Will Lowering the Age Increase Recruitment?

[firedude 985]

Will lowering the age to become an EMT or interior firefighter increase recruitment? As many of you know, Connecticut requires EMTs to be at least 16 years old. And from what I can tell, it works well from them. So is it time for New York (and others) to consider lowering the minimum age? Will it have any effect on the system? What are the Pros and Cons?

[FFPCogs 863]

Will lowering the age to become an EMT or interior firefighter increase recruitment? As many of you know, Connecticut requires EMTs to be at least 16 years old. And from what I can tell, it works well from them. So is it time for New York (and others) to consider lowering the minimum age? Will it have any effect on the system? What are the Pros and Cons?

16 year old EMTs has worked well in CT to the best of my knowledge and I see no reason why it wouldn't be so in NY as well . When it comes to firefighting on the other hand in CT 18 is them minimum age for FF I and II certifcation and thus interior operations. Now I joined at 16 in 1980 and went right to work so I really don't see age as a problem there so long as all the parental/legal permssions are in place. Unfortunaely the State Labor Board and OSHA see it dfferently and because of that I am now a advocate of 18 years as being the age to join a VFD in an active capacity. That said though I am a firm believer in Juniors or Cadet programs that are seperate, but complimentary for VFDs that keeps all training and activities of those under 18 within the legal framework while stll allowing tem to particpate.

Cogs

Edited December 3, 2011 by FFPCogs

[helicopper 1,050]

Will lowering the age to become an EMT or interior firefighter increase recruitment? As many of you know, Connecticut requires EMTs to be at least 16 years old. And from what I can tell, it works well from them. So is it time for New York (and others) to consider lowering the minimum age? Will it have any effect on the system? What are the Pros and Cons?

I don't think so. There are already youth, cadet, explorer, and junior programs for those under 18 so it isn't like they can't get into the services at an earlier age if they so desire.

I think 18 is about the right age for EMT and wouldn't advocate lowering the age for that. CFR is available at 16 so again, there's a progression for them if they get involved at that age.

Honestly I don't think the answer is in lowering ages. There are big problems in the emergency services (paid and volunteer) and no simple solutions.

[firegui 24]

Will lowering the age to become an EMT or interior firefighter increase recruitment? As many of you know, Connecticut requires EMTs to be at least 16 years old. And from what I can tell, it works well from them. So is it time for New York (and others) to consider lowering the minimum age? Will it have any effect on the system? What are the Pros and Cons?

We at Somers have and have had alot of great under 18 firefighters and ems only people. I believe they could be great emt's at 16 as they are fast learners and hard workers. The pride that flows from our under 18 people is immense i would say probably 50 percent judging from past practice stay local and become senior members. Most of them are firefighter 1 certified before they graduate high school. I am sure other departments have similar success. I know for a fact Yorktown F.D. does.

[NWFDMedic 58]

The only concern I have is the emotional state of a 16 year old. With so many services settling for a warm body with an EMT card, I'd be very concerned about allowing them to be "in-charge" at the scene of a serious call. At least in the fire service, you respond with several other members and officers who can help to shield those younger members from the potentially traumatic scenes.

On a good note though, I think that recruiting the 16 year olds is important, not only to our volunteer departments but to the future of the professions. If I hadn't had the hook baited, so to speak, at age 16, I don't think I would've ever considered fire or EMS after returning from college.

[firecapt32 282]

My first reaction to this was "no way" but on futher reflection I find myself saying "maybe" under certain circumstances.

first- there should be a "parent night" for all under 18 potential, so that parents find out what being a firefighter is all about and I dont mean just going to the station to hang out--I think when you tell them the reality of being a good firefighter, they might look at it a little differently. No matter how you slice it--there are still an average of 100 firefighters deaths every year and over 80,000 injuries. so they should know its not all fun and games. I think some times we sugar coat things for our recuitment.

