Closing of Engine 21 in Danbury Ct.

[whitej0606 0]

Danbury Professional Fire Fighters Call Closing Engine 21 Unsafe

December 7, 2011–Danbury’s Fire Chief announced that he is taking one of the City’s most used fire engines out of service daily between 7:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., and using a SUV in its place. This decision has Danbury Professional Fire Fighters concerned that public safety is at unnecessary risk.

Danbury Fire Chief Geoffrey Herald claims the closure is a crucial cost-saving measure, but does not have any data to support that claim.

“Danbury’s professional fire fighters take pride in ensuring the safety of our citizens, but there are certain tools we need to do the job safely and effectively,” says Danbury Professional Fire Fighters Local 801 President Louis DeMici. “This includes all of our fire engines. We are asking citizens to tell the mayor and their City council members to put Engine 21 back in service 24 hours a day.”

During daytime hours, Engine 21 is replaced with a SUV that is not equipped with water and other essential tools needed for fire suppression and other emergencies. The vehicle can only transport personnel.

The unit serves the downtown area south of West Street to the Bethel Town line and the Long Ridge Road area, where the reduction in resources could be a big problem. The coverage area has several pockets of densely-populated neighborhoods, apartment buildings and schools.

“Engine 21 will be closed during school hours,” says DeMici. “We have to be ready when those emergencies do occur. The larger the building, the more equipment we need.”

The Danbury Professional Fire Fighters are an affiliate of the International Association of Fire Fighters and the Uniformed Professional Fire Fighters Association of Connecticut.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

So what is this guy trying to do; save wear and tear on a piece of fire apparatus? Is this the crucial cost savings measure? Okay, let's send the ambulance guys/gals in a jeep Wrangler, heck they only needed jeeps in MASH.

Let's send the patrolman out on a Vespa. They come in beautiful shades of blue and you can get ten of them for the price of a patrol car.

"I'm in pursuit of a Mustang...Vespa 1 is in pursuit"...

Let's send the garbage pick-up guys out in....a pick-up. They can just pile it on top.

For recycling, just have the DPW guys dump out the contents of the recycle box on the sidewalk in front of the home, presto you've recycled it.

Carry a PWE in the suburban though. Besides all this other lunacy I've listed, remember if you can't get the fire knocked down with a PWE, you might as well just let the building burn....no chance in saving it. We have to SAVE that rig, you never know how serious a fire we could get in 2014.

[prucha25 76]

I feel like this video is appropriate...

[Alpinerunner 61]

Wasn't another municipality looking at doing this for one of its engines that primarily ran medicals in its first due? I'm assuming this is the Chief's reasoning for doing it, right or wrong. It might be better compromise have them keep the engine to take to fire in their first due area, and use the SUV for medicals.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Alpinerunner

[houlidsa 76]

Buffalo was using pick ups to fill the gap a few years back. They also were facing brown outs at different quarters. I know there was at least one death that was attributed to the brown outs.

[CTFF 65]

Buffalo was using pick ups to fill the gap a few years back. They also were facing brown outs at different quarters. I know there was at least one death that was attributed to the brown outs.

Buffalo was using pickup trucks in place of ladders when then had no spare ladder trucks.

[IzzyEng4 427]

For those who don't know Danbury, Engine 21 runs out of HQ with Engine 22 and Truck 1. So maybe in their infinite wisdom, since the firehouse has two engine companies located in it, its okay to do.

List of cities who had two engine companies located in the same house

New Haven - Engine 11 & Engine 1 (disbanded), Engine 4 & Engine 2 (disbanded), Engine 6 and Engine 3 (disbanded), Engine 10 and Engine 7 (disbanded to create another company that is also disbanded), ENgine 8 and Engine 14 (disbanded).

Bridgeport - Engine 1 & Engine 5 (recently disbanded), and not counting the engine and hose wagon combinations they ran

Hartford - I forget howmany dual engine hoses there were but there were a few.

