Why? Funeral Protocol for active members

[everybodygoes 331]

I didn't know Mike Purdy, everything everyone says about him was that he was all aces. But, why did he get a fire department funeral? I asked this same question when the "acting" Chief of Cold Spring PD died from a motor vehicle accident was given a full PD Honor funeral.

Acts like this dilute it when guys really get killed in a gun fight (Trooper Dave Brinkerhoff) or in a basement (lt Neuner).

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I didn't know Mike Purdy, everything everyone says about him was that he was all aces. But, why did he get a fire department funeral? I asked this same question when the "acting" Chief of Cold Spring PD died from a motor vehicle accident was given a full PD Honor funeral.

Acts like this dilute it when guys really get killed in a gun fight (Trooper Dave Brinkerhoff) or in a basement (lt Neuner).

Why? Because he was an integral part of the department who was its head at one point. He was their leader and they wanted to honor him for that in death in one of the few truly meaningful ways they could. I guess you wouldn't have wanted to give Reagan or Ford the funeral they got either using your logic.

Does it detract from a real LODD funeral? Thats not for me to decide...but in my opinion anyone who has ever worn their Class As to a LODD funeral verse an untimely death funeral can and will know the difference between the two and what it means.

Edited November 24, 2011 by SRS131EMTFF

[everybodygoes 331]

Completely undermines the men who died in the line of duty. Yes it was a great honor, but look at guys who deserved it.

[firefighter2711 12]

I didn't know Mike Purdy, everything everyone says about him was that he was all aces. But, why did he get a fire department funeral? I asked this same question when the "acting" Chief of Cold Spring PD died from a motor vehicle accident was given a full PD Honor funeral.

Acts like this dilute it when guys really get killed in a gun fight (Trooper Dave Brinkerhoff) or in a basement (lt Neuner).

The Only reason anyone noticed this time from any other time a member of the Mahopac Volunteer Fire Department member has passed away because it was covered by the press. Anytime a member passes away thats what the department does. Do I believe it detracts from a LODD funeral, No. In fact hopefully this is the closest thing ever that the Mahopac Volunteer Fire Department experiences to a LODD funeral. I can tell you if that sad day does come the men and women of the department will show everyone the difference between this funeral and a LODD. And this does Not slight anybodies efforts at doing what they can for any member who passes away for any reason.

On a lighter Note Happy Thanksgiving to everyone

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Completely undermines the men who died in the line of duty.

I disagree completely but we are all entitled to our own opinion.

Lets just hope that we don't have to attend any LODD funerals or funerals in general to show you the difference between a LODD funeral and funeral with full department honors.

Happy Thanksgiving and Stay Safe.

Edited November 24, 2011 by SRS131EMTFF

[x129K 1,393]

Keep in mind that there is a difference between "fire department honors" and a LODD Service.

There is NOTHING that compares to a LODD funeral and wake...NOTHING.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Keep in mind that there is a difference between "fire department honors" and a LODD Service.

There is NOTHING that compares to a LODD funeral and wake...NOTHING.

my point exactly.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

So what was it? Did he get a full LODD funeral or was there a detail/honor guard type of thing at the service? There is a complete difference between the two. Giving a guy a funeral with the same full honors you would as a LODD DOES undermine the guys that die in the line of duty. No two ways about it.

[joetnymedic 43]

while i can understand your question, i have this to say for an answer and i am not a member of mahopac either. i think it was done out if RESPECT, it is my understanding that Mike was one hell of a guy and a great firefighter, and i don't think it undermines anything. It was done out of RESPECT for the man and the tragic way that he died. it was a decision made by his department and one i am sure was not made lightly. i am sure that a lot of thought went into it. I think it was the departments decision and that nobody has the right to question that. they did what they felt was right and what they felt needed to be done. I know i'm gonna take a hit for this post but this is my opinion and i'm entitled to it just as you are yours, which by the way i respect and can understand. But I honestly don't think it takes away anything from someone who passes away in the line of duty. Anyone think that maybe, just maybe this is also a way to help the brothers at mahopac deal and cope with their loss and to help them heal? Like I said, just my opinion

Joe

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I didn't know Mike Purdy, everything everyone says about him was that he was all aces. But, why did he get a fire department funeral?

So much for Brotherhood, eh?

