and it is not about assessing a department's capabilities in regards to manpower. It is solely to see what and how many pieces of fire apparatus are dispatched to the scene depending on the department. It is, again, for interest sake and not to make it look like fire trucks are in any way more important than the firefighters that ride and operate them.

Yes, firefighters put out fires and personnel on scene is important, but this thread is not meant to discuss manpower, but rather apparatus response to structure fires in Westchester County.

Hope this clears things up.

No it actually doesn't clear things up. Actually I'm curious...Why does this interest you? What relevance do you think it has?

[sfrd18 360]

No it actually doesn't clear things up. Actually I'm curious...Why does this interest you? What relevance do you think it has?

I'm sorry if I got out of line. I'll admit that current issues involving personnel with regards to structure fire responses should be discussed. I was just wondering what apparatus departments will send to a structure fire, and I guess I didn't take into account personnel or issues involving personnel that would cause the thread to not be misleading. I will also admit that when I created this thread it didn't have any relevance to anything other than personal interest. I realize that on EMTBravo, a topic should not solely be based on personal interest, but the interests of everybody, and should discuss every point of the issue.

I am new in this field, and I should have taken into account manpower and issues departments are facing when I created this topic, in order to look at all sides of it. If I offended anyone, I appoligize.

Edited December 27, 2011 by sfrd18

[firecapt32 282]

The two pretty much go "hand in glove" don't they? I am not sure you can talk about apparatus responding to report of fires in Westchester without considering who will put out the fires. I will leave it with this thought:

Bigger apparatus isn't always better, and neither is more apparatus, its the quality not the quantity of both men and apparatus.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

qunaity: This IS the correct spelling of the word on the fireground in the great New York area.

Edit: meaning how it is spoken.

Edited December 27, 2011 by efdcapt115

[VAEMC 10]

I'm sorry if I got out of line. I'll admit that current issues involving personnel with regards to structure fire responses should be discussed. I was just wondering what apparatus departments will send to a structure fire, and I guess I didn't take into account personnel or issues involving personnel that would cause the thread to not be misleading. I will also admit that when I created this thread it didn't have any relevance to anything other than personal interest. I realize that on EMTBravo, a topic should not solely be based on personal interest, but the interests of everybody, and should discuss every point of the issue.

I am new in this field, and I should have taken into account manpower and issues departments are facing when I created this topic, in order to look at all sides of it. If I offended anyone, I appoligize.

Really!!! There is no need to apologize! You simply posed a simple question out of pure honest personal interest and curiosity that became a political s*** storm as usual. I appreciate EVERYONE’s thoughts and professional opinions, but to continue to turn every damn thing into a political push is ridiculous. Honestly thats what is a complete turn off on this site!

I agree personnell is by far extremly imparitive (No debate from me), but the kid was just asking a simple question. It would be nice to see a topic stick to the point rather then become argumentive.

[wraftery 1,275]

After reading that last post, including the quoted reference, all I can say is "Hmmmm"

[JFLYNN 681]

I'm sorry if I got out of line. I'll admit that current issues involving personnel with regards to structure fire responses should be discussed. I was just wondering what apparatus departments will send to a structure fire, and I guess I didn't take into account personnel or issues involving personnel that would cause the thread to not be misleading. I will also admit that when I created this thread it didn't have any relevance to anything other than personal interest. I realize that on EMTBravo, a topic should not solely be based on personal interest, but the interests of everybody, and should discuss every point of the issue.

I am new in this field, and I should have taken into account manpower and issues departments are facing when I created this topic, in order to look at all sides of it. If I offended anyone, I appoligize.

Thank you for being openminded enough to reconsider your original position after being presented with a differing opinion. Your manly ability to not take these things personally and to acknowedge that others have correctly pointed out a flaw in your original reasoning is admirable and unfortunately, all too rare in these parts.

These are life and death issues to those of us who have dedicated our lives to the Fire Service profession. A young man such as yourself with passion and an open mind will likely go far and be a credit to our vocation.

Please be careful who you listen to in regard to these matters and don't fall for the typical false accusations of volunteer bashing, which is not at all what this is all about.

It is bashing though of course. It is bashing of misleading information, misplaced priorities, and failed leaders.

[Bnechis 3,961]

In ossining.....for fire, reported or confirmed (village only) thats 6 engines 2 trucks and the rescue.

For the town its different if its a confirmed its 3 engines and the tower ladder.

Wow so in the village they get twice the response as in the town.

How do you justify that?

Does the town pay a lower rate?

Do people in the town know they get less of a response?

Interesting that the town has an ISO 9 while the village is 3, so those in the town pay 50% more for insurance.