Protester Dangling Beneath Tappan Zee Bridge

[ny10570 745]

Should FDNY call in Yonkers for a rescue in Riverdale or Greystone? Yonkers is closer. NYS had the resources available and handled a job within their area of responsibility. The team is prepared to respond all over the state. Responding to Tarrytown is really not all that extraordinary for them.

[newsbuff 286]

Well he's being charged with something:

Officials said Davitt was charged with misdemeanor counts of criminal trespass, reckless endangerment and resisting arrest for his one-man protest, which snarled traffic on the bridge for hours.

Police said the Garnerville man also was charged with a disorderly conduct violation and could face additional charges once the Westchester County District Attorney's Office is contacted, likely today.

(lohud)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20111108/NEWS03/111080347/Fired-county-worker-freed-after-protest-stunt-Tappan-Zee?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

[JJB531 652]

Who cares who cuffed the guy?

As stated before, it's not a matter of who cuffed the guy, it's a matter of pointing out and correcting false information that was disseminated through non-factual statements that had no legitimate source to back up the claim. As a law enforcement officer, I have a peaked interest in the original statement about who cuffed the guy.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

As stated before, it's not a matter of who cuffed the guy, it's a matter of pointing out and correcting false information that was disseminated through non-factual statements that had no legitimate source to back up the claim. As a law enforcement officer, I have a peaked interest in the original statement about who cuffed the guy.

Seriously though, who cares? What difference does it make? Perhaps the guy made a mistake in how he worded his post. Perhaps the troopers needed assistance and one of the workers was in a spot where he could help out. Do you know for a fact that he was cuffed by a cop as opposed to the thruway worker? If you do then can you cite a legitimate source from where you're obtaining your facts?

Personally as I've stated before, it doesn't matter who did the cuffing but you're arguing a statement and citing lack of evidence but what have you brought to the table to show otherwise?

[INIT915 1,119]

Seriously though, who cares? What difference does it make? Perhaps the guy made a mistake in how he worded his post. Perhaps the troopers needed assistance and one of the workers was in a spot where he could help out. Do you know for a fact that he was cuffed by a cop as opposed to the thruway worker? If you do then can you cite a legitimate source from where you're obtaining your facts?

Personally as I've stated before, it doesn't matter who did the cuffing but you're arguing a statement and citing lack of evidence but what have you brought to the table to show otherwise?

First, JJB531 isn't obligated to prove anything. He's merely asking someone who did make such a statement to back it up. Which I support.

However, to answer your question, from an actual eyewitness account, it was a law enforcement action, not a civilian. As to be expected.

[x635 4,066]

Ummm....has anyone thought if this guy could get up there, people with evil intentions could probaly too. Someone needs to look at this issue. This bridge is critical infastructure, as anyone knows, yet is very lax on security as compared to other bridges.

As far as making judgement on this individual, who cares? That's what we are there for. Yes, someone could get hurt in a rescue like this, but we put ourselves on the line everyday with every call. We knew this when we took the job. When we don't coordinate on these types of jobs, that's how people get hurt.

Also, the number of aviation resources (Helicopters) in the area poses it's own risks.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

First, JJB531 isn't obligated to prove anything. He's merely asking someone who did make such a statement to back it up. Which I support.

However, to answer your question, from an actual eyewitness account, it was a law enforcement action, not a civilian. As to be expected.

You're right, he isn't under any obligation to provide any proof of what he is disputing but then again I don't see where it says AMISHFF has to either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander no? Furthermore if you have an eyewitness account of the events in question (whether you where there or you talked to one of your trooper buddies) then why pose the question if you already know the answer. Just correct the guy on his mistake and move on.

X635, you bring up a good point in regards to the security measures of the bridge. For someone like this to take the time to rig up his rope ladder, climb down, and deploy his banner? Wonder how long it was before someone noticed him. Imagine what a group of guys with ill intentions could do. Just the thought of it is scary.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Ummm....has anyone thought if this guy could get up there, people with evil intentions could probaly too. Someone needs to look at this issue. This bridge is critical infastructure, as anyone knows, yet is very lax on security as compared to other bridges.

Recon team to Command, we've located the elephant in the room...

