Hart Island Fire 12/22

[ny10570 745]

2236hrs- Phone alarm for fire on Hart Island. Units responding onto City Island.

2347hrs- 10-75 transmitted for unk. type fire on the island.

2250hrs- Marine 1 and Marine 6 S/C. Unk. type fire visible on Hart Island. Units to respond in to Fordham St X King Ave at the ferry dock.

2252hrs- B-15 req. Marine 6 to pick up members (25) minute ETA.

2253hrs- B-15 S/C NYPD Harbor. Div. 7 concurs and requests a channel to communicate on. Corrections Dept. rpts island is unoccupied. R-3 rpts they will contact NYPD Harbor on TAC Channel 'U.'

2254hrs- Marine 1 has (90) minute eta, Marine 1A will be (45) minutes.

2255hrs- Div. 7 S/C Air Recon. B-15 req. Marine 1 to respond with Marine 1A with shorter ETA.

2258hrs- Div. 7 S/C Field Communications Satellite Engine. S/C E-46.

2303hrs- Marine 6 is at Throgs Neck with a (10) minute ETA.

2306hrs- Div. 7 S/C BFU. Advised it will come from Queens. S/C BFU-6/E-321. Air Recon is grounded due to weather.

2312hrs- Div. 7 rpts (1) Engine, (1) Truck, B-15 over to the island on Marine 6. NYPD Harbor with a (20) minute ETA. Marine 1A enroute with a (45) minute ETA. Fireboat 343 will be responding with E-24/L-5/B-2 with a (90) minute ETA.

2322hrs- Div. 7 rpts Marine 6 enroute with co's to the island ATT. R-3 and Squad is also on board and will be FAST.

2324hrs- Div. 7 transmitting the All-Hands.

2333hrs- E-70/L53/R-3/Sq-61 are on the island, rpts 2-story 30X40 structure is on fire.

2335hrs- Marine 1A is on location. Req. to approach from east side of the island. Div. 7 also req. comfirmation that the larger fireboat is enroute. B-2 rpts (1) hour ETA.

2340hrs- Div. 7 rpts Rescue and Squad are being returned and L-50 will go on the island as FAST. Marine 1 (Fireboat 343) will be the water source on arrival.

2350hrs- Div. 7 rpts Marine 6 has water on the fire.

0009hrs- B-15 releasing Marine 1A.

0010hrs- Div. 7 rpts fire K/D by Marine 6. BFU will be sent over on arrival. Marine 1 and 1A can go 10-8.

0023hrs- Div. 7 rpts P/W/H. DOT ferry is transporting BFU/E-321 over to the island.

Luckily Hart Island is still used by DOC an has ferry access. Through out the sound there are many islands with abandoned structures. I've been on a few and all had plenty of evidence of people still illegally using them. Do any depts have plans and have practiced accessing them or have they been written off as too dangerous and to let any fires burn themselves out?

Edited December 23, 2011 by ny10570

[babhits16 28]

Very interesting alarm. Were units actually brought to the island (Hart), or just to City Island? How many alarms occur on these islands every year?

[helicopper 1,050]

Did the ghosts leave a Christmas candle burning and start a fire?

Any word on what the source was? Brush or structure? There's not a whole lot left out there.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Did the ghosts leave a Christmas candle burning and start a fire?

Any word on what the source was? Brush or structure? There's not a whole lot left out there.

Report above said: "2-story 30X40 structure is on fire"

[gamewell45 258]

Very interesting alarm. Were units actually brought to the island (Hart), or just to City Island? How many alarms occur on these islands every year?

I used to work on High Island, which is another small island off of City Island. The island is accessed by a small bridge that, at least when i worked there could not carry anything much heavier then a passenger motor vehicle. I often wondered what they'd do if one of the two main structures (transmitter building and the caretakers residence) on the island became involved in fire. There was no water supply on the island. I figured most likely it would be a fire boat-type operation and minutes would seem like hours.

[everybodygoes 331]

High Island has a standpipe along the new bridge that was built out to the Tx building and the care takers residence is vacant probably because of FCC exposure limits, last time there it looked like it had been empty for a long time.

Hart Island is only accessible via Dept of Corrections Ferry from Fordham St and it runs only in the AM and PM, never at night. Hardly ever get boxes out there since it is usually unoccupied or has DOC employees working on it.

[firepunk 3]

Didn't the movie "I will never tell" get filmed there

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I used to work on High Island, which is another small island off of City Island. The island is accessed by a small bridge that, at least when i worked there could not carry anything much heavier then a passenger motor vehicle. I often wondered what they'd do if one of the two main structures (transmitter building and the caretakers residence) on the island became involved in fire. There was no water supply on the island. I figured most likely it would be a fire boat-type operation and minutes would seem like hours.

Hours may seem like day's

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Hey Helicopper, does the NYPD have the same bucket for water drops as you do and if so do you kept it on board or do you have to pick it up somewhere [airport home base]. I whould think that it's the fastest way to put water on it with the world's largest booster tank only a few feet away. You may not save anything but can kept it in check if weather contions are ok .

[gamewell45 258]

Hours may seem like day's

We actually had a small fire break out in the transmitter building in 1981; luckily for us, we were able to extinguish it with on site fire extingushers; the phones were knocked out as a result of the fire,so we couldn't call 911 if we wanted to and if I had to walk to City isand to find a working phone I dreaded the thought of having to call Radio City and telling them that their precious transmitter building was burning down. BTW, your right tho' hours do seem like days.

