Bu-Plank-Trose

[x635 4,066]

Here's something I was pondering when I was reading something about a tri village response.

I know I remember this was essential when I worked at 60 Control years ago, and wondering if it still is an agreement for automatic aid?

With that said, and not picking on them just using them as a model, couldn't they benefit from some type of merger.

For instance, does every department need three Chiefs? Or could a Unified Incident Command system work for all three agencies. Could the departments respond as companies, instead of departments? (Example: a Chief is appointed to oversee all three districts, and each company could have one Deputy Chief).

Could resources be enhanced and streamlined through elimination of redundant equipment? Do the statistics justify that each department needs a Rescue, Ladder truck, etc, or could each "company" provide one well trained, well staffed unit? I don't know the stats on how often the apparatus functions are applied.

As far as EMS, couldn't Verplank better serve as a first response agency, with Cortlandt VAC covering the entire district for uniformity?

Could costs such as fuel, training, equipment maintainence, insurance, etc be lowered by reducing redudancies? Also, could firehouses be relocated to more central areas or condesnsed and put the properties back on the tax rolls?

And, this is my wackiest thought- could CCVAC benefit from a merger with Croton EMS? Could the FD's benefit with a merger with Croton to create a "Route 9A" corridor unity?

Again, I'm just using this situation as a model, and not attacking anyone or department just using this as a case study to discuss.

[INIT915 1,119]

In general, your spot on. Anyone who looks at BuPlankTrose objectively would tend to concur.

[x129K 1,393]

Makes perfect sense...

[newsbuff 286]

In general, your spot on. Anyone who looks at BuPlankTrose objectively would tend to concur.

Correct. Anyone from the outside says it makes sense. Anyone from within, it's blasphemy!

[BBBMF 158]

9 chiefs cars, 7 or 8 engines, tower ladder, bronto skylift, 3 rescues, brush truck, 3 boats, and god knows how many utilities...I think Seths right on this one...Time for Consolidation!

If they had a fire and each department rolled with their first due engine and a crew you'd probably get two or threee good crews as an attack engine, water supply engine, and a bunch of guys to do truck work

100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!

[newsbuff 286]

The first step in the right direction would be to dissolve the village. The Town of Cortlandt surrounds it on 3 sides, and its not like there would be a huge amount of new property to deal with.

The village has its own PD, public services, DPW, etc.

With the ToC covering a much larger area, I can't see the addition of 1 square mile to be an issue.

But everyone(politicians included) needs their kingdom.

[10512 214]

I do not know much about Verplanck but the Montrose and Buchanan Firehouses are probably less than a mile away and are on the same street. How were they ever separate departments to begin with? If one looked around, there are more than a few towns and villages that would be more efficient merging. This would include FD's, PD's, DPW's and school districts.

But, as another poster stated, everyone needs their own kingdom.

[MoFire390 118]

Here's something I was pondering when I was reading something about a tri village response.

I know I remember this was essential when I worked at 60 Control years ago, and wondering if it still is an agreement for automatic aid?

With that said, and not picking on them just using them as a model, couldn't they benefit from some type of merger.

For instance, does every department need three Chiefs? Or could a Unified Incident Command system work for all three agencies. Could the departments respond as companies, instead of departments? (Example: a Chief is appointed to oversee all three districts, and each company could have one Deputy Chief).

Could resources be enhanced and streamlined through elimination of redundant equipment? Do the statistics justify that each department needs a Rescue, Ladder truck, etc, or could each "company" provide one well trained, well staffed unit? I don't know the stats on how often the apparatus functions are applied.

As far as EMS, couldn't Verplank better serve as a first response agency, with Cortlandt VAC covering the entire district for uniformity?

Could costs such as fuel, training, equipment maintainence, insurance, etc be lowered by reducing redudancies? Also, could firehouses be relocated to more central areas or condesnsed and put the properties back on the tax rolls?

And, this is my wackiest thought- could CCVAC benefit from a merger with Croton EMS? Could the FD's benefit with a merger with Croton to create a "Route 9A" corridor unity?