[INIT915 1,119]

You're right, he isn't under any obligation to provide any proof of what he is disputing but then again I don't see where it says AMISHFF has to either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander no? Furthermore if you have an eyewitness account of the events in question (whether you where there or you talked to one of your trooper buddies) then why pose the question if you already know the answer. Just correct the guy on his mistake and move on.

X635, you bring up a good point in regards to the security measures of the bridge. For someone like this to take the time to rig up his rope ladder, climb down, and deploy his banner? Wonder how long it was before someone noticed him. Imagine what a group of guys with ill intentions could do. Just the thought of it is scary.

Well, guess were at an impasse then. I remain of the belief that if you say something, don't be afraid of someone asking you to back it up. JJB531 never made any blanket statements. He merely pointed out that an ascertain made by another poster didn't seem to hold water. And he's right.

Just imagine someone implying they saw a whole bunch of guys on your job standing around at a scene, leaving the firefighting to some civilian standing there with a garden hose. You'd probably be curious and ask him to support it, no?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Imagine what a group of guys with ill intentions could do. Just the thought of it is scary.

Someone or a group of guys could do something that could compromise the integrity of the bridge....like holes and rust.

But do not worry, Mr Feiner will take on security by personally patrolling the bridge once it has been replaced by a new bridge and he makes it a park.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Well, guess were at an impasse then. I remain of the belief that if you say something, don't be afraid of someone asking you to back it up. JJB531 never made any blanket statements. He merely pointed out that an ascertain made by another poster didn't seem to hold water. And he's right.

Just imagine someone implying they saw a whole bunch of guys on your job standing around at a scene, leaving the firefighting to some civilian standing there with a garden hose. You'd probably be curious and ask him to support it, no?

There is no impasse to be had here. I don't dispute your beliefs. In fact I agree with the notion that if you make a statement it should be supported with facts, hence the reason why I asked JJ if he had any legitimate sources to back his dispute of AMISHFF's statement. He either doesn't or just refuses to provide it. I know that he's been back on this thread since I posed the question because the two of you are going back and forth "reppin" each others posts

He may be right, I don't know and it doesn't really matter. My point is (one that you proved with your last post) that he should be willing to back up his counter point just like he was demanding that AMISHFF back up his.

Stay safe.

[INIT915 1,119]

There is no impasse to be had here. I don't dispute your beliefs. In fact I agree with the notion that if you make a statement it should be supported with facts, hence the reason why I asked JJ if he had any legitimate sources to back his dispute of AMISHFF's statement. He either doesn't or just refuses to provide it. I know that he's been back on this thread since I posed the question because the two of you are going back and forth "reppin" each others posts

He may be right, I don't know and it doesn't really matter. My point is (one that you proved with your last post) that he should be willing to back up his counter point just like he was demanding that AMISHFF back up his.

Stay safe.

LOL.

Note to Moderators: Can you add in an emoticon of a head banging against a wall. None of the current smiles available to me fit just right.

Edited November 9, 2011 by jack10562
requested emoticon furnished!

[JJB531 652]

There is no impasse to be had here. I don't dispute your beliefs. In fact I agree with the notion that if you make a statement it should be supported with facts, hence the reason why I asked JJ if he had any legitimate sources to back his dispute of AMISHFF's statement. He either doesn't or just refuses to provide it. I know that he's been back on this thread since I posed the question because the two of you are going back and forth "reppin" each others posts

He may be right, I don't know and it doesn't really matter. My point is (one that you proved with your last post) that he should be willing to back up his counter point just like he was demanding that AMISHFF back up his.

Stay safe.

I will be more then happy to address your concerns when I am at a computer as I am not going to attempt to type one out from my cell phone.

[ny10570 745]

Ummm....has anyone thought if this guy could get up there, people with evil intentions could probaly too. Someone needs to look at this issue. This bridge is critical infastructure, as anyone knows, yet is very lax on security as compared to other bridges.

Assuming the rope ladder was already rigged it would take minutes to be over the rail. No passive security measure could have stopped him in time. Every year people scale NYC's bridges. The security measures are there to prevent significant threats. An individual on the deck or climbing the superstructure without some serious explosives is not going to do any significant or lasting damage to the bridge. Even a decrepit bridge like the Tapp.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

LOL.

