Are We Spoiled?

[Monty 35]

I was just catching up on reading Firehouse and flicked through their volunteer run survey. Looking at some of the figures for different departments made me think about how much/little other parts of the country have in way of fire protection compared to what we are used to here. All the talk of consolidation, high taxes, number of firefighters required for the job, response times etc, whether a certain city should have 1,2,3 or 6 departments.

For example:

Union Fire Co#1 in Carlisle PA has a population of 59,000, covers 165.5 sq miles with a budget of $250,000 40 members from 1 station with 5 apparatus running 810 calls a year.

Lumberton Rescue in Robeson, NC has a population of 50,000 covering 225 sq miles, a budget of $600,000 35 members 1 station, 6 apparatus and runs 3,760 calls (inc ALS)

A little bit more like home:

Wayne Township FD, Passaic NJ, pop 54,717, 27 sq miles, $150,000 170 members 5 stations 22 apparatus and 1453 runs (not sure how they support all those stations and apparatus with 150K)

How NPFA compliant are these places? Wonder what their ISO ratings are? I wonder if their insurance and taxes are lower than here though ....

Not exactly sure what my point is here - other than it's a nice quiet Friday night with a beer I guess it's just good to know what other places are like.

[sfrd18 360]

Lumberton Rescue in Robeson, NC has a population of 50,000 covering 225 sq miles, a budget of $600,000 35 members 1 station, 6 apparatus and runs 3,760 calls (inc ALS)

Wow, one station to cover 225 square miles! 225 miles is like the distance to travel from Boston to Newark, NJ! Even though it's 225 square miles, that's still a heck of a lot of ground to cover. What happens if there is a fire that requires mutual aid?

I don't think we're spoilt. I guess it all depends on where you live. Generally, a more compact and congested area, such as Manhattan, would require more firehouses per square mile than a more rural area.

Edited December 10, 2011 by sfrd18

[NYMedic37 22]

Spoiled.

[dadbo46 50]

Spoiled.

Thank you.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I was just catching up on reading Firehouse and flicked through their volunteer run survey. Looking at some of the figures for different departments made me think about how much/little other parts of the country have in way of fire protection compared to what we are used to here. All the talk of consolidation, high taxes, number of firefighters required for the job, response times etc, whether a certain city should have 1,2,3 or 6 departments.

One must be very careful when reading into the firehouse run survey. There are all sorts of info ommissions. One major one is only 1 engine, truck, station, etc. counts in the numbers. In otherwords when FDNY lists its busiest engine with say 5,000 runs, the engine with 4,999 and 4,998 do not get into the survey and the next unit list from the xyz dept may only have 3,000 runs (making 20+ FDNY rigs busier but not listed). Note: all number made up as examples.

For example: Union Fire Co#1 in Carlisle PA has a population of 59,000, covers 165.5 sq miles with a budget of $250,000 40 members from 1 station with 5 apparatus running 810 calls a year.

Carlisle PA has Union Fire Co #1 and Carlisle Fire & Rescue (which is the boroughs offical dept.) They claim to have 80 active members, covering the same area. Very common in PA to have multiple departments in the same town.

Wayne Township FD, Passaic NJ, pop 54,717, 27 sq miles, $150,000 170 members 5 stations 22 apparatus and 1453 runs (not sure how they support all those stations and apparatus with 150K)

Different muncipalities place budgets in different areas. I have seen FD's that have very low budgets like this, but maintenance iscover in the central garage budget, insurance in the risk management budget, stations (& fuel, utilities, etc.) in public works. So without seeing the total budget.

[Task Force 7 65]

I guess I'm spoiled!! This is what I have watching over me.

Fort Worth Fire Rescue

Fire Department Budget: $103,562,348 (10/01/2008 to 09/30/2009 Fiscal Year)

Personnel: 904 Civil Service & 45 Civilian.

Estimated population served: 700,000+

Square miles covered: 344

Workweek (Operations personnel): 56 hours

Facilities: 42 Stations in 6 Battalions

Frontline Apparatus: 37 Engines, 10 Quints, 4 Trucks, 6 Aircraft Rescue, 13 Brush (4x4) Units, 2 Utility/Light & Air, 2 Water Tankers, 1 Command Unit, 1 HazMat/Rescue Squad.

Reserves Apparatus: 10 Engines, 5 Quints

Responses: Over 82,000 incidents annually, 60% related to Emergency Medical Services.

As a minimum, all civil service personnel are trained as Emergency Medical Technicians-Basic. The department operates as a First Responder with patient transportation provided by MedStar.

Specialized areas include: Aircraft Rescue Firefighting, Dive Team / Swift Water Rescue, Technical Rescue, Explosive Ordinance Disposal, and Hazardous Materials.

Automatic / Contract / or Mutual aid agreements: 12 (Arlington, Benbrook, Blue Mound, Burleson, Denton, Edgecliff Village, Euless, Forest Hill, Haltom City, Hurst, Lockheed Martin, NAS JRB Fort Worth)

ISO Rating: 2 (2/10)

[helicopper 1,050]

Has anyone ever analyzed the cost of the fire service in Westchester County? The 59 or so FD's cover about 470 square miles and over 900k people with tons of apparatus but at what cost? Does anyone know?

[sfrd18 360]

Spoiled.

Oops, my bad. Thanks!

[NJMedic 96]

In reference to Wayne Township, NJ....

There is no Wayne Twp Fire Department per se. The "Wayne Township Fire Department" is an umbrella name of 5 independently run fire companies, hence the name. No one in Wayne is hurting for money. For example check out the assortment of apparatus Wayne has at

http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/otherstates/Passaic%20County.htm

More about the "WTFD" can be found here: http://www.waynetownship.com/fire.htm

More about the Wayne First Aid Squad can be found at: http://www.waynefas.com/index.php

[Bnechis 3,961]

Has anyone ever analyzed the cost of the fire service in Westchester County? The 59 or so FD's cover about 470 square miles and over 900k people with tons of apparatus but at what cost? Does anyone know?

This is a very difficult proposition. Fire Districts are easy, since 100% of the cost is in their district budget. But City & Village Fire Dept. budgets are very difficult to calculate since many municipalities do not do dept. based budgets. For example, so FD's do not pay for the fire station, fuel, utilities and maintenance (vehicle & station)as they are covered under DPW's budget. New apparatus which is bonded, may be carried in the municipal capital budget, not the FD's. liability & property/vehicle Insurance under the risk manager, health insurance and pension or LOSAP under personnel.

In one study a 25 man career fire district was budgeting almost 2x what a 45 man career municipal dept was. I thought it should havebeen the other way around, but found all of those things listed above covered by the district and none in the municipal FD budget. The municipal fd budget only covered salary & equipment, all other costs were covered by other departments.

[TRUCK6018 50]

For example:

Union Fire Co#1 in Carlisle PA has a population of 59,000, covers 165.5 sq miles with a budget of $250,000 40 members from 1 station with 5 apparatus running 810 calls a year.

Having frequented that area some time ago there is more than one company as Barry stated. Additionally, per Union Fire Company's web site they only cover 85 square miles! Half of what Firehouse claims.