Gas for Volunteer Members

[ladder55 26]

First of all most people that join to be volunteers do so when they are somewhat young, including myself, and losap means absolutely nothing to them when they are 18. Most people do it because they want to do it.

I have NEVER heard a volunteer say I can't wait to get an suv, I can't wait until I retire so I can collect, or any other "perk" you people are mentioning. P.s

I have been volunteering for 11 plus dedicated years. Its never been about perks for me or any other dedicated volunteer I know.

I come on this site and see a bunch on NON volunteers knocking us for incentives to keep dedicated members active. Im all for it.

When I was an officer our captain would reward the top 3 responders in our company gas cards as an incentive and guess what?... it worked. For all of you vollies stay dedicated, train hard, and stay safe

[ny10570 745]

First of all most people that join to be volunteers do so when they are somewhat young, including myself, and losap means absolutely nothing to them when they are 18. Most people do it because they want to do it.

I have NEVER heard a volunteer say I can't wait to get an suv, I can't wait until I retire so I can collect, or any other "perk" you people are mentioning. P.s

I have been volunteering for 11 plus dedicated years. Its never been about perks for me or any other dedicated volunteer I know.

I come on this site and see a bunch on NON volunteers knocking us for incentives to keep dedicated members active. Im all for it.

When I was an officer our captain would reward the top 3 responders in our company gas cards as an incentive and guess what?... it worked. For all of you vollies stay dedicated, train hard, and stay safe

You said it yourself. The members who are making it happen, showing up, and keeping these depts alive are not going to do it for LOSAP, a gas card, tax deduction, or whatever. No one you actually want around saw those benefits and decided its time for me to join.

Your example of the gas card for the top three responders isn't about the gas card. Are these cards anywhere near the actual annual cost of using you're car for the various FD activities? Its about the thank you. People want their hard work and extra effort acknowledged. A little friendly competition never hurts to get people involved either.

[joetnymedic 43]

Most places couldn't support that unless of course all the volunteers stuck together and didn't respond.

That is 100% definitely a "STRIKE" and that I would never support.

While I am all for a program giving vollys gas or some type of incentive, I think it is definitely WRONG to not respond. If that's the case when you demand something like this, you are demanding to be paid, 1st that means you are not volunteer anymore, but more importantly, I know if I ran a department and the crews came to me and said they weren't going to calls unless they got XYZ, I'd be like drop your gear off right here and see ya. I don't care if I have a career department or a volunteer department covering my town, as long as it's covered. For those who do favor volly departments over career, the statement itself, about not responding is just the reason to advocate for a paid department. I will say this though. While I don't advocate not responding, I do advocate picketing in your off hours for and only for, any life threatening issues which may arise out of the job. Such being inadaquate gear or equipment that can cause severe bodily injury or death, and major things along that line. But even until the issue gets settled, the trucks should still run. Just a personal opinion which I'm sure I'll get jumped on for.

joe

[everybodygoes 331]

Where I live the response district is over 42 square miles, and we drive to the scene 95% of the time, or to the second station to man the Engine to respond to the Taconic. I guess everyone here is rich, so just send the money here, my paypal address is holdontightitsgonnahurt@yahoo.com But anyway, if you choose not to volunteer where you live than that is your choice, and if you are currently not volunteering I don't really think this affects you as this will just boil down to some stupid paid volunteer squabble that never solves anything. And if you live in a town that hads a volunteer fd and you are currently paid and think you would be a scab then I implore you to explain that to the 3 union carpenters working at my house cause they are laid off! Not scabs, just trying to do what they are trained to do and help a brother out.

I have asked a few people including the town attorney and am expecting an answer soon, so far the only thing I heard was how do you keep track? The solution to that is simple a gas key for each user, they all have an ID and the pump can handle thousands of users.