Note to Moderators: Can you add in an emoticon of a head banging against a wall. None of the current smiles available to me fit just right.

I second that motion.

Not for nothing..but are they our congress people? Their language sounds just like what I see and hear on C span.

As far as the rest...JJB make no blanket statement or stated anything he "heard"...unlike the person that he called out as a professional and adult.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Oh did anyone notice they reported in the news he was released on $500 bail. lmao.

[JJB531 652]

Bull,

I would like to address your discontent with my questioning of the sources another poster now that I am back at my computer. Regardless if you think I was avoiding answering your questions, the simple fact is that it would have taken me 2 hours to send a well thought out reply from my cell phone. Since I am now back at my computer, I am more then happy to respond to your questions and assertions.

First I would like to address your question of "who cares". Personally, as a law enforcement officer, I care. This is an issue that is related to my line of employment, along with INIT915, and several other members of the law enforcement community, and is an issue that is worth discussing amongst us law enforcement professionals. This was not your "run of the mill" jumper, this was an individual who was armed and required a conducted energy device to be utilized to bring them into custody. A civilian engaging in bringing this person into custody raises questions of scene control by the law enforcement officers on scene, and for us is worth discussing. INIT put it very well, and I was going to ask the same question of you, but he beat me to it. If a poster made a claim that a bunch of firemen were standing around while a civilian was fighting a fire with a garden hose, I would expect a member of the Fire Service here to question the validity of this claim. Day after day, I read threads here on EMTBravo that are Fire Service related, where issues are raised and questions are asked about things that I personally don't care about and seem trivial to me simply because I'm not in the Fire Service. So should I start questioning "who cares" every time I read a Fire Service related matter that seems trivial to me? Of course not, what's not important to me may be an important issue to someone else for reasons that I can't understand because it doesn't pertain to me or my line of work. While EMTBravo is "fire service heavy", there are law enforcement officers on this site who enjoy discussing law enforcement issues, and dispelling some of the rumors and myths associated with law enforcement, since it's amazing how everyone is an expert when it comes to police work. In fact, I was able to dispel one rumor based on my questioning of the handcuffing that was brought up by another poster, and educate that person on proper police tactics and procedures when it comes to handcuffing EDP's. If you ask me, just for that reason alone, my questioning of the original claims was well worth it then.

Perhaps I could ask why you care that I have taken a peaked interest in the claims made by another poster, claims that still have been ignored by the original poster? At no time did I make any statements, claims, or assumptions as to who handcuffed this individual. I clearly stated in my initial post that I found it to be suspect, given the circumstances, that a civilian Thruway Authority worker handcuffed an individual who was armed with an edged weapon and required Troopers to deploy a conducted energy device. My uncertainty with the validity of the original statement is based on my experience, as I would have found it uncommon for a law enforcement officer to permit a civilian to handcuff an armed individual. Does it happen? Sure it does, and generally when it does happen it happens under extreme circumstances which are worth discussing because there are things to be learned from the incident. As an LEO, we can then study the tactics utilized, the efficiency of the less lethal device utilized, how well the scene was controlled by the LEO's who responded. But there's no point to starting a discussion when the initial information provided that could raise all of these questions is false. So you can ask me all you like what factual proof I have to my claims, but I haven't made any claims. I merely questioned, along with INIT915, the validity of the statement made by another poster, and have inferred from the lack of response to our questions, that the information provided was not accurate. As I stated before, if this information was factually correct, then the issue of scene control arises and is something that is worth discussing. But before we get into a entire discussion based on incorrect information, I wanted to get the real story, and not just a "shot in the dark" assumption. If I had proof or factual documentation, then I would have provided my sources and informed the original poster that they were wrong and the Troopers handcuffed this individual. Where in any of my posts did I say that the Troopers were the one's who applied the handcuffs? To infer that I need some kind of concrete proof to question claims made by someone else is a bit silly. IMHO, I feel my experience, as well as the experience of several other of our knowledgeable and well educated professionals in their respective emergency service field, is all the "proof" they need to able to question someones claims that may seem inaccurate or false.

I hope I answered your questions and addressed your concerns. If you require any further information, please feel free to PM me.

Joe