New Rochelle reduces minimum staffing for Fire Department, cites finances

[FirNaTine 370]

FirNaTine....

Nothing personal, but you, my friend, are our own worst enemy.....

I won't take it personaly but I've been in this Business quite a long time and just get tired of the hypocracy Bro. if I can call you that. Many guys say one thing and then do the opposite, and I'm really gettin tired of the b/s. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I'm sure you can even agree to some extent you've probably seen it all too often also in your Dept.. Anyway stay safe!

Edited November 19, 2011 by FirNaTine

[Bnechis 3,961]

I do know that its FF on shift per call is higher than just about every city in this area (excluding FDNY).

4 of our regular mutual aid partners have similar or greater staffing. its not just FDNY. Also it sounds to me like you are use to a level of staffing that every standard that has ever been developed. Some of these standards have been in exestance for over 100 years.

The number of "employed" firefighters also doesn't account for those who are "employed" but out on some type of injury.

True. But multiple studies have shown that we need approximatly 200 ff's. We had 199 back when we had fewer than 900 runs and the tallest building was 12 stories.

Chances are these other departments are not meeting the mark when it comes to national standards set forth for efficiency and safety of operations.

There per rig staffing is half of the national average. Infact it take 3 rigs to have enough firefighters on scene before they meet state law to enter a burning building.

City of New Rochelle is a City of 72,000. Your comparisons are apples to oranges or oranges to grapes. New Rochelle has true commercial high rises and a large daily influx of workers that the other cities I assume you are comparing to does not. I'm guessing the 72,000 is low ball anyway and definatly does not include the college students.

Our population is 77,000 and you are correct, it does not include the college students at 3 schools. We have over 400 4-8 story buildings, most of which are pre war (WWII), not sprinklered, ordinary construction with open stairwells. We also have a number of 12- 40 story buildings, including about 8 sr citizen highrises (also unsprinklered). 6 Nursing homes (1 with a vent floor) and a hospital.

Our population, area and call volume are 3x what he is comparing us to. And they do not have the same hazards.

[bad box 371]

It just seems like a lot compared to the cities up this way.

Could it be that the cities up your way are not properly staffed???

[YogruntNy 21]

4 of our regular mutual aid partners have similar or greater staffing. its not just FDNY. Also it sounds to me like you are use to a level of staffing that every standard that has ever been developed. Some of these standards have been in exestance for over 100 years.

True. But multiple studies have shown that we need approximatly 200 ff's. We had 199 back when we had fewer than 900 runs and the tallest building was 12 stories.

There per rig staffing is half of the national average. Infact it take 3 rigs to have enough firefighters on scene before they meet state law to enter a burning building.

Our population is 77,000 and you are correct, it does not include the college students at 3 schools. We have over 400 4-8 story buildings, most of which are pre war (WWII), not sprinklered, ordinary construction with open stairwells. We also have a number of 12- 40 story buildings, including about 8 sr citizen highrises (also unsprinklered). 6 Nursing homes (1 with a vent floor) and a hospital.

Our population, area and call volume are 3x what he is comparing us to. And they do not have the same hazards.

Bnechis...first of all, my condolences to hear about this detrimental decline in your dept's staffing. Its sad to say, but we are facing times where the value of our local emergency services have almost been completely dropped, and if it wasnt for the support of our communities and a VERY small group of political "leaders", we'd really be in trouble. We've seen all over the country, and even right here at home! In my experience though, I've seen many of these falls, eventually rise back up. Whether people come to their senses, money booms in, or at the worst scenario people get hurt and they learned the errors of their ways. Stick with it! After reading many of these posts, its very obvious the amount of knowledge some of you people have can be put into arguments to propel your cause. Whether it be public safety, constructions standards, national safety standards and/or even state/federal law, there can always be an argument presented to hopefully light a spark under these people's rumps. Pure curiousity, but has the NRFD unions been fighting this at all...at any level???

Stay safe, and good luck!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Bnechis...first of all, my condolences to hear about this detrimental decline in your dept's staffing. Its sad to say, but we are facing times where the value of our local emergency services have almost been completely dropped, and if it wasnt for the support of our communities and a VERY small group of political "leaders", we'd really be in trouble. Pure curiousity, but has the NRFD unions been fighting this at all...at any level??? Stay safe, and good luck!

Thanks

What the politicians want is the value of our service without having to pay for it.

