The EMS Mess in Saratoga Springs

[firedude 985]

For those who are not familiar, Saratoga Springs is a City located in Upstate New York (30 miles north of Albany), and is home to $28,000 residents, more in the summer. Saratoga EMS (SEMS), which is a private non-profit, and is the primary tratsport service for the entire city and the neighboring town of Greenfield, is attempting to dissolve. Up until a week ago, None of their 40 employees or city officials was aware of this. According to the IRS, SEMS lost $54,830 last year and wants to transfer it certificate to a for-profit ambulance service. The City of Saratoga Spring has to know evaluate their EMS System. The Saratoga Springs Fire Department(SSFD) currently provides ALS first response and could potentially take over transport services. Other options include, having Empire Ambulance(for-profit) or surrounding volunteer agencies (Wilton EMS & Malta Ambulance Corps) take over. SEMS went to The Regional EMS Council of the Hudson Mohawk Valleys(REMSCO) for approval, but was denied for not having proper paperwork. They plan to try again at the next meeting on Jan 23.

WNYT NBC Albany Article with Video

Several Newspaper Articles on the topic:

Mayor, EMS talk transfer: Saratoga Springs city officials, SEMS, Empire examine available options

Oversight in paperwork delays planned SEMS switch in Saratoga Springs and Greenfield

City Public Safety officials, SEMS employees say they were blindsided by potential deal with Empire Ambulance

Empire Ambulance set to take over ambulance services in Saratoga Springs and Greenfield

SEMS to redraw ambulance contract with city

City Public Safety officials, SEMS employees say they were blindsided by potential deal with Empire Ambulance

Edited December 3, 2011 by firedude

[x635 4,066]

Is this the same Empire Ambulance that used to serve Putnam County?

Personally, give the FD the entire EMS system. Other systems, including for profit companies, always have some sort of drama component. You know the FD ain't going anywhere, and if they already have ALS first response, they are already halfway there.

It should also be noted that Saratoga Springs also hosts one of the preimer throughbred horse race, the Travers, in August. It's also a beautiful place to live from what I understand. That's if you don't need an ambulance.

[firedude 985]

Is this the same Empire Ambulance that used to serve Putnam County?

Personally, give the FD the entire EMS system. Other systems, including for profit companies, always have some sort of drama component. You know the FD ain't going anywhere, and if they already have ALS first response, they are already halfway there.

It should also be noted that Saratoga Springs also hosts one of the preimer throughbred horse race, the Travers, in August. It's also a beautiful place to live from what I understand. That's if you don't need an ambulance.

I think you are confusing Empire EMS (Now Hudson Valley Paramedic Services / Regional EMS) with Empire Ambulance.

I totaly agree, FD should take over. According to their website, they currently have 23 Paramedics, 2 Critical Care Technicians, 13 EMT-Intermediate and 14 EMTs. Hopefuly they can hire the laid off SEMS employes, SSFD is already at minimum staffing. They even have an ambulance, currently being used as a rehab vehicle.

Photo from the SSFD IAFF Local 343 facebook page.

For those who haven't been to Saratoga, I STRONGLY suggest making the trip. As a part-time resident of Saraotga, this town is beautiful! It's a little cold now, but try to come up during the racing season. Great bars and restaurants and awesome concerts at SPAC! There is fun for all.

Edited December 4, 2011 by firedude

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Gross mismangement, let someone else do it.

[JackEMT 77]

"SEMS Union Representative Gary Favro" from http://saratogian.com/articles/2011/11/23/news/doc4ecd5093e7c53224057945.txt

Is this the same Gary Favro from Troy Fire?

[firedude 985]

"SEMS Union Representative Gary Favro" from http://saratogian.com/articles/2011/11/23/news/doc4ecd5093e7c53224057945.txt

Is this the same Gary Favro from Troy Fire?

I think so, but he is now retired from Troy FD.