There's a difference between giving honors to an active member who passes away and a Line of Duty Funeral. A BIG difference. But I have absolutely no problem putting on my Class A's to pay respect to a Brother who dies on duty or off. Regardless of the circumstances, Mahopac FD lost one of their family members in a really horrific way, and if they decide they want to do a service for him, that's their business.

All the guys and gals I've met from Mahopac are stand-up people who take care of their own, and despite all the other BS that goes on in the fire service, when it comes down to it, that's one of the core elements of who we are and what we do. THAT'S the Brotherhood, its more than just a T-shirt or a sticker on your helmet. THAT means something.

Having been to LODD funerals for both Fire and Police Brothers who have paid the Ultimate Sacrifice, I can tell you there IS a difference. Even if the two services were exactly the same, you can just feel the difference in the air. I pray that those of us who have experienced that never have to again. And if you never have had the honor of attending one of those services, count yourself among the lucky.

Stay safe Brothers and Sisters.

[ny10570 745]

Luckily Mahopac probably doesn't have a different procedure for Line of Duty vs Active Duty. They haven't had enough members pass where that distinction has to be made. How about who gives a rats a** how they did it so long as his friends and even more importantly his family were given some infinitesimal level of comfort. If the family wanted clowns and jugglers and the dept could provide it, then what more could anyone ask? This kind of s*** stirring goes right along with the people who question weather all LODD deaths are equal. It serves no benefit and only distracts from a department's attempt to honor the service of a member.

[x129K 1,393]

I think it is an honest question.

He does not list alot of info about himself, so we dont know if the OP is a rokkie or a decorated Chief, but let's assume he is a rookie. If he doesn't ask, and the Senior people in the service don't tell and pass it down...true tradition dies.

[wraftery 1,275]

Thre is a difference between a FD Funeral and a LODD funeral. It may be hard to explain, but the difference can be seen in number of Brothers lining the street and how far they came to pay their respects.

There is nothing wrong with honoring a Brother. The honors and ceremonies are not for us or for the deceased. They are for the family of our brother firefighter. The impression on the family of the deceased brother lasts a lifetime.

Yes, a LODD is the supreme sacrifice. Sometimes, no, most times, firefighters spend their entire careers never making a rescue. Only a few get the medals. But doesn't the guy that completes a search under dangerous conditions and finds no one exhibit the same courage as the guy that made the rescue?

At 15 years old, I peered out the limosine window at the saluting line of Firefighters. The vision is still fresh in my mind.

'Nuff said. If it's Line-of-Duty, you'll know. It will be obvious.

[Healz 30]

So when I worked in the HOUSE. I could date one of my coworkers Wives while I myself am still married. Get killed by that FF and get a LODD funeral. YEA RIGHT!!!

I witnessed this spectacle, Mahopac has forever cheapened the LODD funeral.

[gamewell45 258]

Why? Because he was an integral part of the department who was its head at one point. He was their leader and they wanted to honor him for that in death in one of the few truly meaningful ways they could. I guess you wouldn't have wanted to give Reagan or Ford the funeral they got either using your logic.

Does it detract from a real LODD funeral? Thats not for me to decide...but in my opinion anyone who has ever worn their Class As to a LODD funeral verse an untimely death funeral can and will know the difference between the two and what it means.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in NYS aren't police officers always "on duty"? even when off the clock?. If so I think technically regardless of whether it was an accident or not, he was on duty.

[everybodygoes 331]

No cop's are not always on-duty, they have a duty to act, but that would be limited to what you 'see', and if you are an NYPD cop you are better off not seeing anything!

I am not here to question the character of the victim, but to bring it up would that mean if he was the guy who always broke stones and people didn't like he wouldn't get the same respect? How do you set up two trucks with a flag across the road and not compare it to a LODD funeral? I have been to over 100 funerals, I don't know many guys posting in this thread who can say the same. I am sure it meant the world to his family, and that is great, but when someone else dies at a job and they get the same response (people from other FD's) showing up in uniform what does that mean? That a man who was murdered is equal to a man who died trying to protect his neighbors or co-workers?

To think you know what the brotherhood is cause you went to a funeral is beyond me, how about you hop in the car with me Monday for Joey D's funeral, its 200 miles round trip from my house, but I will be there.

