Lay-offs of Emergency Personnel

[TheNewLadder32 49]

Hey guys and girls I just have a question for all as we know the economy is bad and that lay off's are taking place which is very sad but my question is why does it seem like it's always the Fire Department getting targeted for lay off's and closure's. Now im not saying anyone should be laid off but I never hear anything in the news about police getting laid off or losing there jobs up here I have heard about it across the country. Is it that staffing rigs, equipment, and keeping trucks in service the problem ? I'd just like to know why it's always the Fire Deparment getting hit and not usually police .... and as I said I dont want anyone Police, Fire, or EMS to lose their jobs because we need them and there very valuable to us. Thanks for your time and thanks for the responses.

[helicopper 1,050]

Hey guys and girls I just have a question for all as we know the economy is bad and that lay off's are taking place which is very sad but my question is why does it seem like it's always the Fire Department getting targeted for lay off's and closure's. Now im not saying anyone should be laid off but I never hear anything in the news about police getting laid off or losing there jobs up here I have heard about it across the country. Is it that staffing rigs, equipment, and keeping trucks in service the problem ? I'd just like to know why it's always the Fire Deparment getting hit and not usually police .... and as I said I dont want anyone Police, Fire, or EMS to lose their jobs because we need them and there very valuable to us. Thanks for your time and thanks for the responses.

Are you kidding? You must not be listening.

WASHINGTON – By year's end, nearly 12,000 police officers will have lost their jobs, and 30,000 positions in county and municipal departments will go unfilled, both direct consequences of a faltering economy that has forced deep cuts in local government budgets.

Link to Full Article (USA Today)

All have either laid off, are threatening to lay off, eliminated open lines (cut positions) , or are considering layoffs:

Atlantic City, NJ

Camden, NJ

Newark, NJ

Paterson, NJ

Trenton, NJ

North Castle, NY

Newburgh, NY

Nassau County PD, NY

Rockland County Sheriff, NY

Orange County Sheriff, NY

Westchester County PD, NY

Yonkers PD, NY

Saratoga Springs, NY

Niagra Frontier Transit Authority PD, NY

Orchard Park, NY

These are just NY and NJ. I didn't even delve into CT. In other parts of the country it has even been worse!

DOJ Report - Impact of Economic Downturn on Police Agencies.pdf

[x129K 1,393]

Look at Camden, NJ...they laid off 1/3 of thier firefighters...and ONE HALF of thier cops!

Camden has enough work for both agencies to HIRE those numbers in addition to what they had!

It's NOT just firemen...the Brothers in Blue are taking a hurting with DEEP cuts as well.

[JJB531 652]

Another factor is that there is typically higher turnover in police departments, with more annual retirements as compared to most fire departments in this area. These vacancies are simply not filled, leading to a "natural" decline in the size of the department. NYSP has not had a recruit class in several years, NYPD recruit classes have been minimal in size and barely make a dent in replacing the numbers of police officers retiring each year. Many local police agencies are at their lowest manning in recent history, with no signs of improvement in the near future, and ever since 9/11 with counterterrorism duties now an added responsibility for local law enforcement, the old adage "do more with less" is straining law enforcement agencies ability to continue to protect the public, yet the job still gets done.

The decreasing size of departments through attrition leads to overall reductions of manpower within the ranks of the department as well (i.e. decreased uniform promotions, decreased manpower in specialized units and details, etc.)

Fire departments are obviously not immune to the state of the economy, and face a lot of the same issues police departments do with the factors previously mentioned.

[tglass59 27]

Are you kidding? You must not be listening.

Link to Full Article (USA Today)

All have either laid off, are threatening to lay off, eliminated open lines (cut positions) , or are considering layoffs:

Atlantic City, NJ

Camden, NJ

Newark, NJ

Paterson, NJ

Trenton, NJ

North Castle, NY

Newburgh, NY

Nassau County PD, NY

Rockland County Sheriff, NY

Orange County Sheriff, NY

Westchester County PD, NY

Yonkers PD, NY

Saratoga Springs, NY

Niagra Frontier Transit Authority PD, NY

Orchard Park, NY

These are just NY and NJ. I didn't even delve into CT. In other parts of the country it has even been worse!

WHITE PLAINS, NY

[TheNewLadder32 49]

Thanks guys for the posts/responses and now i really do see and thank you helicopper for the link. Also as I said i havent really heard so I havent really turned on the news lately but maybe I should more . Thanks again guys

[FireMedic049 597]

I'd just like to know why it's always the Fire Deparment getting hit and not usually police ....

The simple answer is this....

Most people are more concerned about being a victim of crime than a victim of a fire. As such, the layoff of police officers will typically generate more public dissent than the layoff of firefighters. Politicians know this quite well. Add in the fact that on a per incident basis, the PD is typically much busier than the FD along with the common misconception that firefighters just sit around the station sleeping and watching TV between calls and you have a much politically easier target to cut.