[sympathomedic 383]

So they applied to their region for permission to dissolve and were denied? So they cannot quit cuz someone said they can't?

[firedude 985]

Just some info about the SSFD. They are awesome deparmtent but have some serious issues. These are some reasons why FD shoudn't take over...

1. Saratoga Springs Fire Fighters are more than just firefighters. We do Fire/Ems, hazmat, auto extrication, search/rescue, confined space, ice/water rescue, high and low angle rope rescue.

2. According to 2006 GIS study- the Fire Department is already understaffed.

3. Only 59% of city is in compliance with response times for Fire/Ems, Source: NFPA Standards and AHA guidelines.

4. Growth of the City- City has grown more than 20% in the last three decades and the number of buildings have grown even more while staffing levels of the FD has only increased by 1 firefighter in that time.

5. City Politicians are looking to reduce the number of firefighters by 25% with impacts being that public safety is being compromised and there will be a reduction in firefighters responding to incidents and response times will decrease.

6. Tax rates for fire protection in the city are already lower than state and county averages. Saratoga residents pay $1.21 per thousand dollars of assessment and the state average is $4.61 per thousand dollars of assessment. Source: NYS Comptrollers office

7. We are consistently leaving areas of the city unprotected when we respond to other areas of the city.

8. Periodic closing of the West Avenue firehouse.

9. Fire insurance rates will increase if FD staffing levels are reduced. Residential insurance rates will increase approximately 25% and commercial rates will increase approximately 32%.

10. The FD is approaching 800 simultaneous calls which will leave the city unprotected with no one to respond

Source

Edited December 7, 2011 by firedude

[Medicone 14]

From what the news is reporting, SEMS BOD decided one meeting that they were losing money and somehow chose Empire Ambulance (Troy) as the agency they would "gift" their ambulance operating certificate to.

SEMS is not asking region to dissolve; Empire Ambulance is asking the region to approve the CON transfer from SEMS to them. Empire doesn't have a license for that area which is one of the reasons their bid to provide EMS service to Saratoga was cancelled last year when the City issued the RFP. Mohawk has a license for the area and offered to take over SEMS previously; however, SEMS seems to want Empire to get their license for some reason.

So basically, SEMS is going to stop service no matter what; the fighting now is Empire trying to get their hands on a CON for the area. If SEMS stops service for 30 days before the transfer, Empire might not be able to get their hands on that $$, I mean license.

Other issue that came up I believe is that SEMS, a 501c3, needs to have a dissolution plan approved by the attorney general; basically, how they will legally divide the assets. Their CON is an asset worth $$, so the AG will probably look into why Empire is getting it for free v. selling it and paying off debt/donating monies to charity.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Medicone

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Just some info about the SSFD. They are awesome deparmtent but have some serious issues. These are some reasons why FD shoudn't take over...

Source

That's some pretty serious issues. I'm trying to figure out how they got their avg. tax rate for fire protection vs. state average. I checked the comptrollers website but couldn't find anything that specific.

[firedude 985]

That's some pretty serious issues. I'm trying to figure out how they got their avg. tax rate for fire protection vs. state average. I checked the comptrollers website but couldn't find anything that specific.

This might help...

City of Saratoga Springs Facts

 FY 2010 taxable properties are $ 3,071,651,564.00. This is an increase of 1.41% from FY 2009.1

 City has $ 6,139,258.44 encumbered & unspent in the current Rec Center Bond2

 2007 Statewide Medium City Ranking:3

o Saratoga Springs: ranked #41 @ 0.43% Effective Tax Rate

o Glens Falls: ranked #28 @ 0.93% Effective Tax Rate

o Troy: ranked #18 @ 1.28% Effective Tax Rate

 Recreation department has INCREASE budget for FY 2010, totaling $ 437,547.90. This is a 25.15% increase from FY 2009.4

 Additional 1.5654% increase of present tax rate will keep all firefighters proposed to be cut/defunded. 4

 New indoor recreation center has budget for FY ’10 of $ 276,030.00. 4

o $ 250,000.00 alone is for “new equipment”. 4

[firedude 985]

That's some pretty serious issues. I'm trying to figure out how they got their avg. tax rate for fire protection vs. state average. I checked the comptrollers website but couldn't find anything that specific.