[rayrider 94]

So when I worked in the HOUSE. I could date one of my coworkers Wives while I myself am still married. Get killed by that FF and get a LODD funeral. YEA RIGHT!!!

I witnessed this spectacle, Mahopac has forever cheapened the LODD funer

I agree. Drove by and witnessed it first hand. Millwood and somers ladders used to drape flag across rt 6. Turnouts and helmet positioned on chair in front of fhouse along with casket on back of engine. Police details driving around on gators. Been to several lodd unfortunately. Only thing missing was missing man formation and the amount of ffs in class A's. Not trying to disrespect but you have to draw the line. When u make the ultimate sacrifice you deserve the ultimate ceremony. Thoughts and prayers to all of the families and friends!

[firefighter2711 12]

Sorry everyone feels this way. No ones arms were twisted to provide any part of that tribute. It has and always will be done by that department. I've been to many funerals lodd and non lodd. I've seen the same show of respect that occurred that day. The way he passed away and the circumstances aren't for us to judge. We don't know all the facts that led up to this tragic event. Just because it was printed or covered on the news doesn't make it true. If it Would've been a line of duty funeral from the brothers in Mahopac I'm sure there would have been thousands of firefighters lining the streets, closing the town to traffic for hours, american flags up and down the streets , bagpipe bands, dignitaries speaking, motorcycle police. Not a couple of fire trucks in a procession, blocking off your commute for 15 minutes. Again not slighting anyone's attempts at what they do for lodd or non lodd, but I've seen much more pomp and circumstance.

[firegui 24]

So when I worked in the HOUSE. I could date one of my coworkers Wives while I myself am still married. Get killed by that FF and get a LODD funeral. YEA RIGHT!!!

I witnessed this spectacle, Mahopac has forever cheapened the LODD funeral.

ARE YOU FOR REAL????? MAHOPAC DID AN EXCELLENT JOB GIVING RESPECT TO THEIR PRESIDENT. IT SHOWS THE BROTHERHOOD AND CORDERY THE FIRE SERVICE HAS. CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE DEFINITION OF A LINE OF DUTY FUNERAL?? AS OPPOSED TO A REGULAR ACTIVE FIRE FIGHTERS FUNERAL? NOT TO CHEAPEN ANYTHING THE FUNERAL IS WHAT THE DEPARTMENT DECIDES TO DO FOR THEIR PASSING MEMBERS. IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO BRING CAREER OR VOLUNTEER INTO THIS BUT!! THIS MAN GAVE OF HIS LIFE AND TIME FOR FREE AND DESIERVES THE RESPECT OF HIS COMRADS AND THE RESIDENTS OF HIS TOWN.

Edited November 26, 2011 by firegui

[Dinosaur 844]

I must be missing something. What is the difference between a line of duty funeral and a funeral for another member? I've been to both and most often they try to make the non-LODD just like the LODD. Sorry, but I gotta agree that it is different and shouldn't be treated the same.

Sure show respect. Sure honor the member's memory. But don't tell me that you do it the same way as someone killed in the line of duty.

This guy's job was with the highway department, right? How come he wasn't carried on a DPW truck? I'm not trying to tarnish his memory or bash the FD but what makes this guy's hobby more important than his career?

Line of duty deaths warrant the full show of honors and tribute.

[helicopper 1,050]

Alright, everyone needs to settle down.

First of all, typing in all capital letters is considered shouting and is not appropriate etiquette for this forum. Future posts typed in all caps will simply be deleted.

This subject is an emotional one for affected members and it just happened so everyone needs to be sensititve to the fact that some fellow members lost a friend and colleague.

Regardless of whether or not you think the tribute paid was appropriate, please be respectful of your fellow firefighters and EMTBravo members.

Thank you.

[JetPhoto 626]

Speak about the timing of some articles, in the November Fire/Rescue magazine is an article about funerals and discusses "an important question when honoring firefighters who have died"

Line of Duty … or Not Line of Duty?

“The funny thing about firemen is … night and day, they are always firemen.” Ronald, the arsonist played by Donald Sutherland in Backdraft

Edited November 26, 2011 by JetPhoto

[gamewell45 258]

Not trying to be confrontational, but I think each department should do what works best for it and the family regardless of public opinion; if people are offended by the type of Department service rendered, they don't have to attend the funeral. I'm sure at this point Mahopac could really care less what others outside the department think since public opinion is non-binding..