[grumpyff 1,159]

NYPD has a bucket, it is kept at Floyd Bennett Field. That is Aviation and Special Operations Division HQ. According to the post above Aviation was grounded. Even if it was not grounded I dont think they would use it on a structure, the roof would block the water from getting to tge fire.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Hart Island is the largest municipal funded "Potter's Field" correct?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Hey Helicopper, does the NYPD have the same bucket for water drops as you do and if so do you kept it on board or do you have to pick it up somewhere [airport home base]. I whould think that it's the fastest way to put water on it with the world's largest booster tank only a few feet away. You may not save anything but can kept it in check if weather contions are ok .

NYPD Aviation does have Bambi Buckets, they are kept at Floyd Bennet Field. I have seen them use them on brush fires along the belt parkway

Edited December 24, 2011 by Bnechis

[jack10562 414]

Hart Island is the largest municipal funded "Potter's Field" correct?

Yes, it's the largest taxpayer funded cemetery in the world!

The NYC department of corrections controls burial records and permits only very limited physical access.

http://tinyurl.com/6ccfp4

[nycemt728 49]

So, is this any justification for shuffing some marine resources around any? I understand the boats had to wait to crew up w/ the responding companies and account for tides but it seems like the marine resoures took a long time to get there. Also City Island has alot of narrow streets, if there was a fully involved fire how many units could you really fit on a block to make a really good attack? Would it make sense to train the ladder guys for the CI house (might be an excellent reason to justify keeping ladder in service) on one of the smaller alpha boats and have it staged up there? It could cover the island, the bronx and upper manhattan. Also in a situation where the units are responding from such a distance, would it not make since to crew the boat with units closer to the call in question, perhaps it would speed up response time and be beneficial. Also, perhaps it would be beneficial prestage some equipment on Hart, i.e. brush equipment, cans, hose reels and perhaps a pump? I realize the island is uninhabited but that still does not negate the fact that the island has quite a bit of flamable material including brush and unstabilized buildings.

And yes that movie was filmed there.

Edited December 24, 2011 by nycemt728

[ny10570 745]

Its about priorities. There are other places that see more responses, more traffic, and could better justify a boat. However the money just isn't there. In the summer when Orchard beach is open there are more resources available including a Marine unit out of Ft Totten, but the rest of the year the Marine units have a lot of water to cover.

There is a Brush fire unit on the Bronx that would normally respond to a fire on one of the islands, but was OOS. As far as pre-staging equipment there's not much of a benefit as the DOT ferries I believe can all transport fire apparatus and the firefighters can carry whatever they need with them on the marine units.

The bigger issue is again priorites. Hart Island is slowly being demolished to make room for more graves and is only occupied during the day. Governors Island is visited by thousands of people, has a school, major events and no fire protection.

[helicopper 1,050]

Hey Helicopper, does the NYPD have the same bucket for water drops as you do and if so do you kept it on board or do you have to pick it up somewhere [airport home base]. I whould think that it's the fastest way to put water on it with the world's largest booster tank only a few feet away. You may not save anything but can kept it in check if weather contions are ok .

Buckets are not carried on the aircraft. They're stored at the respective bases until needed and are then deployed.

[helicopper 1,050]

Report above said: "2-story 30X40 structure is on fire"

Thanks, I missed that when I first read it but saw the brush trucks special called. So it must have been the ghosts.

[babhits16 28]

Are there any other inhabited islands in the city that DO NOT have full time fire protection (besides Governors)?

[ny10570 745]

Governors is not technically inhabited. It is a similar situation to Liberty and Ellis Islands. While Ellis had a bridge constructed during the recent rehab I'm not sure its capacity as even upgrading to a pedestrian bridge was deemed too costly. Firefighters and their equipment are all transported by Marine Units and Ferries.

Islands with permanent residents without dedicated fire protection would include Roosevelt Island, Randalls/Wards Island, and Rikers Island. Randalls has multiple access from 3 different boroughs, but Roosevelt and Rikers are both single access. Recently construction on the Roosevelt Island Bridge closed it to traffic on several overnights. Police, Fire, and EMS units were deployed to the island, but they were looking at up to 30 minutes to reopen the bridge in the event of an emergency. Broad Channel in Queens has a volunteer FD, but FDNY units are coming via Cross Bay Blvd. The residents don't realize just how isolated they really are. A few years ago a truck overturned on the access road to City Island. Thanks to recent heavy rains the ground along the road was impassible to heavy trucks. Even an ambulance got stuck trying to squeeze past. About 40 minutes after the call came in the truck was dragged to one side just to open the road. A couple of hours later the traffic backup cleared. This was a simple single vehicle with minor injuries.

Then there's the islands with abandoned structures that are closed, but without any real barrier to prevent access. North little Brother Island, Hart, and High in the Bronx. I think there's one more off of Staten Island.

[nycemt728 49]

NY10570 you are correct, however the Ellis construction bridge (obviously meant to carry heavy loads) was made permanent and undergoes regular testing. Bottom line, fire apparatus from Jersey City can and do respond over the bridge. There are prepositioned FDNY lockers on Liberty. I was suggesting that given the remote nature of Hart with its limited access it would seem logical to put some supplies there as well. You have to take into consideration that Governor's is in close proximity to at least two large marine companies and the GI ferry could probably fit a company or two. Hart no matter how you look it is signifigantly farther away. The islands of NY Harbor also can be recieve support from any number of NJ departments, the lower Westchester guys may have small boats none really to lauch firefighting operations. Even if Hart is being slowly demolished, it still doesn't make it any less flamable. I agree it's all about about priorties, and I think the value of a water based unit further uptown than the high 80s if that, for this situation and even the one that you just mentioned with the truck on the bridge warrant a look to not buy new resources but certainly rearrange current ones.