Second-strict policies on when they would be allowed in the station. ie no responses after 11 pm. on school nights. No leaving school for alarms. No failing grades in school. Things like that.

you get my concerns-- Young citizens can learn a lot of respopnsibilites from the fire service so if you do this you have to do it right.

[Cos Cob 215 7]

Agreed, explorer programs are great! Get as much training in as possible so that when the big birthday comes they are knowledgeable about many of the topics that are brought up in FF I and other courses. Our explorer program was started about a year and a half ago and has already "graduated" 2 new members.

[JJB531 652]

I agree with NWFD's line of thought on this topic. I think exposing individuals to the emergency service fields from a young age is extremely beneficial. Speaking personally, I started volunteering with my town's Ambulance Youth Corps at 14 years old, receiving training in basic first aid and CPR. By 15 I was made a dispatcher (thanks RWC130), receiving calls for service from the Police Department and communicating with the ambulances, and became familiar with radio operations and etiquette. At 16 I had completed the New York State First Responder course (thanks Helicopper) and was riding as an attendant with senior members. By the time I was 18, I was fairly comfortable "tech-ing" calls myself and after a few months was made a crew chief, being able to run calls on my own.

I think if it wasn't for the benefits and experience I obtained from such a young age I wouldn't be where I am today in emergency services. The benefits are obvious. Learning all of the equipment used by EMT's, learning how the EMS system operates, becoming familiar with emergency service terminology, learning how to use the radios and proper radio etiquette, learning how to work as a team, being exposed to different types of medical emergencies and "trauma jobs", learning effective communication with patients, family members, hospital staff, and other emergency services personnel, etc. are all of the great benefits to starting from such a young age. If the exposure and experience is positive and done properly, it builds an excellent, solid foundation for future EMT's, Paramedics, and Firefighters. The amount of success to these programs relies on not just the young individuals, but probably relies more heavily on the mentors, the senior EMT's and Firefighters who intend to teach new members the in's and out's of emergency services. If impressionable younger members of emergency services start off with poor exposure, poor training, and poor mentoring, then you are committing them to fail miserably.

But, as NWFD pointed out, the level of maturity and life experience of a 16 year old is not enough to run calls on their own and act as the sole responsible medical provider or firefighter. This age should be an "age of grooming", so by the time an individual reaches the age of 18, they have hopefully a good solid 2 years of experience to prepare them to run calls on their own and either begin to pursue a career or continue to volunteer as a solid, well prepared, professional member of their agency.

[sueg 77]

CT allows 16 year olds to be certified EMTs, and they can be considered crew, but they cannot take care of a patient by themselves without another 18-or-above EMT with them, and cannot ride in back alone with the patient until they are 18 - try to explain to an under-18 MVA patient why they have to be transported if not adult there to take custody of them, but your EMT is 16 and can take care of you by himself- not happening. Has led to those "gray area" periods where Juniors full responders but not really. The training they receive during this period does make them better EMS people later. Our Junior member policy does not allow Juniors in the building without a "senior" member, they cannot run machinery per OSHA and child labor laws, and are not supposed to do laddering, but supervised can do training with everything to some degree. And the Junior firemen are a tremendous and eager source of help as they learn.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I wouldn't advocate lowering the age for Interior Firefighter, but if NY doesn't allow EMTs at 16 I think you're missing out. As many have mentioned it gets people involved and develops their skill sets early in a well supervised setting as opposed to finishing EMT school and throwing them into the breach. Its basically a 2 year FTO program to develop good habits.

I'm ALWAYS an advocate for quality Explorer/Cadet/Junior programs in Fire, EMS and law enforcement to help cultivate membership and to pre-train members for FF1. In Wallingford our Explorer program teaches right out of the Firefighter 1 book so that when they do turn 18 and begin the actual course, they have a leg up already. We would really like the state to have a program in place where when the member turns 18 we can submit the training they have already received and allow them to do their laddering, live burn and the other skills we can't currently train with, then be able to "challenge" the test (much like out-of-state certified FFs have to in CT) and obtain their certification. Obviously there's a lot of legalese and logistics involved with something like that, but it would be nice.