The Town Supervisor said that since we buy at the State Bid, which I am not sure should apply to us cause we are technically I believe a non-profit and tax exempt that this may create an issue, but as of yet, I don't think anything would stop us from distributing fuel legally besides the lethargy of the people who have the control to dispense it.

[SECTMB 612]

Nobody Forgets. Thank you

I was a volunteer for 37 years in three different FD's and two different VAC's. Just before leaving the area my Dept. started one of those LOSAP programs. I didn't stay long enough to get vested. Wouldn't have mattered anyway. I did it for the job, the commaraderie,the good feeling you got when you intervened in someone's worst day to help them through it. If you need incentive beyond that to be 'retained' maybe you need to find something else to do.

[rayrider 94]

How about all the chiefs that use their dept suvs to commute out of town for work cut back a few days and use that fuel for emergencies? Every morning I see this one guy who drives from northern Westchester down to con ed in eastview.

[16fire5 693]

As I read it in NYS an entity can only purchase fuel exempt from the excise tax for its' "own" use. I'm pretty sure dispensing it into POVs even if a tiny bit would be used for "official" purposes is not legal.

[gamewell45 258]

Volunteer fire departments are needed in many areas because they cannot afford a sufficient career system. However, if the answer to recruit/retain volunteers is to continue to give them more money, why not actually hire firefighters?

Most likely because the money has to come from somewhere and in the current economic situation we are stuck in, its highly unlikely the public would be inclined to go with it. Maybe in better times it couild fly.

[gamewell45 258]

and we can buy a couple of SUV's

SUV's sound good to me.

[gamewell45 258]

Everyone forgets we have more volunteers the paid guys in this country!!!

We shouldn't get gas/pension/tax breaks...any of it. We are volunteers! Just sayin.

No one can force you to receive a pension, you can't be required to file for tax breaks nor can they be compelled to buy your gas. If you or anyone else feels so strongly about it, then don't take advantage of it. Plain and simple.

[gamewell45 258]

The 60 cents you're referring too are probably taxes unless there's a bulk contract and you get a substantial discount in volume - and with over 150 agencies in Westchester alone I don't think anyone's getting bulk.

There's more to the fire service then Westchester County.

[gamewell45 258]

Its a gimmick just like LOSAP. People who are in it for the right reasons will do it and the people who aren't will continue to milk the system and contribute NOTHING to the fire service and still collect all the benefits.

How do they collect the benefits if they don't get the minimum required points to qualify?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Its a gimmick just like LOSAP. People who are in it for the right reasons will do it and the people who aren't will continue to milk the system and contribute NOTHING to the fire service and still collect all the benefits.

How do they collect the benefits if they don't get the minimum required points to qualify?

Its easy to get points, you just show up. A persons presence does not equal that they are contributing to the department. Members have posted before that many of the guys just looking for points are the ones who show up, check in then disapear.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Volunteer= a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

What went wrong?

Are you sure that the type of person who comes to a VFD for the LOSAP, Tax break, SUV, or cheap gas is really the kind of person you want as a volunteer?

Excellent point! Some of the best volunteers and for that matter people that I have met and had the pleasure of volunteering with have been in a FD that does not and cant really provide much for its members. No Chiefs vehicles, can't afford LOSAP, no gas discount, and despite not getting these, there is a good turnout at alarms and morale is good. In my fairly short experience in emergency services, I have found that the only people who want more are people who know about more. People from areas and departments that cant afford to buy in to the LOSAP program, or where Chiefs vehicles are few and far between and only in paid departments, do not see these things as recruitment incentives, but rather people from this department see helping the community as a recruitment incentive. Surprisingly, there is a good number of people who feel the same way and continue to get trucks out the door and respond to alarms.

With that said, I can see LOSAP, tax breaks, etc being useful in areas where people work their as*** off to be able to live in the area (ie: Westchester, Putnam, etc) and where the work day is often much longer than the typical "work day," in helping people to find the time. I have met a significant number of people who say that they really want to join the FD or VAC and have wanted to for quite some time but just cant justify it with their families. For these people, the LOSAP program might be the deciding factor that make the decision seem alright in the eyes of the family.

