Does The Fire Chief Work For You?

[x635 4,066]

Question: Do you work for the Fire Chief, or does the Fire Chief work for you?

I'm interested to see people's interpration of the statement above.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Question: Do you work for the Fire Chief, or does the Fire Chief work for you?

I'm interested to see people's interpration of the statement above.

Depends on where you work in all actuality. For example...I actually work for the city manager. But in the spirit of the way your question is posed...both. Different sort of relationship..but firefighters work for the Chief and the Chief works for the firefighter, or at least they should by ensuring good policies are there, that they are enforced, and everything possible is done for their safety and well being. Good thread bro.

[Healz 30]

<br />Depends on where you work in all actuality. For example...I actually work for the city manager.  But in the spirit of the way your question is posed...both.  Different sort of relationship..but firefighters work for the Chief and the Chief works for the firefighter, or at least they should by ensuring good policies are there, that they are enforced, and everything possible is done for their safety and well being.  Good thread bro.<br />

In your case it changes every 2 years.

[FireMedic049 597]

Question: Do you work for the Fire Chief, or does the Fire Chief work for you?

In my specific situation - Neither.

It wouldn't be appropriate to air the details of our "dirty laundry" on here, but I'll just say that we'd be better off adding a secretary to handle administrative stuff (like payroll and record keeping) and having no Fire Chief at all than where we're at currently.

I work for the community we serve.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I work for the community. However, I was once told by a "Chief" that I was his employee...

This is a dangerous topic to be discussing.

[xchief2x 79]

I just firmly believe that the members make the Chief not the other way around and someone already said it best we work for the community we serve!

[helicopper 1,050]

Just a few responses and already some interesting perspectives about the relationship between the agency "CEO" and/or "COO" and the employees (members if you prefer).

I think most will agree that we ultimately serve the community but keeping to the point/spirit of the original post, try to describe the relationship between the "Chief" and "employees".

Looking forward to more insightful responses.

[T. John 21]

I grew up in CT, volunteering in an organization that was governed by a set of bylaws and where Chief Officers were elected by the membership. I will defer my comments about this type of structure and focus on where I am now.

I took a full-time Fire Chief's position with a combination/on-call Department in Minnesota. We have forty on-call (part-time) "employees". As a City department, all hiring (and firing) goes through Council. The Fire Chief is a department head, same as the Police Chief and other senior staff. I report directly to the City Administrator who in turn reports to the Council as a whole.

All city employees are governed by City policy. While many fire departments "back in the day" used to be governed by bylaws, this is, largely, a thing of the past. Since the fire department is a City department and funded by tax dollars, it is operated just like any other City department. In fact, the League of Minnesota Cities has issued a number of white papers on the topic of "who's is in charge" that addresses the topics of hiring, promotions, firing, command and leadership. In short, any fire department in Minnesota that is funded through tax dollars is considered a public (City) entity. As such, the department must follow all applicable human resource laws. "Voting" on membership or hiring/firing, provisions that are typically found in traditional "by-laws", is thus discouraged - if not illegal. Ultimately, the Fire Chief (and the "city") is in charge.

The City Council hired me and they are the only ones that can change that. I just sat through a neighboring Department's officer selection interviews with another outside Chief. This is an on-call Department similar to ours. Promotions are done objectively, often with an outside or third party assisting. We don't "vote" on employment matters including hiring, promotions, disciplinary matters or even firing.

I do think that the answer to this question rests partly in the structure of your organization. Aside from the fact that we all ultimately "work" for the community, if officers or members are chosen by popular vote, I would argue they ultimately work for the membership. Hiring and promotional processes need to be blind and objective. While I am a firefighter first, I still have responsibilities of being a Fire Chief. Chief Officers need to know they can make decisions - even unpopular ones. Personally, I was hired by the City Council to serve the community and to lead my organization.

Link:

Fire Department Bylaws - Who's in Charge (League of Minnesota Cities)

Edited December 17, 2011 by T. John

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Technically speaking, the chief is the officer in charge, so I'm going to say you work for the chief. He is appointed to the position by civilian authority, to do just that. Tasked with representing the citizens of the district and their best interest, as well as the best interests of the employees, the chief must find the right balancing act between all interests. That's why the job is more challenging than people give it credit for. That's why there are good and bad chiefs. I think many aspects of leadership cannot be taught, so go to all the schools you want to; you're still going to suck if you don't know how to respect employees, or how to talk to the public.

[FirNaTine 370]

I guess it also depends on if the Chief's position is an appointed one or civil service. If it's appointed he works for the Mayor for the most part and if it's civil service he usually works for the Dept. or at least should.

[FireMedic049 597]

................keeping to the point/spirit of the original post, try to describe the relationship between the "Chief" and "employees".

For us, I would describe the relationship as very strained, disconnected and sometimes embarrassing.

[Lucifer 6]

For us, I would describe the relationship as very strained, disconnected and sometimes embarrassing.

We all work for the People, and we need not forget that.

[FireMedic049 597]

We all work for the People, and we need not forget that.

Yes, I mentioned that in my original post.

[hudson144 150]

Chiefs come and they go- sometimes they don't go soon enough!!! lol

[Guest alsfirefighter]

In your case it changes every 2 years.

Maybe with the last city manager...but the 2 prior to that were the majority of my career. If you talking about Chief...that's a new head coach every 3 years. Kinda makes it hard to have a 5 year plan doesn't it.