[Chief21 8]

I agree with Helicopper:

If the members want to get involved at 16 (That is wonderful!!!).

There are pleanty of classes available to them to get their feet wet before getting thrown to the wolves.

CFR being the medical aspect involved in this topic. Let the kid take CFR and set him up with an EMT Mentor for two years to get the policies and practices down.

What is the liability of sending your rig out with a 16 y/o EMT and a driver to a daytime call that could range from a stubbed toe to a sever cardiac arrest.

We dont want to over do it with these young people. They do have a lot of potential and I feel they will be more susseptable to advance and be a long term member if they arent overwelmed physically and/or emotionally.

So I guess what I am saying is truthfully what are we gaining by lowwering the age to 16? It takes a good four months for the class/ two months in house training, so maybe a year earlier getting them in the field?

Be safe

[Boss159 7]

Somewhat related to this topic, I have noticed a more than usual 'lack of knowledge' in new and newish EMT's, I am not really sure if it is due to the lack of understanding due to the cultural changes in society, or the 'dumbing down' of these programs to the basic minimum to pass the tests, I know the saying goes class is just the beginning the real training happens on the street, but it seems that it's worse than it's ever been.

[NWFDMedic 58]

So I guess what I am saying is truthfully what are we gaining by lowwering the age to 16? It takes a good four months for the class/ two months in house training, so maybe a year earlier getting them in the field?

If they lowered the age for EMT to 16, that would mean that they would have had to achieved their 16th birthday before the test date, not before enrolling in the class. Theoretically today, you can take an EMT test on your 18th birthday.

[helicopper 1,050]

Here's an interesting question on the subject...

If you're under 18 years of age you can't legally RMA, right? So can a 16 year old legally accept an RMA?

Seriously, how can a 16 year old serve as the "guardian" (for lack of a better word) for another juvenile involved in a motor vehicle accident?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Here's an interesting question on the subject...

If you're under 18 years of age you can't legally RMA, right? So can a 16 year old legally accept an RMA?

Seriously, how can a 16 year old serve as the "guardian" (for lack of a better word) for another juvenile involved in a motor vehicle accident?

It is my understanding that they cannot. 16 year old EMTs must be supervised by one who is over 18.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

It is my understanding that they cannot. 16 year old EMTs must be supervised by one who is over 18.

So then it may increase recruitment if this were the case...but not improve numbers for staffing.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I've been thinking this over the past few days and here are my issues. For one even at 18 most people haven't fully developed their life skills. There are a ton of life skills that you must have or have some basis for that will develop while in the emergency services field. I just don't think that the 16 year old age up to 18 that someone has the full mature level to deal with situations that can and more then likely arise. I know I wouldn't want a 16 year old's head between the legs of my signficant other during child birth or undressing a trauma patient. I'm not stereotyping but lets face it..most just learned how to drive. I enter the marine corps at 17 and turned 18 while in boot camp. Different scenario because its well controlled but I saw out of boot camp in schooling and the fleet of the pitfalls of some who didn't have good life skills and the trouble that it in turn became.

Now with that said as an instructor I've seen both sides of the 16 year old in classes. I've had some who could climb over any wall and were some of that best students I've had...and there's more that I wanted to put through a wall then the latter I mentioned. And the majority of it simply came down to maturity. I know of some decent youth programs that they are allowed to ride during calls...it gives them just enough to do to make them feel part of it without having to (not always necessarily) worry about their lack of life and maturity skills. That doesn't go without saying that there aren't times that I or my colleagues haven't had to speak up because some have no bounds or filters with their mouths. If your truly looking at lowering ages to increase recruitment....you have much bigger problems that need to be addressed. The military has recruitment problems at times...but they don't lower their requirements to take 16 year olds.