The 2 major things we have going for us, is they know that our ISO will drop and that will cost the public 10x more than the amount of mony they want to cut. They also have acknowledged that our injury rate and disability rate will go up. This will cost them an unknown, but clearly much higher amount to recieve less service at a much higher cost.

Yes the union is activly fighting this. Thanks for your support.

[nfd2004 750]

As I understand it, the city will drop the minimum manning, which I believe now is "27" down to "24". I believe that Ladder 12 will NOT be manned if members of the on duty shift are off for various reasons. This leaving the City of New Rochelle, referred to as "The New Roc City" with only two ladder companies.

The politicians over the years have given away millions of dollars for "Pet Pipe Dream" projects. They did this to enhance their own political future. Now the cities are crying they have no money. It's the same story everywhere. Fire Depts didn't break these cities, "Politicans Did" trying to buy votes for their own policical future.

From what I know of New Rochelle, it is a city with a high fire load. An older northeast city where its firefighters face the dangers of older buildings, exposures, and today even high rise buildings. So when tragity strikes, the people of New Rochelle can Thank their local politicians for letting them down.

[TimesUp 148]

New Ro was put to the test last night with what looks like their first working fire without the 3rd truck in service. Will the Mayor be able to say there was no lapse in fire protection for his residents. Will the citizens be made aware that city hall is throwing the dice as far as fire protection in the event of a second call for a structure fire?

Edited November 19, 2011 by ltrob

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

We have atleast 3 people retiring (and they are reducing our total size by these members also) and thats preventing an additional 3 members being laid off.

We also have members who are disabled and have been waiting for years for NYS to retire them. These are members who have major life long disabilities and can never work again and the state is taking years to review the paperwork. If the state would agree with all of the doctors (including their own) we could reduce the number of lay offs.

I understand what you are saying. You would think that when people retire they would back fill them with new hires. We are having the same problem on my job. A couple of guys retired and some are out on comp and they only hired 1 when we really needed at least 4. Good luck and be safe!!

[YogruntNy 21]

Thanks

What the politicians want is the value of our service without having to pay for it.

The 2 major things we have going for us, is they know that our ISO will drop and that will cost the public 10x more than the amount of mony they want to cut. They also have acknowledged that our injury rate and disability rate will go up. This will cost them an unknown, but clearly much higher amount to recieve less service at a much higher cost.

Yes the union is activly fighting this. Thanks for your support.

The first things politicians learn in politician school is where and what to cut. They rarely have any interest in the ACTUAL safety or welfare of the citizens...its a show to get votes. In my opinion. They always want you to do more with less. I've worked in two states, and I've seen this propaganda in both. My nephew is seeing it on his job, and so on and so forth. Theres no question you have alot going for you right now! It will tough in the beginning, but they will reap what they sow. Money talks at the end of the day, and these politicains are dillusional to think that cutting positions will actually save money. I just read whats going on in Rockland's Law Enforcement community, and thats another thing that just totally baffles me (sorry for bring up a separate topic, but it falls under the same principle)! I just cant comprehend what goes on in these people's heads...While we're at it, lets shut down half the military funds and expect the same national defense standards. It scares me the direction that these people are taking us! Sorry, I'm beginning to rant!

Happy to hear the union is at least stepping up! They tend to know who to reach out to and end up pulling through. Again, stick with it and keep bringing the fight to them.

My thoughts and support go out to you guys, and everyone else who faces these issues...

Stay safe everyone

[Remember585 815]

I'm not sure a 3rd Aerial is needed at a "routine" house fire, and New Rochelle generally handles them with two Trucks.

BUT - from what I have seen in the time I have been dispatching them is that they almost always have other incidents occur during fires, so now if the two Trucks are working the first fire, there won't be a Truck to pick up additional runs.

A bad move by New Rochelle government!

And not to mention, but there goes the 2nd Jaws on I-95 calls, right?

[Guest truck1234]

Its not only getting bad downstate but upstate also we have cities that have populations between 2500 and 200,000 during the day and alot of cities are running 2 man engines and 2man truck co. while also so doing bls and als runs. There are citis that use als engine and truck co. and some even transport.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I'm not sure a 3rd Aerial is needed at a "routine" house fire, and New Rochelle generally handles them with two Trucks. BUT - from what I have seen in the time I have been dispatching them is that they almost always have other incidents occur during fires, so now if the two Trucks are working the first fire, there won't be a Truck to pick up additional runs.

