Why? Funeral Protocol for active members

[Guest MahopacFF101]

I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion but after re-reading several of the comments I feel I have to. I believe that this thread is "Monday morning Quarterbacking" the actions of my department. This is not allowed for emergency calls and should not be allowed here

I am requesting this thread be closed. If anyone would like to discuss how we handled the funeral for our department President please feel free to stop by our fire headquarters at 741 Route 6.

Edward J Scott

Ex-Chief

Fire Commissioner

[everybodygoes 331]

So, do you think Lt Dibernardo deserves a LODD funeral? What about the dozens of firefighters that have died as a direct result of their work at the world trade center? How about a firefighter that survives the initial injuries only to succumb to an infection weeks or months later?

Do the cause of the death make a difference? What if it was being struck by a car while getting the meal, getting trapped while trying make that last push to save a civilian, or contracting a disease on an EMS run?

Do we draw the line at the source of ailment that kills someone? Does the obese freighter that dies from an MI while climbing the steps to the bunk room deserve the same send off as the guy who's MI was caused by vasospasm from smoke inhalation?

There are so many variables and so many places that once you start drawing concrete lines you wind up excluding people that shouldn't be. Personal I'd rather see too many get that hookie than not enough. As others have said the difference between a Line of Duty and regular funeral is palpable to anyone who has witnessed one.

Yes they all do deserve a LODD Funeral. You want to talk to someone who has experienced each one of those instances you can call the following people:

Joe D's dad Deputy Chief DiBernardo

The following people for the deaths they sustained from the direct work they did at the WTC;

