Westchester VAC's With Paid EMT Coverage?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

It all boils down to labels being using to loosely. VAC should be reserved for agency that are 100% volunteer 24/7 and do not bill or collect insurance money for transports. These are places that are Volunteer AC's Tradition plays a huge role in emergency services so changing names is not a popular switch.

Not really. It all depends on what you actually are. If you are a fire district you are precluded from charging for any service. If you are a private corporation, as most of the VACs are, whole different ballgame.

I was thinking of the triad response we have in Eastchester and the villages, and how the, 3 PD's, 1 FD, and the VAC/EMS/Medic have worked well together for a long time.

Could be used as a model of cooperation in SOME places; of course some of our upstate Brothers who've traditionally provided both ALS and BLS transport have had to compete with the likes of Rural Metro through the years; and that too my friend is a whole different ballgame.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

It all boils down to labels being using to loosely. VAC should be reserved for agency that are 100% volunteer 24/7 and do not bill or collect insurance money for transports. These are places that are Volunteer AC's Tradition plays a huge role in emergency services so changing names is not a popular switch.

Actually I will take a different spin to this all together...and for the record I find it funny that many still do retain "V.A.C." even thought the scale has tilted that volunteers supplement the system as they are mostly paid.

1. I can go out and do what is necessary to start a corporation tomorrow with one ambulance and if I want I can put V.A.C. in the name. There are far more issues much more pressing then having VAC in a name whether fully volunteer or all paid.

2. What does billing have to do with anything in regard to again having the name V.A.C.? If the collected money goes to operational expenses and not to any volunteer member towards salary...I don't get your point.

And yes...for those of you that know me...I have another point...and I'm waiting for the comments to make it. All I'm going to say is...look at the big picture of your comments. I'm interested to see what the counter comments to mine are...and if anyone can figure out where I'm going next with this.

[helicopper 1,050]

It all boils down to labels being using to loosely. VAC should be reserved for agency that are 100% volunteer 24/7 and do not bill or collect insurance money for transports. These are places that are Volunteer AC's Tradition plays a huge role in emergency services so changing names is not a popular switch.

What does "volunteer" have to do with billing for services rendered? I think calling an agency volunteer when it doesn't pay employees is appropriate but billing for service is a valid mechanism of recouping operating expenses from the user and not the community. I think that is an effective tool and shouldn't be dismissed simply because the crews don't receive a paycheck.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Not really. It all depends on what you actually are. If you are a fire district you are precluded from charging for any service. If you are a private corporation, as most of the VACs are, whole different ballgame.

I was thinking of the triad response we have in Eastchester and the villages, and how the, 3 PD's, 1 FD, and the VAC/EMS/Medic have worked well together for a long time.

Could be used as a model of cooperation in SOME places; of course some of our upstate Brothers who've traditionally provided both ALS and BLS transport have had to compete with the likes of Rural Metro through the years; and that too my friend is a whole different ballgame.

Actually I will take a different spin to this all together...and for the record I find it funny that many still do retain "V.A.C." even thought the scale has tilted that volunteers supplement the system as they are mostly paid.

1. I can go out and do what is necessary to start a corporation tomorrow with one ambulance and if I want I can put V.A.C. in the name. There are far more issues much more pressing then having VAC in a name whether fully volunteer or all paid.

2. What does billing have to do with anything in regard to again having the name V.A.C.? If the collected money goes to operational expenses and not to any volunteer member towards salary...I don't get your point.

And yes...for those of you that know me...I have another point...and I'm waiting for the comments to make it. All I'm going to say is...look at the big picture of your comments. I'm interested to see what the counter comments to mine are...and if anyone can figure out where I'm going next with this.

What does "volunteer" have to do with billing for services rendered? I think calling an agency volunteer when it doesn't pay employees is appropriate but billing for service is a valid mechanism of recouping operating expenses from the user and not the community. I think that is an effective tool and shouldn't be dismissed simply because the crews don't receive a paycheck.

To clear up confusion before this turns into the very popular game of how many people can post asking the same questions, I will reword and further explain my opinion and point to clear up confusion.

Billing to cover expenses for calls is not an issue is not related to the term VAC. I was referring to billing for pay or salary. Sorry for not going into detail...

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

VAC - Paid personell??? That makes no sense....

wHAT MAKES LESS SENSE. IS THE FACT THAT HALF THE CALLS, IF NOT MORE ,PEOPLE COULD DRIVE THEMSELVES TO THE HOSPITAL. THAT.... IS WHAT MAKES NO SENSE.

