Scranton firefighters refusing OT

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

The times-tribune.com

As members of the Scranton Fire Department and their supporters rally against the closing of firehouses, firefighters are refusing to work overtime shifts, leading to fewer firehouses being open, according to city and fire officials.

City officials say firefighters' refusal to work overtime shifts en masse has resulted in just three stations and four companies open on some days because of a vehicle minimum staffing level. At least six fire stations are open and seven vehicles are in service the majority of the time, city officials say.

Read more: http://thetimes-trib...e#ixzz1g3I16IQU

Edited December 9, 2011 by jack10562
Quote source

[x129K 1,393]

Interesting...but one has to wonder if they are helping their plight....or hurting it?

[NWFDMedic 58]

They must be getting paid pretty well to refuse OT. Wouldn't they eventually be mandated if minimum staffing was not met?

[lad12derff 283]

They must be getting paid pretty well to refuse OT. Wouldn't they eventually be mandated if minimum staffing was not met?

Do you really feel that way with your statement? There comes a point when we must draw a line in the sand. Have you ever come off a real $h!tty 24 and said I need my 72 to recoup? Don't you think we want to spend quality time with our families? Don't you think that the fun of the siren and horns wears off after time and we really are at work? There is a thought in the fire service that we can reduce the number of employees to a certain number when it will becomes cost effective to hire overtime to man the spots and save on the benefits. This is a fact and it will work. Do you want to work every other day 24, away from your wife and kids ( some of you will answer yes ) and not have any kind of life? I don't and I am sure my Brothers from Scranton don't. So the fact is we are not millionaires who have money to burn. We want to get away from the crap for a few before we have to dive back in.

Edited December 9, 2011 by lad12derff

[helicopper 1,050]

It's an interesting situation and I applaud them for taking a stand. Many many many jobs use OT to avoid hiring and this reinforces the fact that they're understaffed. They've laid off members and filled their shifts with OT. Now the refusal of OT points out two things - they need more people and OT can't be relied upon to guarantee coverage.

It's not about their pay or the desire/need for OT. It's about standing together and trying to improve working conditions, an act seldom seen in the EMS community where we happily step over the still warm body of our brethren to take their shift or fill a position. There is little if any solidarity in EMS.

[FireMedic049 597]

Much, much, much more to this story.

They (along with the PD) have been involved in a lengthy legal battle for most of the last decade with their city - specifically the Mayor. They recently had a major victory in a case before the State Supreme Court that will have a MAJOR financial impact on an already "broke" city. The Mayor has been essentially engaging in retaliatory action since, along with his normal shots at the FD union. The Mayor has been caught repeatedly in lies regarding FD cuts and station closures.

Much too much stuff to list and explain in this forum.

Another recent article.

http://www.golackawanna.com/news/Doherty_rsquo_s_Act_47_testimony_eyes_unions__arbitration_12-11-2011.html

Edited December 12, 2011 by FireMedic049

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Interesting read, both links thanks guys for posting them.

Whether it be Scranton, Pennsylvania (if you know the Harry Chapin song about something that happened in Scranton, you get the "Honorable Hippie" Award ) or some city in California, seems like the message is always the same. I'll give politicians credit for one thing; they sure can go about vilifying people in public service, and do so effectively.

I don't know how they managed to create this "pension envy" in this country, but they did one heck of a job. This fight in Scranton, and greater Pennsylvania, all boils down to "unfunded liabilities." Whoever thought up that terminology gets the "Koch Brothers Scumbag of the Decade Award" (giving out lots of awards today).

It's been stated many times, but I'm going to do it again; the reason cops and firefighters have pensions and sometimes use them is because of the toll the job takes on you physically. Whether it be eight hours in a patrol car; jumping in and out chasing gangsters around a small city in Pennsylvania, tackling bad guys, making arrests...or you want to take your chances on a career fire department, good luck. The stress alone can be enough to kill you.