Adrian, Sandra - NYPD

Albanese, Vincent - FDNY

Alexander, Robert – National Guard

Allen, George - OSHA

Arrington, Gerald - FDNY

Baez, Alex - NYPD

Bales, Theodore – Trade

Bellan, Robert - Trade

Benditt, Richard M. - FD PHILADELPHIA

Berger, Philip - FDNY

Biondi, John - EMT

Bolusi, Frank - NYPD

Borcherding, Robert - FDNY

Borg, Jerry - Civilian

Borgese, Andrew - FDNY

Borja, Caesar - NYPD

Brand, Dave - Trade

Brinkworth, Russell - FDNY

Brophy, Thomas - NYPD

Brown, Carene - FDNY

Brown, Harry - Driver

Bulger, Ed - Trade

Burhman, Robert –Trade

Burke, Richard - FDNY

Byrnes, Kevin - FDNY

Capo, Patrice - Volunteer

Capobianco, Carl - FDNY

Carlo, Madeline - NYPD

Cassidy, Kevin - FDNY

Celentani, Gary - FDNY

Chelsen, Roy - FDNY

Clark, Charles - NYPD

Cleary, Haydee - Volunteer

Clyde, John - Trade

Cole, Charles –NCPD/ESU

Colleluori, Joseph - FDNY

Conroy, Daniel – NYPD

Cordaro, Vincent - Trade

Cortazzo, John - PAPD

Costello, Joseph - FDNY

Czartoryski, Kevin - NYPD

Daley, Joan - FDNY

DeBiase, Mark - Trade

Delano Sr, Kevin - FDNY

Devilla, Rene - Trade

Diaz, Cory - NYPD

Didomenico, Rudy - EMS

Dillon, Robert - FDNY

Doyle, James - Transit

Driscoll, Tom - FDNY

Dudziec, James - NYPD

Duffy, John – Transit

Dunbar, Renee - NYPD

Dunn-Jones, Felicia - Civilian

Ehmer, Robert - NYPD

Ellicot, Brain - FDNY

Faraone, Heather – Volunteer

Farcia , John - FDNY

Ferraro, Edward - NYPD

Farrenkopf, Peter - FDNY

Feser, Donald - NYPD

Fisher, Elmis - NYPD

Ford, Robert - FDNY

Foss, Bruce - FDNY

Franklin, William – FDNY

Galfano, Barry – NYPD/ESU

Garcia, John - FDNY

Ghussin, Fred - NYPD

Gilpin, Edward - NYPD

Godbee, James - NYPD

Goggin, John - NYPD

Graves, Harry - Vol Firefighter

Grossman, Robert - NYPD

Gyuris, Louis - Trade

Hanrahan, Claire - NYPD

Harris, Bill - Firefighter

Hauber, Ray - FDNY

Hawe, Jerry - FDNY

Hawkins, Kevin -NYPD

Hayes, Philip - FDNY

Helmke, Robert - NYPD

Hendrickson, Erik - Firefighter

Hernandez, Felix - FDNY/EMT

Hess, Robert - FDNY

Hodges, Thomas - FDNY

Holfester, William - NYPD

Hurly, Martin - FDNY

Iacono, Giovanni - NYPD

Incarbone, Anthony - FDNY

Jakopii, Jure - NYPD

Jakubowsky, Richard - NYPD

Johannemann, Kevin - Civilian

Johnson, Leroy - DOT

Johnson, Stephen - FDNY

Johnson, Vanclive - FDNY

Johnston, Louise - NYPD

Jones, James - Volunteer

Kaplan, Michael -Trade

Kavakos, Gary - FDNY

Kaye, James - FDNY

Keller, Tim - FDNY/EMT

Kelly, Ronald – NYPD

Kendrick, Michael - Trade

Knecht, David - Trade

Landolfi, Joseph - Sanitation

Larosa, Mike - FDNY

Lee, Kevin - NYPD

Levy, Gavriel - DOT

Lockwood, Timothy - FDNY

Lopez, Alex - FDNY

Macari, Frank - NYPD

Macchio, Andrew - Sanitation

Mahoney, Sister Mary - Civilian

Mahmoud, David - NYPD

Malloy, Brian - FDNY

Mannetta, Richard - FDNY

Martin, Tom - NYPD

Marx, Larry - Trade

Mauro, Vito - NYPD

Mausberg, Gary - NYPD

Marzocchi, William - Trade

McAllan, Richard - EMS

McCaffery, Thomas -Trade

McCarthy, Jackie - NYPD

McCarthy, Jessy, Trade

McCarthy, Sean - FDNY

McCauley, Brian- NYS Fire Patrol

McCormick, Ryan -EMS

McLoughin, Kevin – FDNY

McMurry, Christopher - NYPD

McNamara, John - FDNY

Milosevich, Chad - Trade

Mitchell, Darren, - Trade

Mohamed, Brian – NYPD

Morales, Michael - NYPD

Moreau, William - FDNY

Mosiello, Steven – FDNY

Murray, John - FDNY

Natal, Reinaldo - FDNY

Navarra, Vic - FDNY

Nicosia, Robert - NYPD

Nuccio, Anthony - FDNY

O’Connor, William - FDNY

O’Neill, John – FDNY

Ortiz, Edwin - NYPD

Oswain, Robert - NYPD

Ott, Patrice - NYPD

Otten, Dick - FDNY

Pallas, Paul - PAPD

Paultre, Jacques - FDNY

Pearson, Brendon - EMS

Pennington, Glenford - NYPD

Peluso, Angelo - NYPD

Phillips, Samuel - Trade

Picurro, Joe - Ironworker

Quibell, Greg - NYS Corrections

Quick, Billy - FDNY

Ragucci, Ray - FDNY

Rasmussen, Edward - Trade

Reeve, Deborah - FDNY/EMT

Reilly Jr, Edward - FDNY

Reilly, Robert - Engineer

Rex, Gerald - NYPD

Rice, Robert- NYPD

Rivera, Roberto - NYPD

Roberts, Thomas - FDNY

Rodriguez, Paula - FDNY/EMT

Rogers, Kevin - Trade

Rooney, Philip - NYC DOT

Roberto, Charles - Trade

Rosario, Freddie – FDNY/EMT

Ryan, James - FDNY

Ryan, Michael - NYPD

Sanders, Etta - Media

Sanders, John - Trade

Santimarian, Anthony - Trade

Seabrook, Joseph – NYPD

Sealey, Clyde - FDNY

Schor, Robert - NYC Corrections

Shagi, Michael - FDNY

Simmons, John - Trade