Again, I'm just using this situation as a model, and not attacking anyone or department just using this as a case study to discuss.

why open pandoras box???? if u remember verplanck used to cover the entire tri-village with an ambulance. until 1984 when cortlandt vac was created. the vilage of Buchanan pays CCVAC for coverage and requires that we have 1 extra ambulance. i understand ur thought process. just the pride runs too deep in these three towns.

as for the amount of appuratus in the tri-village, its 7 engines, 2 tower ladders, 1 heavy rescue, 1 medium rescue, 1 ambulance, 1 casade truck, 1 boat, 3 utilites and 9 chief trucks.

[INIT915 1,119]

why open pandoras box???? if u remember verplanck used to cover the entire tri-village with an ambulance. until 1984 when cortlandt vac was created. the vilage of Buchanan pays CCVAC for coverage and requires that we have 1 extra ambulance. i understand ur thought process. just the pride runs too deep in these three towns.

as for the amount of appuratus in the tri-village, its 7 engines, 2 tower ladders, 1 heavy rescue, 1 medium rescue, 1 ambulance, 1 casade truck, 1 boat, 3 utilites and 9 chief trucks.

Well, I give you credit for alluding to what others are loathe to admit. Effectiveness, efficiency, and expediency too often take a back seat to pride and tradition.

[BBBMF 158]

It's about time somebody opened "pandora's box"! People are tired of paying taxes for unnecessary duplication of resources and equipment! There are only a few buildings throughout these districts' in which i could possibly see needing that amount of apparatus, one being the W.I.C. building, in which case you'll be getting mutual aid anyway.

Does anyone really think having an ambulance cover Verplank is even necessary when CCVAC is a mile off the boarder and have three ambulances.

You're right the pride does run deep...Every parade Buplanktrose throws about 80 guys combined on the street but when there's a building fire, the FAST shows up with more manpower than all of Buplanktrose. Speaking of which, I'd love to get a rundown of which rigs actually leave the apparatus floor when there is a job in the tri-village and their response times.

Seriously guys...lets eat our pride and dissolve these issues!!!!!!! DO WORK

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I vote for "Vernosanan" (Ver-nhas-ahn-ann)....rolls off the tongue easier.

Edited November 17, 2011 by efdcapt115

[ec255 22]

My biggest objection( Disclaimer: I'm a Deputy Chief and Trustee in Buchanan) would be weather or not our Village would benefit from this- I think we are probably the lowest cost Department in the County, or one of them- 2 engines, 1 rescue, 2 utilities and 3 chiefs cars for under $200k( just under the salary and benefit cost of (1) Police seargent) a year- we are a private co. that enters into a contract for fire protection each year with the Village- We have always prided ourselves on keeping budgets low and spec-ing apparatus that is useful to us and the surrounding agencies.- not knocking any other organizations, but there is some serious money rolling through some of these districts- we have also recieved 3 AFG grants in the past few years in our quest to keep costs to the taxpayers down- I just don't see this with many districts.

[MoFire390 118]

I vote for "Vernosanan" (Ver-nhas-ahn-ann)....rolls off the tongue easier.

good one capt!!! lol

[BBBMF 158]

Im not trying to be a hater guys but when there's a run for a structural fire you always hear the one host department get sent and the other two on standby. Upon confirmation if it's major, the department whose first due always call for at least one piece of equipment from the other two...Why not all be on the same page by sending an apparatus which everyone knows will be vital.

If you consolidate and everyone's on the same page and frequency, everyone knows whats getting out the door first; engine or truck, then you know which apparatus to respond with next and everyone knows that someone will show up with something and some manpower...Why wait???

Example: a few years ago "XYZ dept" was toned out for i believe smoke in a house. One engine got on the road with a chauffer only. The chauffer, once on scene knew someething was going on inside (could hear it in his voice :/) and had the alarm re-transmitted not once but twice before asking for help from somewhere else. When a second member finally showed up and helped him forced the door they gave a 10-75 and luckily more manpower arrived and stretched a line before the fire got well past the incipient stage.