Seems like a trend to closes duplicate staffed companies is still a trend for the paid service!

[x152 179]

For those who don't know Danbury, Engine 21 runs out of HQ with Engine 22 and Truck 1. So maybe in their infinite wisdom, since the firehouse has two engine companies located in it, its okay to do.

List of cities who had two engine companies located in the same house

New Haven - Engine 11 & Engine 1 (disbanded), Engine 4 & Engine 2 (disbanded), Engine 6 and Engine 3 (disbanded), Engine 10 and Engine 7 (disbanded to create another company that is also disbanded), ENgine 8 and Engine 14 (disbanded).

Bridgeport - Engine 1 & Engine 5 (recently disbanded), and not counting the engine and hose wagon combinations they ran

Hartford - I forget howmany dual engine hoses there were but there were a few.

Seems like a trend to closes duplicate staffed companies is still a trend for the paid service!

Stamford CT: Engine 1 and Engine 6 (formerly Squad 1) out of Fire HQ.....Engine 6 relocated from HQ to staff the Glenbrook FD in 2007.

[Reliance 29]

Maybe the Fire Departments should get out of EMS work and do strictly fire & vehicle ex. duties and leave the EMS to the Medical field.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Maybe the Fire Departments should get out of EMS work and do strictly fire & vehicle ex. duties and leave the EMS to the Medical field.

Define "medical field." Just figured I'd ask since my FD is in the "medical field" and we do just fine. But then again knowing who is working and getting financial savings and great service must be a bad thing. Maybe we should run both at below needed staffing levels while they compete for funding. Or better yet bring a profit or my favorite private "not for profit" in like a revolving door and have no clue who's on an ambulance every 12 hours.

This is crazy and a very dangerous precedent. I wish the best to the Local 801 brothers.

[Guest mrengine9]

Wow, that's horrible. What happens when they get a call needing two engines? The engine and SUV will respond I guess? Does the SUV have hurst tools in there or something?

[nfd2004 750]

From what I understand, The City of New Haven (Ct) will be doing a similiar tactic. They plan to close down Engine 8, which shares quarters with Squad Co 1 and replace Engine 8 with an EMS ALS Unit. EMS is now the priority of the fire service. Over the years, with the help of the insurance companies, we have talked ourselves right out of business.

When cities that were once doing 30 working fires a month are now doing 2 fires a month, its kind of hard to defend keeping those fire companies. Over the last few years we preached smoke detectors, Learn not to burn, and now its working. Insurance companies insisted on having everything from car fires to building fires investigated, so if there was any question, the insurance company didn't have to pay a claim.

Better building codes, the use of cell phones, and fire alarm systems for early detection have also played into it. Nothing wrong with any of this. Peoples lives are saved and they don't loose their property. BUT, from an Old School prospect, "we have been putting ourselves right out of business". Do you ever hear of a lawyer preaching to stop crime or accidents ? Of course not. They want job security.

Of course I disagree with putting an Engine Co out of service, no matter what hours of the day it is. But our very own efforts have cut our own throats.

Edited December 17, 2011 by nfd2004

[efdcapt115 1,511]

From what I understand, The City of New Haven (Ct) will be doing a similiar tactic. They plan to close down Engine 8, which shares quarters with Squad Co 1 and replace Engine 8 with an EMS ALS Unit. EMS is now the priority of the fire service. Over the years, with the help of the insurance companies, we have talked ourselves right out of business.

When cities that were once doing 30 working fires a month are now doing 2 fires a month, its kind of hard to defend keeping those fire companies. Over the last few years we preached smoke detectors, Learn not to burn, and now its working. Insurance companies insisted on having everything from car fires to building fires investigated, so if there was any question, the insurance company didn't have to pay a claim.

Better building codes, the use of cell phones, and fire alarm systems for early detection have also played into it. Nothing wrong with any of this. Peoples lives are saved and they don't loose their property. BUT, from an Old School prospect, "we have been putting ourselves right out of business". Do you ever hear of a lawyer preaching to stop crime or accidents ? Of course not. They want job security.