[Hazmatguy 5]

There was lots of "temporary" funding in departments throughout the Nation that just ran out thus the cuts. It's a simple fact of economics and a failure to budget to sustain staffing. Police and Fire Departments need to really think about "what they really need" and adjust to this new economic reality. Salaries and benefits are going to be cut down the road though these public service jobs will still offer good opportunities. It's a new world......

[Bnechis 3,961]

There was lots of "temporary" funding in departments throughout the Nation that just ran out thus the cuts.

Can you describe this "Temporary" funding? Most communities that have been laying off are dropping to levels that they have not seen in 50 years. that does not sound very temporary.

It's a simple fact of economics and a failure to budget to sustain staffing.

When NYS changed the rules last year and said "Tax Cap" then increased the unfunded mandates above the level of the tax cap how can a local government properly budget.

Police and Fire Departments need to really think about "what they really need" and adjust to this new economic reality.

When our City Council agreed on how many fireifghters, police and EMS we would need in the Envirnomental impact statements to build a number of new developments (including 40 story buildings) Thats what we "really need". The number and type of incidents does not care about our "new economic reality". What we really need is the proper number of staff to handle the call volume. Here is an economic reality, every time the politicians have cut staffing (and not just in my city) the injury rate goes up. And the municipality gets to pay for it. Currently we pay well over a $ million for a force that is never coming to work and we will pay for them till they are at least 62 years old. Your "new economic reality" is do more with less, but actually spend more money for reduced services.

Both the FEDS & Univ. of RI have great studies on this. URI's showed that 3 man engine companies cost more than 4 man, because of the injury rate.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Are you kidding? You must not be listening.

Link to Full Article (USA Today)

All have either laid off, are threatening to lay off, eliminated open lines (cut positions) , or are considering layoffs:

Atlantic City, NJ

Camden, NJ

Newark, NJ

Paterson, NJ

Trenton, NJ

North Castle, NY

Newburgh, NY

Nassau County PD, NY

Rockland County Sheriff, NY

Orange County Sheriff, NY

Westchester County PD, NY

Yonkers PD, NY

Saratoga Springs, NY

Niagra Frontier Transit Authority PD, NY

Orchard Park, NY

These are just NY and NJ. I didn't even delve into CT. In other parts of the country it has even been worse!

In CT the only ones of size that I've seen in the media have been:

CT State Police

New Haven, CT Police

[nfd2004 750]

In Connecticut, so far most places have been very lucky in the fact that they haven't seen the cuts like in New York State. However, many cities made many cuts over the years and have trimmed their depts to the point that ANY working fire now requires mutual aid, there by taking fire companies away from their respective towns and cities. It is now the norm, rather than the exception.

Politicians like to make funding available while they are in office to make themselves look good. When they leave, that funding disappears. Such is an example of where several police patrols were added in my own city. When the politician left to seek a higher office, they often explained how they INCREASED Service, crime was reduced etc. What they didn't tell the people was that the funding for that program would eventually dry up after cutting it 25 % per year. As a result, those Community Police Officers that were used for ones Political Future, does NOT exist as I write this. And we're back to the crime the way it was before.

And as was mentioned earlier, we should expect to see cuts due to the economy these days. Don't put the blame on the people who get paid to risk their life and who help us every single day of the year. Put the blame where it belongs. The Politicians that gave away money on Pipedream projects for the advancement of their own political future. And as a reminder, every contract that is signed by the city for police, fire, etc, MUST Be Approved by ALL Parties.

With that said, for me it doesn't matter if a cop sits at a coffee shop all day long, or a firefighter plays games in the firehouse every day of the year. But when I call that well known "911" phone number, "they better be ready to perform".

Edited December 2, 2011 by nfd2004

[CTFF 65]

While layoffs make the news we need to keep in mind many cities are not filling positions when guys are leaving the job.

[Hazmatguy 5]

There was post 9/11 funding as well as initiatives under Clinton and Bush to increase staffing in emergency services..... funds that were "temporary" or "one time" and thus not available long term.......... And let's be honest..... individual departments that spend money on "toys" yet have inadequate resources for their day to day operations...... tankers, thermal imagers, etc. should be priorities...... not half the crap you see money spent on...... Volunteer departments should be County resources and not Town resources...... costs are out of control....... response times for volunteer fire departments are poor due to the nature of the beast...... property "rescue" is limited and thus there needs to be a better way...... we can all congratulate each other after a major fire but if nothing is left, what was the purpose..... priorities have to be directed toward a quick response and rescue..... putting out the "fire" is really less important since there is normally little left to "save" and rebuild...... everyone in a fire department should be capable of self critique and acknowledge where we could be more efficient..... anything that you purchase will need maintenance, repair and replacement..... this is often forgotten.......

Edited December 2, 2011 by Hazmatguy