Status of West Harrison's Rescue 35?

[firedude 985]

Does anybody know the status of West Harrison's Rescue 35? I know it went back to KME for repairs after the engine fire, but haven't heard anything since.

Thanks in advance.

West Harrison Fire Truck Fire

Nyack (Rockland County) West Harrison Firetruck Fire 07/12/11 (Pictures)

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

From http://public.fotki.com/lfd171/westchester_county_fire/west_harrison/rescue_35_retired2.html

UPDATE 10/30: RIG HAS BEEN DECLARED A TOTAL WRITE OFF. A NEW RIG WILL BE BUILT FOR WEST HARRISON INSTEAD

[Anesti 329]

What are they using anything in the meantime??

Edited December 21, 2011 by Anesti

[firedude 985]

What does west Harrison need a rescue for it is a town less than a square mile and has purchase white plains north white plains around it. Why waste tax dollarrs on a rescue

Don't think of it as a "rescue" think of it as a "rescue-pumper". It was there 1st truck truck for everything! It was an awesome rig!

Anyone know a timeline for the new truck? Will it be KME? Same specs?

Edited December 20, 2011 by firedude

[firepunk 3]

Don't get me wrong I am not knocking any dept I just do not understand that FDNY has 5 rescue trucks and westchester has maybe 15-30 rescues. To many redundant rigs around the area. We need to utilize each other and use tax dollars for important equipment that is needed

[Bnechis 3,961]

Don't get me wrong I am not knocking any dept I just do not understand that FDNY has 5 rescue trucks and westchester has maybe 15-30 rescues. To many redundant rigs around the area.

37 Rescues, not including DES units and police units.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Ah, but what constitutes a rescue in Westchester? Some are rescues in name only, since they have a hydraulic rescue tool on them, and might be better designated as an engine. Outside of New Rochelle and Yonkers, who in Westchester has a rescue that can compare with FDNY in terms of equipment, training, and tool selection?

[firedude 985]

Guys, the topic of rescues in westchester has been moved to another tread. It can be read here.

My question hasn't been answered so lets stay on topic. Does anyone know a timeline for the new truck? Will it be made by KME? Specs?

[WHFD318 17]

Guys, the topic of rescues in westchester has been moved to another tread. It can be read here.

My question hasn't been answered so lets stay on topic. Does anyone know a timeline for the new truck? Will it be made by KME? Specs?

From what I know, and I'm sure the chief can verify once he knows more on here is that we settled with the insurance company and are looking to move foward as fast as possible to replace our rig. We are obviously looking to KME to replace R35 and I have seen some drawings of possible replacements.

Will keep you posted as the info becomes available.

[MoFire390 118]

From what I know, and I'm sure the chief can verify once he knows more on here is that we settled with the insurance company and are looking to move foward as fast as possible to replace our rig. We are obviously looking to KME to replace R35 and I have seen some drawings of possible replacements.

Will keep you posted as the info becomes available.

i hope u guys get a new truck quickly. good luck i hope everything works out

[chris498 31]

I read this thread yesterday and have been following the discussion for a day and now feel compelled to add my opinion. It is disappointing that a member of this site asks a simple question about the status of a piece of apparatus which has been placed out of service due to fire and the automatic responses that are generated turn immediately to why does this department need this truck?

The funny thing is that rarely are the one’s questioning the needs of (fill in the blank) Fire Department, at all associated with that department – so how would you know what their communities specific needs are?

As example, I wouldn’t question why one department – of which I have no affiliation with or knowledge of their needs - has 3 ladder trucks even though they are surrounded by departments with ladder trucks on every side of their community – because it’s not my place to. If that department has determined that is what they need to do their job, I trust that their leadership has made an educated decision and that they are not just stroking their egos.

Ironically, it’s double edged sword here as well; a northern department is questioned why so much mutual aid is needed at a house fire, but another department that is self-sufficient is accused of wasting tax payer dollars and questioned why they need this truck or that truck instead of using more mutual aid. It doesn’t make sense; it’s ludicrous.