Simmons, Martin - FDNY

Smith, Bobby - Trade

Smith, Harold - NYPD

Smith, Stephen - NYPD

Snadecky, Mark - Bridge & Tunnels

Sofia, Michael - FDNY

Sollazo, Michael - Trade

Stadelmann, John - NYPD

Stuck, Fredrick - Sheriff

Stewart, Daniel - FDNY

Sullivan Jr, John - FDNY

St. George, William - FDNY

Tancredi II, Jimmy - FDNY

Teague, David - Trade

Thomas, Jevon - Trade

Thompson, Edward - NYPD

Tietjen, Edward - FDNY

Tropea, William - FDNY

Vatter, Paul - EMT

Vaughan, John - FDNY

Viania, Bruce - PAPD

Vidro, Christopher - Security

Voight, Walter - FDNY

Wanamaker Jr, Harry - FDNY

Weiber, Robert - FDNY

Weintraub, Ronald - NYPD

Wiebicke, Randy - FDNY

Williamson, Robert – NYPD

Wilson Jr, William - FDNY

Winter, Richard - NYPD

Wong, George - NYPD

Yorganson, Matthew - Trade

Young, John - NYPD

Yurek, Stephen - PAPD/EMT

Zadroga, James - NYPD

Zane, Robert - NYPD

And if you want to go local if you don't know any of those people I can arrange for you to meet with some of the local widows.

For the rest I would have to dig deeper than what I deal with on a daily basis.

A guy who gets killed at home should not get the same treatment as a guy or girl who was killed at work doing their job, bottom line.

[Healz 30]

Thank you all for opinions. While I did not mean to be abrasive, I wanted to make a point here.

If the average expected life span of an American is 78.3. Then anytime a member under that age dies from (MVA, Drowning, Household accident, Cancer, Heart, Food poisoning, ETC) then they are entitled to a LODD funeral with full honors and multiple FDs like Mahopac VFD gave.  I would image that budgets and the precious time that volunteers give would soon be strained to the point of breaking. Volunteers complain about the amount of time training takes now, add another 5-6 hours a month for funeral detail. After all they are many more volunteers then paid. (As pointed out in another post)

During my time I have seen many nice, wonderful, great guys die before their time and did not get a LODD funeral. The FD if involved line up at the wake to pay tribute. Maybe sent an engine for flowers and lined up in front of station as the Hearst and family past. There are many FFs from paid FDs(including FDNY) that are members of Mahopac VFD that I am sure could have advised on them on protocol.

As for doing this for every member, time will tell. 25 or 60 year members we'll see, I believe time is on my side. As I don't live in the Mahopac fire district and as pointed out the public's opinion doesn't matter in this event.  The taxpayers may want to vote, with their opinions, in the future at the voting booth. Oh that is if the public ever can vote at the secret public fire district elections that take place during the month of December instead of during regular November elections. (but this is another matter)

Since this was not a LODD, I would hope that no taxpayer money was used for this funeral. If that is the case that full reimbursement from the Company for all District expenses is instituted.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Healz

[helicopper 1,050]

Please remember that many Mahopac members and EMTBravo members (past and present) are reading this thread. Consider their feelings when posting and be respectful.

Thank you.

Alright, everyone needs to settle down.

First of all, typing in all capital letters is considered shouting and is not appropriate etiquette for this forum. Future posts typed in all caps will simply be deleted.

This subject is an emotional one for affected members and it just happened so everyone needs to be sensititve to the fact that some fellow members lost a friend and colleague.

Regardless of whether or not you think the tribute paid was appropriate, please be respectful of your fellow firefighters and EMTBravo members.

Thank you.

[Dinosaur 844]

I've been to more then enough funerals but don't see your point about line of duty death funerals being so different.

What do you mean by that?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

And if you want to go local if you don't know any of those people I can arrange for you to meet with some of the local widows.

For the rest I would have to dig deeper than what I deal with on a daily basis.

A guy who gets killed at home should not get the same treatment as a guy or girl who was killed at work doing their job, bottom line.