This might help... City of Saratoga Springs Facts

Got to information (Right menu) then click on Per Capita Fire Cost. They put sources on the bottom of the page.

Here is some additional info... And their average salery is only $49,872. This was all made last year when the mayor tried to lay-off firefighters.

Edited December 7, 2011 by firedude

[Guest alsfirefighter]

This might help...

Kinda...but I was trying to find the info for somewhere else.

[firedude 985]

Just to give you guys a quick update, the city council heard the proposals today.

The Fire Department proposed:

-Purchase 1 ambulance for a total of 2 (According to chief, 2 ambulances could only handle 50% of city's EMS calls)

-Hire 1 new firefighter/EMT

-expects revenues to be $379,000 - $829,000

Empire Ambulance and Mohawk Ambulance proposed:

-rent out fire station (currently used as SEMS HQ)

-hire SEMS employees

-expects revenues to be $150,000 - $200,000

Who will provide ambulance service to Saratoga Springs?

By: C.J. Spang

SARATOGA SPRINGS, N.Y. -- With Saratoga Emergency Medical Services expected to close its doors at the end of the month, someone will soon have to provide ambulance service in the city. Various organizations made their proposals to the city council Thursday.

YNN Article and Video

Saratoga Springs Fire Chief: We can provide ambulance service to city

Published: Thursday, January 12, 2012

SARATOGA SPRINGS — Saratoga Springs Fire Chief Robert Williams told the City Council he would like to see the fire department’s ambulance put into service to not only respond to emergency medical service calls in the city, but also to transport people to the hospital, a role that has been, to this point, provided by Saratoga Emergency Medical Services.

The Saratogain Article and Pictures

Edited January 13, 2012 by firedude

[firedude 985]

It's official... The Saratoga Springs Fire Department will take over ambulance service (temporarily).

Saratoga Springs City Council authorizes city fire department to take over ambulance services

Published: Wednesday, January 18, 2012

By LUCIAN McCARTY and EMILY DONOHUE

SARATOGA SPRINGS — The Saratoga Springs Fire Department has authorization from the city council to operate ambulance service in the Spa City on a temporary basis.

Full Article

Edited January 18, 2012 by firedude

[JM15 386]

The Fire Department proposed:

-Purchase 1 ambulance for a total of 2 (According to chief, 2 ambulances could only handle 50% of city's EMS calls)

If the FD can only handle 50% of the City's EMS calls... Who is doing the other half? or am I missing something?

[MoFire390 118]

Is this the same Empire Ambulance that used to serve Putnam County?

Personally, give the FD the entire EMS system. Other systems, including for profit companies, always have some sort of drama component. You know the FD ain't going anywhere, and if they already have ALS first response, they are already halfway there.

It should also be noted that Saratoga Springs also hosts one of the preimer throughbred horse race, the Travers, in August. It's also a beautiful place to live from what I understand. That's if you don't need an ambulance.

ok 2 answers for your post... but I understand your logic.

1. The Empire that is refered is not ESA/HVP/CARE1. Just Empire Ambulance Service.

2. If the fire department takes it over they won't be able to bill. I sat thru the lecture of Fire Based EMS at JEMS last year. With am area that has such a low income until the summer season does not seem feisable to have a fire based EMS.

Now my 2 cents:

I sure hope that everything works out for them. Maybe a name change and a new certificate would help them out with going from not for profit to for profit. Just a thought. anyway I hope everything works out for them

[IzzyEng4 427]

If the FD can only handle 50% of the City's EMS calls... Who is doing the other half? or am I missing something?

