How Can we Prevent Tragedies on College Campuses?

[firedude 985]

After the recent shooting on the VA Tech Campus, how can we beter prevent these incidents? Not just colleges, but all schools. Is it all about education and training? Thoughts?

[osufire90 18]

As a current college student, I am not sure what the best way to prevent events like this from occurring. Increased police presence on the university may help. At Ohio State, our university police have their own swat team, and they are not afraid to show the team off to the student population. Perhaps knowing that a force like that exists would deter any would be shooter.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

North Hollywood, Columbine, VA Tech, etc have all showed showed the "wait for SWAT" technique does not work. For mass shootings PD's time and time again have advocated Active Shooter training and an aggressive patrol rifle program. The cop on the street needs to be able to intervene immediately. That's just common sense.

Yesterday's incident isn't something that's really college campus oriented though, and isn't an active shooter either. This is a scenario that occurs relatively frequently as far as police LODDs go. Traffic stops turn deadly all the time, addressing it as a "college campus" issue I think isn't really an accurate way to treat it. However, giving University Police agencies the tools and training they need as opposed to college administrations treating them like highly paid security guards with guns. Not saying that's necessarily the case in this particular incident, but a lot of times Campus PD's get bastardized.

But the specific way to help prevent incidents like this at traffic stops? 2 Officer cars. It may not PREVENT the shooting, but 2 trained individuals with guns are better than 1.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Yesterday's tragedy was an ambush while the officer was on a traffic stop. There was a shooter on campus that had not been caught at the time of the shooting so it is and Active Shooter case in my opinion. Lock down of the campus was a smart thing to do.

As for 2 man police cars, I don't see that happening in very many places when PD's are talking about budget cuts and laying PO's off.

[JJB531 652]

There really is no steadfast, reasonable way to completely prevent these incidents from occurring. There are some steps though that can help prevent active shooter incidents.

#1 - Early identification, recognition, and mitigation of individuals who have exhibited signs of being a potential threat. Some signs may include: individuals who gave made verbal or written threats of violence against an individual or group of individuals; individuals who sympathize or have a "morbid" curiosity with previous active shooter incidents; individuals who exhibit increasing erratic behavior, individuals with an "unhealthy" fascination with weapons, etc. The list goes on, but these are just a few examples. With a proper Violence Reduction Program, these individuals, once identified, can be addressed in the means necessary. Doesn't mean it's 100% guaranteed to work, but if it does, then the effort was worthwhile.

#2 - Proper preplanning through formal Emergency Action/Active Shooter Response plans. This includes the school and local emergency responders actually sitting down at the table and coming up with a response plan in the event of an active shooter incident.

#3 - Increased police presence. This may prevent some individuals from carrying out their plans, but true active shooters are in the mindset that they expect a large scale police response, and yet still carry out their plans. An increased police presence increases the likelihood of law enforcement engaging these individuals early on in the event, thus preventing further casualties.

#4 - Proper training for school administrators, faculty, and students on how they should respond and conduct themselves in the event of an active shooter incident. While this may not prevent one from occurring, being properly trained and prepared increases chances for surviving one of these incidents, thereby decreasing the number of casualties.

It is near impossible, unless you plan on screening every single student who steps foot on campus, which is just not feasible on most campuses, even community college campuses, to mitigate the problem with 100% certainty. The points I mentioned are just some ideas that can help to deter, prevent, and decrease the impact of these incidents.

[v85 212]

-<quote='JJB531'> Early identification, recognition, and mitigation of individuals who have exhibited signs of being a potential threat. Some signs may include: individuals who gave made verbal or written threats of violence against an individual or group of individuals; individuals who sympathize or have a "morbid" curiosity with previous active shooter incidents; individuals who exhibit increasing erratic behavior, individuals with an "unhealthy" fascination with weapons, etc. The list goes on, but these are just a few examples. With a proper Violence Reduction Program, these individuals, once identified, can be addressed in the means necessary. Doesn't mean it's 100% guaranteed to work, but if it does, then the effort was worthwhile.<\quote>

The only problems with this solution are define "morbid" curiosity and an "unhealthy" fascination with weapons.

What happens when a student whose father is a SWAT officer, is an avid hunter, and competes in sanctioned competitions gets identified by this system and forced into unneeded counseling. Take it a step further and say it prevents them from obtaining a law enforcement job, or any job requiring a security clearence, what is the recoruse? Not saying the overall idea is bad, but you need to tread carefully here

Edited December 9, 2011 by v85

[JJB531 652]

The only problems with this solution are define "morbid" curiosity and an "unhealthy" fascination with weapons.

What happens when a student whose father is a SWAT officer, is an avid hunter, and competes in sanctioned competitions gets identified by this system and forced into unneeded counseling. Take it a step further and say it prevents them from obtaining a law enforcement job, or any job requiring a security clearence, what is the recoruse? Not saying the overall idea is bad, but you need to tread carefully here

First, I never stated it was a solution to the problem. There is no real solution.

To address your statement, individuals who are avid hunters or compete in sanctioned shooting competitions are examples of individuals who utilize firearms for legitimate/recreational purposes, and should be identified as such. The individual who owns 92 rifles and handguns, is not an has never been a licensed hunter, doesn't compete in sanctioned shooting events, and utilizes his/her firearms to eliminate the neighborhood dog population, may raise my suspicion a bit. Now combine that with the fact that this individual has a poster of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold on his wall, and constantly talks about how he wants to wipe out the football team simply because they're the cool guys on campus, and now we're onto something. The points I made as individual identifiers are usually not the sole issue at hand, but it's a combination of these identifiers as a whole that should raise suspicion.