[newsbuff 286]

wHAT MAKES LESS SENSE. IS THE FACT THAT HALF THE CALLS, IF NOT MORE ,PEOPLE COULD DRIVE THEMSELVES TO THE HOSPITAL. THAT.... IS WHAT MAKES NO SENSE.

Thanks for the valuable input....and the caps lock is not necessary.

Whether they could drive themselves to the hospital or not, they still called, so we have to show up. Until they stop calling, we still have to go.

[x129K 1,393]

wHAT MAKES LESS SENSE. IS THE FACT THAT HALF THE CALLS, IF NOT MORE ,PEOPLE COULD DRIVE THEMSELVES TO THE HOSPITAL. THAT.... IS WHAT MAKES NO SENSE.

baby steps Chief.....baby steps! LOL

[Guest alsfirefighter]

To clear up confusion before this turns into the very popular game of how many people can post asking the same questions, I will reword and further explain my opinion and point to clear up confusion.

Billing to cover expenses for calls is not an issue is not related to the term VAC. I was referring to billing for pay or salary. Sorry for not going into detail...

OK. But again if that's what the incorporated name of the agency is...so be it. People really don't care what is in your name...as long as you show up. If you didn't clarify your point I was going to based on your original post about billing and receiving funds say that there shouldn't be a single fire department that has volunteer in their name being they receive taxpayer funding. Its all relative one way or the other.

And as said...whether they can drive themselves to the hospital or not is a mute point. If that's a high percentage problem then you need to look at your public education program and stop thinking the public thinks like you do.

[EMSer 15]

2. What does billing have to do with anything in regard to again having the name V.A.C.? If the collected money goes to operational expenses and not to any volunteer member towards salary...I don't get your point.

not entire true als. they reimbursed money at "X" VAC is indeed collected for salaries. the money is accrued to a "rainy day" fund. the fund is for when there are no volunteers left and they must people their staff, i.e. vollies turn paid. it's already known that members will have first dibs at becoming paid employees of the corps, allowing that money to be paid to the vollies in a sneaky way. i think vollies that collect insurance money and taxes, as well as doing "boot drops" and mailer donations throughout the year are exploiting theit tax base. either accept the taxes or accept the insurance money. doing both is greedy and unethical - especially when the installation and holiday dinners total over $15,000. plus member allowances, pensions and other pricey perks.

i know i got off topic, but i'm ashamed to be formerly associated with such a money greedy "volunteer" agency. they don't serve their community. they serve themselves first, community second.

[FFEMT150 214]

not entire true als. they reimbursed money at "X" VAC is indeed collected for salaries. the money is accrued to a "rainy day" fund. the fund is for when there are no volunteers left and they must people their staff, i.e. vollies turn paid. it's already known that members will have first dibs at becoming paid employees of the corps, allowing that money to be paid to the vollies in a sneaky way. i think vollies that collect insurance money and taxes, as well as doing "boot drops" and mailer donations throughout the year are exploiting theit tax base. either accept the taxes or accept the insurance money. doing both is greedy and unethical - especially when the installation and holiday dinners total over $15,000. plus member allowances, pensions and other pricey perks.

i know i got off topic, but i'm ashamed to be formerly associated with such a money greedy "volunteer" agency. they don't serve their community. they serve themselves first, community second.

I could have sworn the money paid for fuel, equipment and training... At least thats where it went when I was an officer. Why would you say that collecting tax money and billing insurance is greedy and unethical? What "member allowences" are you speaking of? What "pension" is my VAC paying me? Sorry if I seem to be digging into you but these are some pretty strong alligations and I respectfully ask that you clarify.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What hurts our system is when we get called to Lockwood Avenue for the "sick", around the corner from Sound Shore, because TransCare was busy. I'm not saying that we never call mutual aid, because we do, but a paid service shouldn't be relying on ScarVac, or Eastchester, or TMAD..... (That's me ranting, and shouldn't be taken personally by anybody.)

Kevin, I dont take it personally, but you threw a shot across our bow...so I must.

It is not up to that "paid service" to cover more calls than the number of abulances the municipalitis leadership is willing to contract for.

There was a time when the city only ran 1) 24 hour & 1) 16 hour bus and they contracted to cover Pelham as well. Slowly over time this improved. But we were stuck for a long time at 2) 24 hr (and no more Pelham). We were handing over a couple hundred calls to mutual aid each year and asked all of the VAC's we were "abusing" to document it and help us correct this. 1 said no, 1 said they liked it cause it helped them pay for the medic (but eventially did send a letter) and 1 after a couple of requests sent a letter.