Now if this occurrs in one of these three villages why not all be on the same page and be sending something...And if you're going to go that route then what would be the problem with consolidation?

So what if you're not first due to your own fire...It went out, damage was minimized and everyone did their job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FFEMT150 214]

Im not trying to be a hater guys but when there's a run for a structural fire you always hear the one host department get sent and the other two on standby. Upon confirmation if it's major, the department whose first due always call for at least one piece of equipment from the other two...Why not all be on the same page by sending an apparatus which everyone knows will be vital.

If you consolidate and everyone's on the same page and frequency, everyone knows whats getting out the door first; engine or truck, then you know which apparatus to respond with next and everyone knows that someone will show up with something and some manpower...Why wait???

Example: a few years ago "XYZ dept" was toned out for i believe smoke in a house. One engine got on the road with a chauffer only. The chauffer, once on scene knew someething was going on inside (could hear it in his voice :/) and had the alarm re-transmitted not once but twice before asking for help from somewhere else. When a second member finally showed up and helped him forced the door they gave a 10-75 and luckily more manpower arrived and stretched a line before the fire got well past the incipient stage.

Now if this occurrs in one of these three villages why not all be on the same page and be sending something...And if you're going to go that route then what would be the problem with consolidation?

So what if you're not first due to your own fire...It went out, damage was minimized and everyone did their job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You make a good point here. I could see this working with proper SOG's in place. As was said, yes there is a pride issue in each department but I have felt for many years that a merger would best benefit all tax payers in the dist.

I do see that some people are getting alittle upset by the conversation and would just like to quickly remind them that the origional poster stated he was just looking to start a conversation, so lets have one of those instead of trying to argue.

Edited November 17, 2011 by FFEMT150

[MoFire390 118]

Im not trying to be a hater guys but when there's a run for a structural fire you always hear the one host department get sent and the other two on standby. Upon confirmation if it's major, the department whose first due always call for at least one piece of equipment from the other two...Why not all be on the same page by sending an apparatus which everyone knows will be vital.

If you consolidate and everyone's on the same page and frequency, everyone knows whats getting out the door first; engine or truck, then you know which apparatus to respond with next and everyone knows that someone will show up with something and some manpower...Why wait???

Example: a few years ago "XYZ dept" was toned out for i believe smoke in a house. One engine got on the road with a chauffer only. The chauffer, once on scene knew someething was going on inside (could hear it in his voice :/) and had the alarm re-transmitted not once but twice before asking for help from somewhere else. When a second member finally showed up and helped him forced the door they gave a 10-75 and luckily more manpower arrived and stretched a line before the fire got well past the incipient stage.

Now if this occurrs in one of these three villages why not all be on the same page and be sending something...And if you're going to go that route then what would be the problem with consolidation?

So what if you're not first due to your own fire...It went out, damage was minimized and everyone did their job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is not required that our members go to the fire house to catch the rig to respond to a call...the only peice of appuratus that gets requested is the casade unit. coming from buchanan...u have to understand what the first alarm assignments are before making statements...it is not requied for an engine from the department to respond in right away. hence having them stand by in their own HQ.

[FFEMT150 214]

it is not required that our members go to the fire house to catch the rig to respond to a call...the only peice of appuratus that gets requested is the casade unit. coming from buchanan...u have to understand what the first alarm assignments are before making statements...it is not requied for an engine from the department to respond in right away. hence having them stand by in their own HQ.

Like I said... Lets not have an arguement. Instead lets understand the points others are making and try to agree or make reasonable debates. I feel that BBBMF made a good point here and it is something worth talking about.

[irishfire2491 24]

Better yet how about 3 separate house as Peekskill, Mohegan, and Croton respond with and response with the same alarm. Baby Steps. Baby Steps.

[FFEMT150 214]

Better yet how about 3 separate house as Peekskill, Mohegan, and Croton respond with and response with the same alarm. Baby Steps. Baby Steps.

INSTIGATOR!