[Dinosaur 844]

Where I live the response district is over 42 square miles, and we drive to the scene 95% of the time, or to the second station to man the Engine to respond to the Taconic. I guess everyone here is rich, so just send the money here, my paypal address is holdontightitsgonnahurt@yahoo.com But anyway, if you choose not to volunteer where you live than that is your choice, and if you are currently not volunteering I don't really think this affects you as this will just boil down to some stupid paid volunteer squabble that never solves anything. And if you live in a town that hads a volunteer fd and you are currently paid and think you would be a scab then I implore you to explain that to the 3 union carpenters working at my house cause they are laid off! Not scabs, just trying to do what they are trained to do and help a brother out.

I have asked a few people including the town attorney and am expecting an answer soon, so far the only thing I heard was how do you keep track? The solution to that is simple a gas key for each user, they all have an ID and the pump can handle thousands of users.

The Town Supervisor said that since we buy at the State Bid, which I am not sure should apply to us cause we are technically I believe a non-profit and tax exempt that this may create an issue, but as of yet, I don't think anything would stop us from distributing fuel legally besides the lethargy of the people who have the control to dispense it.

Now you're complicating things. Is the fuel purchased by the district, the VFD, or the VAC (as if the issues in New York weren't complicated enough, here's three different corporations servicing the same fire district and that doesn't count two different ALS providers)? As a member of the VFD can the district provide you with fuel they've purchased?

The solution to keeping track isn't so simple either. Sure the system can allow thousands of users but how do you insure that only those who are entitled to obtain fuel do obtain it? What if I didn't make my calls for the month but I fuel up anyway? Then what?

Since you're saying you don't want the fuel for free, how do you pay the district/FD for the fuel you obtain? That's probably a full-time job just to keep track.

Then there is the issue of the IRS. Are you legally allowed to obtain fuel without paying taxes? Members not a tax exempt entity and may not be eligible as individuals. Someone should speak to a tax attorney too.

[Dinosaur 844]

There's more to the fire service then Westchester County.

There is? Really? I had no idea! :P

[gamewell45 258]

Its easy to get points, you just show up. A persons presence does not equal that they are contributing to the department. Members have posted before that many of the guys just looking for points are the ones who show up, check in then disapear.

I'm not going to challenge or debate those who've posted otherwise because perhaps thats how their departments do business, but in my department, you show up, you'd better be fully dressed in your ppe, report to the IC , do whatever your told to do and don't even think of leaving until the trucks are back in service unless you have permission from the IC if you expect to get your point.

Edited November 17, 2011 by gamewell45

[DaRock98 76]

How do they collect the benefits if they don't get the minimum required points to qualify?

Bnechis pretty much nailed it.

It’s not hard at all to just to show up and sign your name after all the apparatus is out the door for an alarm. No matter how many changes/improvements you try to make there is always that hand full of people that look for every possible loop hole and exploit it. Bottom line is if you want to be in the VOLENTEER fire service you will do it for no gas/LOSAP/ or any other perks. Everyone knows who those people are they are the ones that are at every call, every drill and every training exercise you hold. They are the ones who are up front asking questions and participating not the guys goofing off in the back.

Sorry for the rant I will get off my soap box now.

[JM15 386]

In my opinion you shouldn't be trying so hard to have elaborate gas schemes to keep members. A volunteer does it because they like to. Telling someone that they are going to get 40 cents off their gas isn't going to keep that person around. Sometimes all it takes is a thanks for the good job, a couple of t-shirts, maybe a dinner? Just a little bit of recognition and thanks for all the work they do can go along way.

[everybodygoes 331]

This is a thank you, as well as a way to retain members and not have guys who are living on the edge be concerned if they have enough money for gas or food, believe it or not many people are living like that.