Yes, we generally only use 2 trucks at a minor structure fire. But during ongoing operations we will need the 3rd for relief and for larger buildings we will need the additional personnel. During a fire we usually will get mutual aid and will recall members to man a 4th truck.

How often do we need additional trucks just to cover calls? During the 1st 200 days of 2011 we had 220 calls which our run pattern calls for 2 trucks and either no trucks or 1 was all that was available. So more than once per day a citizen got a substandard response because we do not have the 4 truck companies that ISO wants us to have.

And not to mention, but there goes the 2nd Jaws on I-95 calls, right?

We will still maintain the 2nd on L-13, but that means even more times that another call in the city will not recieve a truck.

It also means the 2 remaining trucks will have to run an additional 1,000 calls each, straining them and requiring replacement sooner (as it is the tower ladder needs to be replaced in 2 years).

Finally, it not clear how we will be able to maintain our Hazmat/WMD response, with a 50% cut in the personnel assigned to do that job.

[lad12derff 283]

New Ro was put to the test last night with what looks like their first working fire without the 3rd truck in service. Will the Mayor be able to say there was no lapse in fire protection for his residents. Will the citizens be made aware that city hall is throwing the dice as far as fire protection in the event of a second call for a structure fire?

Yes we were put to the test last night with a small basement fire confined to what amounted to a "wine cellar". All concrete walls and fully intact ceiling with no extension to the upper floors. Room and contents fire. We held it with 3 and 2 but the second truck should have been 2 Truck which was closed. TL 11 came from a further distance and things could have been different with people trapped at 02:00 hrs and extension to the upper floors. But what do I know I am just a stupid union firefighter.

[x635 4,066]

This seems like an annual occurence, like a Christmas present to the Fire Department.

Be one with other Unions, like DPW, and have them not collect trash and plow roads. City can't afford to protect it's citizens, how can they afford to keep these services? Let the trash pile up and the roads become inaccesible. Have the DPW send a letter as to why.

What about, very publicly, showing the City's poor financial planning by allowing developers who would have built anyways millions in tax breaks. Why not, very publicly, go to the billionares and have them step up to protect the residents of the buildings they built? I know, will never happen, but can illustrate a point very well.

In NY, can the FD Union have a "No Confidence" vote in the Mayor, or City Council?

What about rallying to override the tax cap?

Maybe hosting an mini academy for City Officials to show them WHY the personel they are cutting are needed? Or some PSA's for residents showing them how the Council is harming them.

The City may not want to pay for it now, but ultimately they are going to pay for it in a lawsuit.

There's plenty of blame to throw around, but I remember how public the decision was to close Engine 24, and at the last minute some politican became a "hero" by finding funding.

[Anesti 329]

ok so im still kinda still confused is ladder 12 closed for good,or just browned out?? i know the answer is in this topic but i have heard 2 diffrent things.

[Bnechis 3,961]

ok so im still kinda still confused is ladder 12 closed for good,or just browned out?? i know the answer is in this topic but i have heard 2 diffrent things.

Brown outs for now. If the proposed budget is approved it will be closed

[Guest truck1234]

how about the cities going aftertax exempt properties such as colleges, business that call themselves non-profit, hospitals, nursing homes,I'am sure the FD's in that area respond to this places for either ems calls our alarm drops.

[Bnechis 3,961]

how about the cities going aftertax exempt properties such as colleges, business that call themselves non-profit, hospitals, nursing homes,I'am sure the FD's in that area respond to this places for either ems calls our alarm drops.

NYS Law says we can not.

[Guest truck1234]

has union suggested to city a piolt program or a surcharge to these properties for auto alarms or any other way to generate revenue for the city instead of cut backs?

[Bnechis 3,961]

has union suggested to city a piolt program or a surcharge to these properties for auto alarms or any other way to generate revenue for the city instead of cut backs?

We already bill all properties for both fire & burgler alarms. After 3 false in a 6 month period. The fire alarms are not considered false if they actually alarmed for smoke (like from cooking).

[Guest truck1234]

how about EMS? Does the city recoup any money from transport or from private firms?

[Bnechis 3,961]

how about EMS? Does the city recoup any money from transport or from private firms?

No the EMS collections only cover about 85% of the cost of providing EMS Transport and the City gives a minor subsidy to cover EMS.

[Dinosaur 844]

It just seems like a lot compared to the cities up this way.

What do you think adequate staffing is for a city fire department?