[x635 4,066]

My biggest objection( Disclaimer: I'm a Deputy Chief and Trustee in Buchanan) would be weather or not our Village would benefit from this- I think we are probably the lowest cost Department in the County, or one of them- 2 engines, 1 rescue, 2 utilities and 3 chiefs cars for under $200k( just under the salary and benefit cost of (1) Police seargent) a year- we are a private co. that enters into a contract for fire protection each year with the Village- We have always prided ourselves on keeping budgets low and spec-ing apparatus that is useful to us and the surrounding agencies.- not knocking any other organizations, but there is some serious money rolling through some of these districts- we have also recieved 3 AFG grants in the past few years in our quest to keep costs to the taxpayers down- I just don't see this with many districts.

Thank you for pitching in and providing us with some facts about your district. It is much appreciated when someone with firsthand knowledge adds to a topic.

(This is partially in general)

Here's another perspective that I have. When and what is "too much", and when does it start hindering the fire service? There are districts, departments, and communities similar to B-V-M in size, yet they don't have nearly as much equipment? Why? Because, in most places, it isn't neccesary. How much could your district save in insurance, preventitve maintainence, fuel, and other costs of redundant apparatus alone? Couldn't that save more money? Could a Central Station save money, unify the departments, and still maintain an acceptable response time?

Why do departments buy apparatus for "mutual aid" purposes? Montrose has a heavy rescue. Verplank has an awesome ladder that can be set up where other aerial's cant. Buchanan has the Cascade truck. Add an Engine company from each district, a rescue pumper, a utility, a spare Engine, and 1 Department Chief Vehicle, and 1 for each 3 Deputy Chiefs, and wouldn't that work?

Combined with the savings, and if some surplus apparatus is sold off, the three districts could probaly build a sweet training center.

And, since the departments already have automatic aid for different types of incidents, the departments are already one in a sense.

I think it comes down to what's most important? Generally, what I'm trying to ponder is when or what is too much? I'm not picking on these departments, I just think that they provide a good example for this discussion. It has nothing to do with any specific underlying issues or political motives. Personally, I feel it should be providing your citizens with the highest quality service at the lowest cost. I don't feel that excessive redundancy helps anyone, and actually hinders service.

[FFEMT150 214]

Thank you for pitching in and providing us with some facts about your district. It is much appreciated when someone with firsthand knowledge adds to a topic.

(This is partially in general)

Here's another perspective that I have. When and what is "too much", and when does it start hindering the fire service? There are districts, departments, and communities similar to B-V-M in size, yet they don't have nearly as much equipment? Why? Because, in most places, it isn't neccesary. How much could your district save in insurance, preventitve maintainence, fuel, and other costs of redundant apparatus alone? Couldn't that save more money? Could a Central Station save money, unify the departments, and still maintain an acceptable response time?

Why do departments buy apparatus for "mutual aid" purposes? Montrose has a heavy rescue. Verplank has an awesome ladder that can be set up where other aerial's cant. Buchanan has the Cascade truck. Add an Engine company from each district, a rescue pumper, a utility, a spare Engine, and 1 Department Chief Vehicle, and 1 for each 3 Deputy Chiefs, and wouldn't that work?

Combined with the savings, and if some surplus apparatus is sold off, the three districts could probaly build a sweet training center.

And, since the departments already have automatic aid for different types of incidents, the departments are already one in a sense.

I think it comes down to what's most important? Generally, what I'm trying to ponder is when or what is too much? I'm not picking on these departments, I just think that they provide a good example for this discussion. It has nothing to do with any specific underlying issues or political motives. Personally, I feel it should be providing your citizens with the highest quality service at the lowest cost. I don't feel that excessive redundancy helps anyone, and actually hinders service.

I see where you are going Seth and think that you chose a great topic to spark some discussion, even though it may have ruffeled some feathers.

I agree with your thoughts and have also thought for a long time that the tri-village would benefit from some type of merger.

On a side note, Verplancks Bronto sky lift (not a fan by the way...just saying) was donated by Entergy, but is maintained on the tax payers dime.