There was an interesting article on here lately about the fire service and its changing nature; how departments are being asked to respond to new situations and different types of emergencies all the time. Proper response to these new challenges often requires newer tools, gear and equipment to effectively mitigate these hazards; which in turn often means purchasing a newer and larger truck to carry this equipment and get the job done.

So - why does this town need this truck? Because their membership and commissioners and potentially their insurance agency have determined it is necessary for their district and their firefighters to do their job effectively.

This, of course, is not the first time that others who think they know what is best for everyone else interject their own beliefs or who knows maybe even their envy at some other departments rolling stock and I’m sure it won’t be the last – but still it’s disappointing; it is one of the reasons I seldom participate on this site any longer.

Periodically someone on this site will post something about making this site what we want it to be – a place where positive discussion can take place and where people can learn. But that doesn’t happen; the forcing of agendas continues. Then there is the occasional thread that asks why member participation is down on this site and I think to myself in response to that question, I can’t imagine why someone would feel compelled to post something here when others with agendas, or egos, or envy, or whatever pick apart every detail of every call, decision and comment made. It really is disappointing.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Don't think of it as a "rescue" think of it as a "rescue-pumper". It was there 1st truck truck for everything! It was an awesome rig!

As was mentioned before, this is a first due apparatus that is actually a rescue-pumper. It actually sounds very smart and efficient for a smaller department who might not be able to get two rigs out the door right away, to have a truck with water AND rescue tools.

Fair enough. Maybe it should be called an engine and not a rescue, then there would be no issue.

[HFD23 37]

The honest truth here is "Titles and Names"

Every one wants a Rescue Company, a Squad Company, Technical Rescue Squad, Etc.

They are Titles.

its truly about the equipment carried and level of training of the members, this doesn't mean every rescue needs to have trench or structural shoring equipment but they should have more then just extrication tools.

West Harrison's Apparatus is a rescue pumper as stated not truly a rescue, its just a name, if putting a tool on a engine and changing the name means not buying separate engine and rescue apparatus then who cares what they call it.

[JohnnyOV 2]

The honest truth here is "Titles and Names"

Every one wants a Rescue Company, a Squad Company, Technical Rescue Squad, Etc.

They are Titles.

its truly about the equipment carried and level of training of the members, this doesn't mean every rescue needs to have trench or structural shoring equipment but they should have more then just extrication tools.

West Harrison's Apparatus is a rescue pumper as stated not truly a rescue, its just a name, if putting a tool on a engine and changing the name means not buying separate engine and rescue apparatus then who cares what they call it.

Seriously, everyone has their panties in a bunch over the name of a tool box and the rather large office water cooler on wheels. Who gives a flying fahtooka what it's called. If they called in responding "Magic Carpet 1" or "Craftsman transport Vehicle" and they show up with sufficient, well trained man power and equipment to get the job done, then they can call themselves what ever they want for all I care.

Priorities people.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The funny thing is that rarely are the one’s questioning the needs of (fill in the blank) Fire Department, at all associated with that department – so how would you know what their communities specific needs are?

First, how often do members honestly question their own depts (I dont mean here, I mean in general)? We have all seen departments with 1 man rigs or "paging for any available driver & crew" ....no response, but no one in the dept has an issue with that, its ok because "we know whats best in our community"?

Second,how different are communities? Are there specific needs that different? Great Britain has 1 design for an engine. It is used in 4 different countries (England, No.Ireland, Scotland & Wales). They make it work from busy London to isolated islands. Is this best or would it be better to have a dozzen different designs....maybe. In the US we have 30,000 (or more) different designs because every community is unique.

In Germany they have about 10 different designs you can chose from, (more seating, bigger tank, bigger pump, etc.) But again they realize that very few communities are that different.