Of course I disagree with putting an Engine Co out of service, no matter what hours of the day it is. But our very own efforts have cut our own throats.

You're totally right Willy. It's a product of the fact that morally the fire service has it's act together. Always has. That's at least one good thing left to say about it, be it a big urban job, or a small volunteer outfit way upstate. But I've heard many guys from my dad's generation of firemen say exactly the same thing you just said.

I don't think firefighters could really understand, say 40 years ago, the changes that would be coming in fire prevention, from construction type to alarm systems. We all sneered at gusset plates and truss construction. But also along the way, the construction industry got smarter about many things, particularly for the commercial space. Or hotels. Commonplace sprinkler systems were a game changer.

It's probably never been safer (from a fire perspective) to walk into a huge office skyscraper, or say a large hotel casino in Vegas; than today.

Peoples' memories are short. Even those who are old enough to remember when fires were more common find it easy to put out of their minds. They want to forget the DuPont Plaza Hotel arson fire that killed 97 people, or the MGM Grand fire in Las Vegas that killed 85, or the public assembly catastrophes like The Station fire in West Warwick, RI where they lost 100 kids in a heartbeat. Nobody, save firemen, remembers HappyLand.

9/11 jarred peoples' brains when they saw what could happen. The fire service was the beneficiary of our Brothers' sacrifices. We actually got some respect. That lasted about five years? And now the war is back on against the job. Who could have foreseen they would even go after the F D N Y...are you kidding me?

The guys on the job today have got the fight of their lives to fight; then they have to go put out the fires, do the haz-mat, the wrecks, the ems, the "value enhanced" services. Those of us retired, we've got to stay involved, offer encouragement, and most of all, pass down the traditional stuff...

Edited December 17, 2011 by efdcapt115

[IzzyEng4 427]

Willie, you are correct with what New Haven is doing with Engine 8 to re-organize the three disbanded emergency units.

( And I still owe you that coffee!!)

Edited December 17, 2011 by IzzyEng4

[peterose313 345]

Sorry to bring up an old topic but I happened to come across this article in the NewsTimes and as the year quickly is coming to an end this topic has become somewhat relevant again.

Fire Union Wants End To SUV Experiment

Edited December 29, 2011 by peterose313

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Maybe the Fire Departments should get out of EMS work and do strictly fire & vehicle ex. duties and leave the EMS to the Medical field.

That's what I don't get about this whole Danbury situation. Danbury FD used to run an ambulance and chose to give it up. There are TWO private EMS agencies in Danbury, Danbury Health Care Affiliates EMS (Danbury Hospital) and Danbury Ambulance.

[SOUSGT 357]

Buffalo was using pickup trucks in place of ladders when then had no spare ladder trucks.

In England they went with a more economical approach!

Don't let the conference of mayors see this.

By the way where would you put the turnout gear?

[JTF429 37]

Let me clear up a few things. 1) Danbury FD did NOT chose to give up their ambulance, it WAS taken away from them. Yes there are two EMS providers in the city,but the FD proudly served the residents of the city before it was taken away. The Chief and the Deputy are appointed postions by the mayor. If you read the article what is missing is that there are other ways to save money, reduce cost, and save abuse on the rigs. Preventive maintance, not just when its broken, giving the Truck company its own medical district, limiting lock outs between 7a-11p unless someone is in the car,roatating apparatus. The 9,000 calls they refer to include over 800 lockouts. There was a 90 day trial period that went on to become 4 months. In that time period there was a number of structure fires when E21's crew was in the SUV and the 2nd and 3rd due were coming from the other side of the city. The union worked hard for years to get the 6th Engine, now its an SUV half the time. What do you think will happen next, 24 hour SUV coverage? How about more than 1 in the city? I get that the administration has to try new things to save money. This is just a bad idea.