In the first news article, the fire chief stated the FD could handle between 50 to 90% of the calls. The article also stated if the FD only handled 50% of the calls, the profit was over $300,000, which is the high end of the profit the private ambulance firms said the city would make.

Also MoFire, the FD may not be able to bill for BLS transports, but if its an ALS transport, they can bill if I am not mistaking but also I'm only taking in account what I know, I do not know what NYS law is for that. It depends how the service is actually set up if its a municipality-provided service or added on.

Edited January 18, 2012 by IzzyEng4

[Bnechis 3,961]

If the fire department takes it over they won't be able to bill. I sat thru the lecture of Fire Based EMS at JEMS last year.

Municipal FD (City & Village) in NYS are allowed to bill for EMS Transport (ALS & BLS), Fire Districts (towns) are not.

Currently there is proposed legislation to include all FD's. But it has been proposed many times before and never passed.

[firedude 985]

If the FD can only handle 50% of the City's EMS calls... Who is doing the other half? or am I missing something?

No.. you are right, there is something missing. Unfortunately, that other 50% will be made up by surrounding volunteer agencies (Malta Ambulance, Wilton EMS and Bolston Spa Ambulance). Some students at Skidmore College(located in Saratoga) have proposed plans to start a volunteer, student-run EMS group for the campus and surrounding area. They have been delayed in starting up since they need to work with the current service provider, and up to last night, it was still undecided. They were targeting a start date of September 2012. At some point, I'm sure they will be added to the equation.

Another Article:

Spa City firefighters to provide ambulance service

By: C.J. Spang

SARATOGA SPRINGS, N.Y. -- "They are firemen, but they're also EMS providers," said Public Safety Commissioner Chris Mathiesen. "I think we're getting more from them. We've invested in their training. Let's see if we can get more out of this."

Full YNN Artilce and Video

Edited January 19, 2012 by firedude

[Medicone 14]

In the first news article, the fire chief stated the FD could handle between 50 to 90% of the calls. The article also stated if the FD only handled 50% of the calls, the profit was over $300,000, which is the high end of the profit the private ambulance firms said the city would make.

Also MoFire, the FD may not be able to bill for BLS transports, but if its an ALS transport, they can bill if I am not mistaking but also I'm only taking in account what I know, I do not know what NYS law is for that. It depends how the service is actually set up if its a municipality-provided service or added on.

Certain Fire Departments can bill for EMS services; specifically, just not volunteer Fire Departments. It depends on how the department was chartered an organized. Volunteer Fire Department ambulances are prohibited from billing for EMS transports by legislation.

I believe Saratoga FD is organized as a career Fire Department and would be able to bill for any level of EMS transport service they provide; ALS or BLS.

[firedude 985]

I believe Saratoga FD is organized as a career Fire Department and would be able to bill for any level of EMS transport service they provide; ALS or BLS.

Yes, they are organized as a career FD.

It seams the press is bashing the FD. But I have to say, the City needed to decide fast and this was their best temporay option.

Trust this with your life?

January 18, 2012 at 5:46 pm by Dennis Yusko

The Saratoga Springs Fire Department could undertake primary ambulance services for the city’s nearly 30,000 residents as soon as next week.

Full Article

The SSFD should start transporing in as little as next week.

Edited January 19, 2012 by firedude

[ny10570 745]

No legislation will pass barring all FDs froom billing EMS. In todays tax obsessed political environment no way would forcing FDs to rely on tax receipts for EMS get any traction.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Certain Fire Departments can bill for EMS services; specifically, just not volunteer Fire Departments. It depends on how the department was chartered an organized. Volunteer Fire Department ambulances are prohibited from billing for EMS transports by legislation.

I believe Saratoga FD is organized as a career Fire Department and would be able to bill for any level of EMS transport service they provide; ALS or BLS.

Not true. It has nothing to do with being volunteer or career (would that mean combo depts can only bill some of the time or only bill 1/2....NO) Fire Districts are not allowed to bill.