Great copy and paste, but a ridiculous point when you say "call the following people". I'm getting really tired of you throwing peoples' names around. Have some respect that you claim to major in apparently. You've made your point about the Mahopac fireman. Obviously some agree, and some don't. DO NOT start throwing around deceased Brothers and Sisters names here. How dare you!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Great copy and paste, but a ridiculous point when you say "call the following people". I'm getting really tired of you throwing peoples' names around. Have some respect that you claim to major in apparently. You've made your point about the Mahopac fireman. Obviously some agree, and some don't. DO NOT start throwing around deceased Brothers and Sisters names here. How dare you!

If there is one thing that I KNOW about you friend, it is that brotherhood is above all else...with that in mind, I could not agree more.

Edited November 27, 2011 by SRS131EMTFF

[JetPhoto 626]

 The taxpayers may want to vote, with their opinions, in the future at the voting booth. Oh that is if the public ever can vote at the secret public fire district elections that take place during the month of December instead of during regular November elections. (but this is another matter)

Those elections are not secret, they are posted legal notices in your local papers as required by law that was set by the state, no different then school district elections who are required to post the same. The only difference is very few people care about fire district elections or fire district other voting.

So don't claim it's secret it's ignorance on the part of the resident! You want it changed then go see your state representatives! It's just like taxpayers complained and now they can voice concerns over district budgets, IF they bother to read the notices and actually get out and say something at the meetings.

[firefighter2711 12]

As for doing this for every member, time will tell. 25 or 60 year members we'll see, I believe time is on my side.

My father was a Mahopac Volunteer Firemen, he passed away from a non LODD injury, received the same honors(the flag in front of the firehouse for Purdy was added because of the surrounding departments wanting to help out and I believe because he was the head of the department.) Several members have passed away this year and some decided they did not want these honors. Again, the only reason no one has ever noticed anything is because it wasn't covered by the press. The department also helped give the same honors to FDNY members who have passed away from the area that were not LODD.

Like others have stated there is nothing like a LODD funeral. The atmosphere is a lot more somber, you have to park two towns away and take a shuttle just to get close because theres 5-10,000+ firemen who are there to honor a fallen brother they may or may not ever even met. Saluting for 15-20 mins as it takes the family to drive passed the sea of firemen, bag pipe band marching, dignitaries from all over speaking, a motorcade of chopper cops 4 wide 25 deep, flags all over the place. I've frozen my butt off on Staten Island, and Wooster Mass, Ive sizzled my egg rolls in long island, and been drenched right here in Putnam county under the pouring rain. The Purdy Funeral of a 5 min procession passed 200 firemen (who all new him) underneath a flag was a very nice tribute. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and unfortunately its hard to please everyone especially in the fire service. How about we kill this issue since its not going to change the way they operate. Everyone can take what we've discussed and bring it back to their own departments. And however any department decides to choose to honor their dead is good enough for me. But, lets stop beating a dead horse.

[FFEMT150 214]

Thank you all for opinions. While I did not mean to be abrasive, I wanted to make a point here.

If the average expected life span of an American is 78.3. Then anytime a member under that age dies from (MVA, Drowning, Household accident, Cancer, Heart, Food poisoning, ETC) then they are entitled to a LODD funeral with full honors and multiple FDs like Mahopac VFD gave.  I would image that budgets and the precious time that volunteers give would soon be strained to the point of breaking. Volunteers complain about the amount of time training takes now, add another 5-6 hours a month for funeral detail. After all they are many more volunteers then paid. (As pointed out in another post)

During my time I have seen many nice, wonderful, great guys die before their time and did not get a LODD funeral. The FD if involved line up at the wake to pay tribute. Maybe sent an engine for flowers and lined up in front of station as the Hearst and family past. There are many FFs from paid FDs(including FDNY) that are members of Mahopac VFD that I am sure could have advised on them on protocol.