This is the reason why cops and firefighters get pensions. Okay? It was part of the deal that was created over decades, as Brother and Sister police officers and firefighters DIED, became disabled, wrecked bodies and paid a pretty heavy price for the benefits the guys and gals may get today. We are NOT "unfunded liabilities." We are part of the social contract that once made America a worldwide leader in economics and humanity. Now, what have we become as a country?

Mayors like this obnoxious Doherty guy, I've seem more than my fair share of them. A lot of them go down in a ball of flame, corrupted by power and greed. Many of them have worse baggage than ANY career public servant does. I've also known a few GOOD politicians in my time. They are a rare breed of folk, who take responsibility for good relations with public employees seriously, and don't hurl insults and accusations at the guys and gals doing the job, protecting you from certain anarchy that would come from us NOT being there.

I'm sure, just as in every other city, in Scranton there's a monnied power elite, who have been collectively giving their city and this country the middle finger and the shaft for a very long time. They are the same people who moved out all the good manufacturing jobs over to India, and decimated the working class of the private sector before they set about on their agenda to bring havoc and doom to public employees.

Scranton firefighters are refusing overtime because it's BLOOD MONEY. You want to lay off guys, and then pay another guy to come in and fill his boots, while your BROTHER sits home now unemployed...that's blood money. I'm happy for Scranton firefighters taking a stance based on principle. Tell the mayor to go jump in the river.

[FireMedic049 597]

I don't know how they managed to create this "pension envy" in this country, but they did one heck of a job. This fight in Scranton, and greater Pennsylvania, all boils down to "unfunded liabilities." Whoever thought up that terminology gets the "Koch Brothers Scumbag of the Decade Award" (giving out lots of awards today).

It's been stated many times, but I'm going to do it again; the reason cops and firefighters have pensions and sometimes use them is because of the toll the job takes on you physically. Whether it be eight hours in a patrol car; jumping in and out chasing gangsters around a small city in Pennsylvania, tackling bad guys, making arrests...or you want to take your chances on a career fire department, good luck. The stress alone can be enough to kill you.

This is the reason why cops and firefighters get pensions. Okay? It was part of the deal that was created over decades, as Brother and Sister police officers and firefighters DIED, became disabled, wrecked bodies and paid a pretty heavy price for the benefits the guys and gals may get today. We are NOT "unfunded liabilities." We are part of the social contract that once made America a worldwide leader in economics and humanity. Now, what have we become as a country?

Another reason why we have pensions and is often left out of the pension conversation is that many of us will not be receiving Social Security in retirement. We do not pay in and therefore will not collect any SS benefits unless we have enough secondary employment income in which we paid into SS to qualify. Even then, we won't receive "full benefits" and will likely have paid in more than we will receive in benefits.

On the "unfunded liability" front regarding pensions, another point that is often left out of the conversation is that a frequent factor in pension funds being "under funded" is because municipalities often take "payment holidays" on what is supposed to be their contribution if the investments are performing good enough. However, the employees make their full payment (whatever it may be) every payday.

Scranton firefighters are refusing overtime because it's BLOOD MONEY. You want to lay off guys, and then pay another guy to come in and fill his boots, while your BROTHER sits home now unemployed...that's blood money. I'm happy for Scranton firefighters taking a stance based on principle. Tell the mayor to go jump in the river.

Damn straight!

I know Dave, Local 60's President personally. Very good guy.

[helicopper 1,050]

Interesting read, both links thanks guys for posting them.

Whether it be Scranton, Pennsylvania (if you know the Harry Chapin song about something that happened in Scranton, you get the "Honorable Hippie" Award )

Yes, we have no bananas... 30,000 pounds of bananas to be exact!

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Yes, we have no bananas... 30,000 pounds of bananas to be exact!

Ding ding!!! We have a winner!

[vtach39680 23]

30,000 pounds of mashed bananas

[Guest truck1234]

What about the politicans that double dip. Retire from one job with a nice state pension and get elected or appointted to a nice 6 figure state job. Albany is full of them.