The level of standardization in GB is to the point that the same equipment is in the same compartment on every pump (engine). When there are special local needs they get a rescue to cover that. I got to watch the 1st day of field exersises at Morton-in-Marsh (the National Fire Service College). 6 brand new LT's from 4 countries pulled up (in an engine) to a fire in a burn building. they had never worked together before and they put almost every drill here I've ever seen to shame. They knew without even inspecting the rig where everything was and since they had all used the same SOP's they were able to gain entry, search and extingush the fire like they had been assigned to the same crew for years. We have companies in the same station that cant do that.

As example, I wouldn’t question why one department – of which I have no affiliation with or knowledge of their needs - has 3 ladder trucks even though they are surrounded by departments with ladder trucks on every side of their community – because it’s not my place to. If that department has determined that is what they need to do their job, I trust that their leadership has made an educated decision and that they are not just stroking their egos.

This is exactly why Westchester has more engines than NYC (and all our extra engines have no or substandard staffing). The leadership of every square mile here apparently knows more than the rest of the fire service in the nation.

We have 3 ladder companies (4 ladder trucks) and are surrounded by 6 departments that collectivly own 9 ladder trucks. Why cant we just use them? Maybe its because they do not have ladder companies? 5 of them run with only 1 firefighter, 2 run with only 2 firefighters and 2 are spares.

4 of those ladders are towers and every manufacturer, requires 3 firefighters to safely operate them (2 in the bucket, 1 at the turntable). Even state law says when that bucket is in smoke (IDLH) they need 2 FF's (in the bucket)but may only have 1. Its clear to me that the leaderships educated decisions are unacceptable. Why isnt everyone questioning this practice?

So - why does this town need this truck? Because their membership and commissioners and potentially their insurance agency have determined it is necessary for their district and their firefighters to do their job effectively.

We have seen depts in this county that perchased vehicles to "improve" its insurance rating and the rating went up, because they do not understand what the rating standard is. We have seen depts buy trucks that do not fit into the fire station or are to heavy for the station or the bridges in town. We have seen depts buy tower ladders because every town in the parade has one and we dont (oh we also need to buy a smaller ladder because our members cant drive the big one). We have a lack of standardization that is so bad, that 1/2 the county is Rated a 9 by the insurance industry (on a 1-10 scale) That means on an open book test they scored below 10%.

This, of course, is not the first time that others who think they know what is best for everyone else interject their own beliefs or who knows maybe even their envy at some other departments rolling stock and I’m sure it won’t be the last – but still it’s disappointing; it is one of the reasons I seldom participate on this site any longer.

I always liked the line: "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem". You come to a descusion board, but you do not want anyones opiniton. No wonder you are disapointed. Everyday we see and hear all of the problems in emergency services in Westchester and the problems have been getting worst for the last 30 years and anyone who dares to suggest change gets us all upset.

Periodically someone on this site will post something about making this site what we want it to be – a place where positive discussion can take place and where people can learn. But that doesn’t happen; the forcing of agendas continues.

Even when negative discusions occure, information exchange occures and that can make for possitive outcomes. I often see great post from many on this board that will take the negative and refute it. There are many here who are either new to emergency services or has been isolated in there own system and have no idea what goes on in other places. Hopefully, even the negative will open there eyes just a little.

And so we are clear, I do have an agenda. Its to make sure that apparatus respond in a timely manor, with sufficient personnel & equipment and the proper training to reduce the number of injuries and deaths to our brothers and the community. One thing I have found in 30+ years, there are a lot of individuals who do not want that and will do what ever it takes to prevent it.

[16fire5 693]

Very well said Barry.

There is way too much fear of consolidation in the fire service in our area and on this board. Most of the members who come one here are really into the job. What they should realize is a consolidate fire service in Westchester would probably mean better training, more activity, more job opportunities, safer operations, and better service to the public.

We would have less chiefs with facial hair, less deadwood, less unqualified personnel, less apparatus.

If I was young and growing up in the fire service in Westchester I'd be all for the first option.

[ex-commish 490]

I can’t imagine why someone would feel compelled to post something here when others with agendas, or egos, or envy, or whatever pick apart every detail of every call, decision and comment made. It really is disappointing.

It's called expressing one's opinion.