No legislation will pass barring all FDs froom billing EMS. In todays tax obsessed political environment no way would forcing FDs to rely on tax receipts for EMS get any traction.

Correct but the point I was making is that it has been illegal for 50+ years for special taxing districts (Water, sewer, light, fire) to bill. The legislation proposed is to allow Fire Districts to do that.

[SmokeEatter40 8]

Well, lots of information and feelings on both the FD and EMS theories for covering such the territory.

1 - A new EMS coverage.

a. Apparaently the current business is not able to mantain the demand of the area.

1. It would be no good for a name change (i.e. same lack of dependability just a new paint job.)

2. And what city/town/etc would approve a new band-aid

b. FD coverage - The city currently is not even meeting the regulaory requirements?

1. only making 50-90% of the responses?

2. below minimal staffing? 1 new employee when you really pracically need a new shift?

a. where are you pulling the current staff from to staff the rigs?

b. you are going to deplete fire coverage even more for EMS response?

3. new apparatus for the FD?

a. I agree get a new rig for the FD

1. even if this is a temporary result having the FD cover EMS, the FD will now have a reserve/replacement for the

existing rig.

2. or even a back up for FD coverage on scenes

c. Get a new company i there who has the staff and equiment to make the responses.

a. There is no way any company is going to walk in the door and making the financal goals the current agency is.

b. Apparently there is an agency which always has their Cert to work in the city limits? And one which doesnt?

1. How much profit can an agency make when they need to set-up:

a. Certifications

b. Rigs

c. Manpower/Overtime

Whatever the outcome I wish the FD and the city luck with covering the calls.

[firedude 985]

The begining stages of the changeover has gone well so far. It could be as early as tomorrow when the FD starts to transport.

Saratoga Springs City Council sets temporary EMS rates: New fire department service ready to roll today

SARATOGA SPRINGS — The Saratoga Springs Fire Department will be running its ambulance to emergency medical calls beginning at 8 a.m. today after the City Council approved temporary fees at a special meeting Thursday night, but not everyone on the council is happy about the department’s take-over of ambulance service.

Full Saratogian Article

[firedude 985]

Well its official... the SSFD began to transport patients to the hospital today. SEMS is still in business and still has their certificate and thus will be trasnporting patients when SSFD is busy. The EMS response to a medical call is now 1 Engine and 1 Ambulance. As of now, they only have 1 ambulance in service.

Spa City firefighters begin providing ambulance service

SARATOGA SPRINGS, N.Y. -- Barely 30 minutes into Friday's shift, Saratoga Springs firefighters put their ambulance to use.

Full YNN Article and Video

More details on the Saratoga Springs Fire Department's take-over of ambulance services

SARATOGA SPRINGS — The Fire Department is sending its ambulance out on emergency medical calls starting today, but there are still some questions out there regarding the details of the fire department’s take-over of the service.

Full Saratogain Article

Edited February 4, 2012 by firedude

[firedude 985]

As a final update, ambulance service is runing smoothly in Saratoga Springs. SSFD is providing transport service with 1 ambulance. Empire Ambulance was just awarded a contract to cover the city's additional calls. They will staff 2 BLS ambulances at SSFD Station 2. ALS will still be provided by SSFD. Any other calls will be handeled by surrounding volunteer agencies. The Town of Greenfield has yet to award any EMS Service. After SEMS ceased operations, all EMS calls were given to a volunteer ambulance service (Wilton EMS).

Photo Courtesy of The Saratogain

City Council in favor of drug-testing policy, awards secondary EMS contract

...The City Council also approved contracts with Empire Ambulance Service to handle back-up second and third emergency medical calls for the Saratoga Springs Fire Department, which took over ambulance service last month. Now, any time the fire department is unable to respond to an EMS call, Empire will respond instead.

Full Saratogian Article

Edited February 22, 2012 by firedude