[efdcapt115 1,511]

No cop's are not always on-duty, they have a duty to act, but that would be limited to what you 'see', and if you are an NYPD cop you are better off not seeing anything!

I am not here to question the character of the victim, but to bring it up would that mean if he was the guy who always broke stones and people didn't like he wouldn't get the same respect? How do you set up two trucks with a flag across the road and not compare it to a LODD funeral? I have been to over 100 funerals, I don't know many guys posting in this thread who can say the same. I am sure it meant the world to his family, and that is great, but when someone else dies at a job and they get the same response (people from other FD's) showing up in uniform what does that mean? That a man who was murdered is equal to a man who died trying to protect his neighbors or co-workers?

To think you know what the brotherhood is cause you went to a funeral is beyond me, how about you hop in the car with me Monday for Joey D's funeral, its 200 miles round trip from my house, but I will be there.

For a new member here you sure didn't waste any time jumping right into a fray. Yet you posted virtually nothing about yourself. You talk so brazenly about how many "funerals" you've been too, and how you'll be at "Joey D's" funeral. In another thread you refer to "just calling Rende but it's late and you don't want to wake up the babies".

Since you seem to be the most experienced, most known by others, most having been to funerals, most whatever,.....care to share who, what are/were you? Or does that remain the big mystery....

[everybodygoes 331]

Every time someone states the facts things become an issue here of who you are. Does that legitimize what people say if it has nothing to do with something job related?

[ny10570 745]

So, do you think Lt Dibernardo deserves a LODD funeral? What about the dozens of firefighters that have died as a direct result of their work at the world trade center? How about a firefighter that survives the initial injuries only to succumb to an infection weeks or months later?

Do the cause of the death make a difference? What if it was being struck by a car while getting the meal, getting trapped while trying make that last push to save a civilian, or contracting a disease on an EMS run?

Do we draw the line at the source of ailment that kills someone? Does the obese freighter that dies from an MI while climbing the steps to the bunk room deserve the same send off as the guy who's MI was caused by vasospasm from smoke inhalation?

There are so many variables and so many places that once you start drawing concrete lines you wind up excluding people that shouldn't be. Personal I'd rather see too many get that hookie than not enough. As others have said the difference between a Line of Duty and regular funeral is palpable to anyone who has witnessed one.

Edited November 26, 2011 by ny10570

[16fire5 693]

At 15 years old, I peered out the limosine window at the saluting line of Firefighters. The vision is still fresh in my mind.

I have been told that by more than one firefighter who as a kid was unfortunate enough to take that limo ride. I remind my self that when my slight discomfort from standing at attention or the weather pales in comparison to the discomfort felt by those riding in the limo.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Every time someone states the facts things become an issue here of who you are. Does that legitimize what people say if it has nothing to do with something job related?

What matters to me is whether somebody is full of it or not.

[MoFire390 118]

Completely undermines the men who died in the line of duty. Yes it was a great honor, but look at guys who deserved it.

Mr. Purdy was a great man!!! he deserved every min. of that honor he recived. Mr. Purdy was very compassionate about the fire house. everyone he met was with a smile and a hand shake. mahopac has always given there members who passed away full honors.

would ur department do the same for a member who has been there for over 60 years??? i know mine would

[bigrig77 95]

So when I worked in the HOUSE. I could date one of my coworkers Wives while I myself am still married. Get killed by that FF and get a LODD funeral. YEA RIGHT!!!

I witnessed this spectacle, Mahopac has forever cheapened the LODD funeral.

I hate to agree with you but guys he is right. A little abrasive, but he is right. I mean you are holding Mike up as a hero with this funeral. He was shot because he was "... fatally shot by a co-worker whose estranged wife Purdy had just returned from having dinner with that night." Class A's would have been acceptable. I would not have an issue with that. But the rigs and the flags. That's a bit much. He was a murder victim. If you showed the images of the funeral with not captions or story, you would think he died in the line of duty. And while there is a difference between the LODD and non-LODD, this is a whole different thing. This was not an accident. A guy dying in a car accident, or maybe having a heart attack while at home would be a non-LODD funeral. This should have been a simple funeral not a show.