We now have 2) 24 hr & 1) 12 hr. and the number of mutual aid requests dropped by 70%. And we now have the resources to go mutual aid out, in fact this week we covered calls in both Eastchester and Larchmont. And we provide them at an ALS level. thank you.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Bnechis

[FFEMT150 214]

New thread started for discussion... Sorry for the hijack Seth.

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=44191&view=getnewpost

Edited December 2, 2011 by FFEMT150

[EMSer 15]

I could have sworn the money paid for fuel, equipment and training... At least thats where it went when I was an officer. Why would you say that collecting tax money and billing insurance is greedy and unethical? What "member allowences" are you speaking of? What "pension" is my VAC paying me? Sorry if I seem to be digging into you but these are some pretty strong alligations and I respectfully ask that you clarify.

each member is allowed $200 for uniform attire OR omaha steakbucks...

why is it unethical and greedy? because if you can survive on billing insurance companies, then relieve the tax payers of the ems tax. especially when the agency can clearly afford $15,000 of parties.

the pension received at this agency allows $700 per year after 5 years of service.

most vacs don't have the money to piss away. this vac has plenty

[FFEMT150 214]

each member is allowed $200 for uniform attire OR omaha steakbucks...

why is it unethical and greedy? because if you can survive on billing insurance companies, then relieve the tax payers of the ems tax. especially when the agency can clearly afford $15,000 of parties.

the pension received at this agency allows $700 per year after 5 years of service.

most vacs don't have the money to piss away. this vac has plenty

Well this vac apparently has some issues

[sueg 77]

I seem to have forgotten what VAC's have paid daytime coverage, hours, and if applicable, what is their employing agency?

Thanks!

New Fairfield has paid daytime coverage Monday through Friday 6AM to 6PM, with a medic (on the ambulance those times) available 24/7, all from Danbury Hospital DHCA. Second ambulance call M-F staffed by volunteers; all volunteer crew other times. Daytime calls were getting harder to cover with work, etc., so NFVFD Board proactively researched and got this done before calls were dropped - did not wait and close the gate after horse left.

Clarification: NFVFD does Fire and EMS, is not a separate VAC

Edited December 2, 2011 by sueg

[peterose313 345]

Croton EMS has a paid EMT from Ossining EMS currently from 0700-1900, every day. Starting on 1/1/12 (I think) it will be 24/7.

Croton-on-Hudson opts for full-time EMT

[EMS92 30]

Becoming more and more common now being that it is hard to get a crew together and it is true volly depts relie on the old time members in hoping that they will come out. I think within a few years we are going to see more volly depts have at least one or two paid emts in their depts

[Guest alsfirefighter]

not entire true als. they reimbursed money at "X" VAC is indeed collected for salaries. the money is accrued to a "rainy day" fund. the fund is for when there are no volunteers left and they must people their staff, i.e. vollies turn paid. it's already known that members will have first dibs at becoming paid employees of the corps, allowing that money to be paid to the vollies in a sneaky way. i think vollies that collect insurance money and taxes, as well as doing "boot drops" and mailer donations throughout the year are exploiting theit tax base. either accept the taxes or accept the insurance money. doing both is greedy and unethical - especially when the installation and holiday dinners total over $15,000. plus member allowances, pensions and other pricey perks.

i know i got off topic, but i'm ashamed to be formerly associated with such a money greedy "volunteer" agency. they don't serve their community. they serve themselves first, community second.

I'd really like to understand what your trying to say here. But can you proofread this and make the appropriate corrections? No offense really but your grammar in that post is horrendous and I can't follow what your saying and I have some things to respond for what I can decipher but rather make sure I actually get your point before I do.

What I can say to what I can actually tell exactly what you mean...like a "rainy day" fund. Municipalities have funds like that so I have no issue with that particularly when you mention they have no staffing. As far as those volunteering getting first dibs at becoming paid employees...ok what's your point here? I know plenty of places that would give preference to those who know the system and the area, so what is so sneaky? And how can it be "sneaky" if its known.

I can't speak for you otherwise but again I really can't decipher what some of the things your attempting to say.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

each member is allowed $200 for uniform attire OR omaha steakbucks...

why is it unethical and greedy? because if you can survive on billing insurance companies, then relieve the tax payers of the ems tax. especially when the agency can clearly afford $15,000 of parties.

the pension received at this agency allows $700 per year after 5 years of service.

most vacs don't have the money to piss away. this vac has plenty

Love to know what LOSAP system they're utilizing.

[Monty 35]

Skimming through, I may have missed it, but I'm pretty sure Ossining VAC has paid staff (EMT and paramedic?) and doesn't Briarcliff have a daytime paid EMS worker?