[ny10570 745]

My biggest objection( Disclaimer: I'm a Deputy Chief and Trustee in Buchanan) would be weather or not our Village would benefit from this- I think we are probably the lowest cost Department in the County, or one of them- 2 engines, 1 rescue, 2 utilities and 3 chiefs cars for under $200k( just under the salary and benefit cost of (1) Police seargent) a year- we are a private co. that enters into a contract for fire protection each year with the Village- We have always prided ourselves on keeping budgets low and spec-ing apparatus that is useful to us and the surrounding agencies.- not knocking any other organizations, but there is some serious money rolling through some of these districts- we have also recieved 3 AFG grants in the past few years in our quest to keep costs to the taxpayers down- I just don't see this with many districts.

I know almost nothing about the tri-villages, but was curious how your $200k budget compares to the other depts on a per capital level. The cost per resident is the real measure of efficiency.

[newsbuff 286]

Better yet how about 3 separate house as Peekskill, Mohegan, and Croton respond with and response with the same alarm. Baby Steps. Baby Steps.

I'm sorry for saying this, but was that english?

[FFEMT150 214]

I'm sorry for saying this, but was that english?

You should try and understand him in person... Almost impossible! Fortunately, I speak Tominese. What he was suggesting is setting the tri-village departments up to operate on alarm assaginments as though each department were simply a station rather than an independant agency. For example: activated alarm at 123 fake street in montrose, montrose would roll an engine, verplanck a truck and buchanan a rescue. Alittle overkill for an AFA i know, just trying to explain the confusion that was a tommy thought.

[newsbuff 286]

You should try and understand him in person... Almost impossible! Fortunately, I speak Tominese. What he was suggesting is setting the tri-village departments up to operate on alarm assaginments as though each department were simply a station rather than an independant agency. For example: activated alarm at 123 fake street in montrose, montrose would roll an engine, verplanck a truck and buchanan a rescue. Alittle overkill for an AFA i know, just trying to explain the confusion that was a tommy thought.

Ahhh, well that makes more sense.

And I don't think that's overkill for an AFA, Mohegan sends 2 engines and a ladder, Peekskill, 2 engines, a tower ladder, and the rescue.

Just going off what I know.

[x129K 1,393]

An AFA is alerting us to a potential FIRE, and should be treated as such. A MINIMUM of 2 engines and a truck should be sent, so I don't think an engine/truck/rescue response is overkill. Keep the Rescue back, send another engine instead.

[FFEMT150 214]

An AFA is alerting us to a potential FIRE, and should be treated as such. A MINIMUM of 2 engines and a truck should be sent, so I don't think an engine/truck/rescue response is overkill. Keep the Rescue back, send another engine instead.

Yeah... Origional post was supposed to show a 2-1-1 assaginment... Brain fart, sorry.

Edited November 18, 2011 by FFEMT150

[Remember585 815]

Residential gets 1 & 1

Commercial gets 2 & 1

Schools & Nursing Home gets all five companies (3, 1, 1).

If Croton gets lumped into this merger, then it must be called Buplancktrose-on-Hudson.

And as far as EMS goes, Croton EMS has basically morphed into "CrOVAC" with the paid personnel from Ossining...

[FF398 45]

I know almost nothing about the tri-villages, but was curious how your $200k budget compares to the other depts on a per capital level. The cost per resident is the real measure of efficiency.

Does the cost per resident vary depending on the size of the district? I know Montrose FD's district is almost 13 square miles, so would the cost per resident be lower then other fire districts??

Edited November 18, 2011 by FF398

[irishfire2491 24]

I'm sorry for saying this, but was that english?

Sorry NEWSBUFF, Next time I will take my time to see what I type to meet your standards. As per FFEMT150 Thank you for understanding my point, As an active member/officer in one department and associate in the other two departments you are never going to kill tradition or break up a department. As for trying to make since of quick response and your proper assignment for each alarm and not waiting to see what you have first before M/A is called in, then I can see something in the lines of working together to get the job done. Then it could come down to each department as whole trying to sit down and not over spend on excessive equipement that is not needed. Nothing works like a snap of a finger.