As for doing this for every member, time will tell. 25 or 60 year members we'll see, I believe time is on my side. As I don't live in the Mahopac fire district and as pointed out the public's opinion doesn't matter in this event.  The taxpayers may want to vote, with their opinions, in the future at the voting booth. Oh that is if the public ever can vote at the secret public fire district elections that take place during the month of December instead of during regular November elections. (but this is another matter)

Since this was not a LODD, I would hope that no taxpayer money was used for this funeral. If that is the case that full reimbursement from the Company for all District expenses is instituted.

Secret public fire dist elections? As another member pointed out already, they are announced with a legal notice in the news paper as required by law. I'm sorry if you feel you are getting screwed by your dist. but I fail to see where this has any relevance to the topic.

Now for the topic at hand, This was the way that Mahopac FD and I'm sure the family wanted to honor a respected member who was murdered. If you would have done so differently than so be it.

Instead of tearing them apart, why don't we practice some of this "brotherhood" that so many of you claim to beleive in and show our support to the Mahopac FD as they mourn the loss of a beloved member. Or did we all forget that during this battle of egos?

To the Mahopac FD members, My deepest condolences. If anything is needed feel free to PM me.

[firegui 24]

Thank you all for opinions. While I did not mean to be abrasive, I wanted to make a point here.

If the average expected life span of an American is 78.3. Then anytime a member under that age dies from (MVA, Drowning, Household accident, Cancer, Heart, Food poisoning, ETC) then they are entitled to a LODD funeral with full honors and multiple FDs like Mahopac VFD gave.  I would image that budgets and the precious time that volunteers give would soon be strained to the point of breaking. Volunteers complain about the amount of time training takes now, add another 5-6 hours a month for funeral detail. After all they are many more volunteers then paid. (As pointed out in another post)

During my time I have seen many nice, wonderful, great guys die before their time and did not get a LODD funeral. The FD if involved line up at the wake to pay tribute. Maybe sent an engine for flowers and lined up in front of station as the Hearst and family past. There are many FFs from paid FDs(including FDNY) that are members of Mahopac VFD that I am sure could have advised on them on protocol.

As for doing this for every member, time will tell. 25 or 60 year members we'll see, I believe time is on my side. As I don't live in the Mahopac fire district and as pointed out the public's opinion doesn't matter in this event.  The taxpayers may want to vote, with their opinions, in the future at the voting booth. Oh that is if the public ever can vote at the secret public fire district elections that take place during the month of December instead of during regular November elections. (but this is another matter)

Since this was not a LODD, I would hope that no taxpayer money was used for this funeral. If that is the case that full reimbursement from the Company for all District expenses is instituted.

Oh that is if the public ever can vote at the secret public fire district elections that take place during the month of December instead of during regular November elections. (but this is another matter)

This is STATE LAW not secret!!!

[ny10570 745]

Yes they all do deserve a LODD Funeral. You want to talk to someone who has experienced each one of those instances you can call the following people:

.

Aww, way to go with the cut and paste. Guess what, not all of my examples got the LODD funeral or far more important the benefits we apparently agree they deserve.

So are you right or is it the idiots that have fought people trying to get the proper compensation for their fatal illness or injury? Every example I cited has been the subject of a debate over the validity of their claims for LODD funeral or benefits. Im sorry you disagree with the way this dept memorialized their departed brother but since I'm not a member and you I'm guessing are not a member, it doesn't matter what we think.

[X2321 133]

This was an active FDNY member non-LODD funeral recently upstate. The members of this brothers company decided to give him this send-off. The FDNY Pipes & Drums led the procession as a few hundred members stood along the road in their uniforms. Local fire departments were asked to use their tower ladders to hang a large flag for the procession to pass under. This is the way they chose to respect him. Every fire department/company has the right to honor their own the way they see fit, and Mahopac did.

[x635 4,066]

This is the way they chose to respect him. Every fire department/company has the right to honor their own the way they see fit, and Mahopac did.

Very well said, X2321!! You hit the nail on the head. +1

In a nutshell, this is the answer to any question or debate in this thread.

[helicopper 1,050]

X2321 summed it up. We have heard from all sides and because of the emotions associated with this matter, the thread is now closed.

Thank you.