[v85 212]

I understand what you are saying. It's just that some college professors/administrators wouldn't make any distinction between the two. Some are so uber-liberal that all they would see is that there is a young person with an "immature brain" who isn't as scared as they are, and are therefore a threat.

I have even read reports of uniformed campus police officers who were taking classes at the school they worked, asked to leave the classroom because the professor didn't like there being a gun in the room while he was teaching.

[JJB531 652]

I agree that it is a fine line and is open to different levels of interpretation based on an individuals views/beliefs of firearm possession. If there is a suspicion about a student/individual, it's generally better to bring it to someones attention rather then just ignore it ("if you see something, say something" is what we tell the general public about potential terrorist activity and suspicious packages). Hopefully if it is discovered that an individual uses firearms for legitimate/responsible/recreational purposes, and doesn't exhibit any other warning signs, then the "investigation" ends there.

[sueg 77]

Looks like JJB531 was right with his # 1 and # 3 statements, because according to the AP and Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller, "a Deputy Sheriff on patrol after the shootings then noticed a man at the back of a parking lot about 1/2 mile from the shooting. The man was by himself and acting "a little suspicious". The Officer drove around to approach him, lost sight of the man," then found him on the ground with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Senseless Shooter is dead because he felt he had nowhere to run, and alert Officer helped prevent more shootings by recognizing suspicious behavior.

Edited December 9, 2011 by sueg

[v85 212]

Did they say anything about a motive yet? I'm guessing suicide by cop, I mean, shooting a police officer pretty much guarantees one of two outcomes, either the police shoot you, or you go to prison for life, and in VA, FL, TX, get the death penalty.

[JJB531 652]

Did they say anything about a motive yet? I'm guessing suicide by cop, I mean, shooting a police officer pretty much guarantees one of two outcomes, either the police shoot you, or you go to prison for life, and in VA, FL, TX, get the death penalty.

I'm going to be curious to see if there was a known history between the deceased officer and the perp. If so, the officer may have been intentionally targeted.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I'm going to be curious to see if there was a known history between the deceased officer and the perp. If so, the officer may have been intentionally targeted.

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=thejournalnews&sParam=38113607.story

Va. Tech shooter didn't know campus cop he killed

By Bob Lewis And Zinie Chen Sampson, Associated Press

BLACKSBURG, Va. — The man who killed a Virginia Tech police officer walked up to the patrolman he did not know and fired, then took off for the campus greenhouses, ditching his pullover, wool cap and backpack. He made his way to a nearby parking lot and when a deputy spotted him, he took his own life, leaving fresh questions on a campus still coping with the nation's worst mass slaying in recent memory.

[JJB531 652]

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=thejournalnews&sParam=38113607.story

Va. Tech shooter didn't know campus cop he killed

Very interesting... Leaves a lot of unanswered questions as to why.....

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I'm going to be curious to see if there was a known history between the deceased officer and the perp. If so, the officer may have been intentionally targeted.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2102022,00.html

Police Identify Va. Tech Gunman

(BLACKSBURG, Va.) — Police identified the Virginia Tech gunman on Friday as a part-time college student from nearby Radford University, though they still have not been able to say what led him to kill a police officer and then himself.

Ross Truett Ashley, 22

[helicopper 1,050]

The location of the tragedy seems to be coincidental. The gunman targeted a police officer on a traffic stop; it could just as easily have been off campus as on.

Sadly, there is very little that can be done to prevent an ambush.

[rutola413 5]

I believe some time ago (maybe a year) I read an article online about one college campus, I believe in CO, rallying for the students to carry concealed weapons. Yes, this in itself could be a proble, because that student will have access to all buildings, and nobody would think twice if he/she had a firearm. However, I think it may be a good thing. In my mind, student A starts fireing, while student B,C,D,E draw thier weapons, and eliminate the threat.

It can go both ways, but perhaps this just might help prevent school shootings.

[RNEMT26 40]

This isn't a solely a 'college' problem, this is a societal problem. Screwed up people with access to firearms, and no one ever says anything because it's always the famous line of 'well we didn't think he would really do it" Unfortunately, we as a soceity will never be able to eliminate the possibility of some deranged person grabbing a gun walking over to the local mall and killing everyone in sight. Unfortunately, it's something we just have to live with, take away all the guns then maybe you have some possiblity of decreasing how often things like this occur. But if the gang bangers can get them illegaly then obviously anyone else can, so is there a good way to fix all of this? Don't think so. It's something that can happen anywhere at anytime, and if it does while you're around...duck.

[v85 212]

I think the one way to reduce things like this happening, is something that no one will ever officially advocate, because it is not "PC". Basically it is to restore the model that people who are seriously mentally ill belong in secured inpatient facilities "mental hospitals".

What happened is that a couple of decades ago everyone was pushing community treatment, but they did not give the community treatment programs appropriate funding. This meant that the mentally ill people released in these programs could not be correctly treated and supervised, and you end up with situations like VA Tech (the first incident).

Along with this idea, insurance companies need to reimburse hospitals better for psych. patients. Right now hospitals are either closing psych units, or pushing psych patients out as quick as possible because they are not making money on those beds.

Of course, all of the above assume that the problem is mental illness. When the problem is violent criminals being on the street (Oakland CA and Lakewood WA Police shootings) the solution there is quite obvious, keep those people in prison for a long time.

Edited December 10, 2011 by v85