Vista Fire

[JFLYNN 681]

I noticed there were at least 7 different departments which responded to this single family house fire. Also noticed what seemed to be a 16 minute response time for the firsl arriving apparatus? Seemed to be quite a while until two lines were reported to be operating as well. I really don't know this area so I'm not criticizing necessarily...perhaps this response time was very reasonable considering road distance and conditions, etc.

However, I feel this fire is another glaring example of why consolidation and regionalization in Emergency Services is so desperately needed in most of Westchester County.

Thoughts?

Vista Units Operating: E141, T4, 84B1

Pound Ridge Units: 2401, E113

South Salem Units: 2451, T2

Goldens Bridge Units: 2142, T1

Bedford Hills Units: 2031, 2032, 2033, TL57 w/ FAST

New Canaan Units: T8

Ridgefield Units: T12

WEMS: 45M3

WCDES: Bat 13

Edited October 31, 2011 by helicopper
IA apparatus rundown added to this thread for reference. Please note that IA rundowns are not necessarily complete.

[firedude 985]

Vista - Working Fire - 10/31/11

I noticed there were at least 7 different departments which responded to this single family house fire.

This is how we do things in westchester. If this took place in a hydrant district, this would not have happened. Most of the mutual aid was requested for provideding a water source. (Tankers: 1,2,4,8,12)

Also noticed what seemed to be a 16 minute response time for the firsl arriving apparatus? Seemed to be quite a while until two lines were reported to be operating as well.

Vista (Lewisboro) was one of the hardest hit communities in Westchester after the storm. Vista FD was very busy this week and probaby had more calls these past couple of days, than compared to last years annual calls. Vista is proudly a 100% volunteer fire department. Given the time of day, Im sure manpower was an issue.

Overall, great job to Vista FD and all envolved with the fire last night!

Edited October 31, 2011 by firedude

[Alpinerunner 61]

A better measure of response time (with respect to manpower) would be dispatch to en route. We only know dispatch to on scene, which does appear to be 16 minutes. If it was 12 minutes from dispatch to responding and 4 minutes from responding to "on scene", it would tell a much different story than if those numbers were reversed.

This isn't to say that consolidation isn't necessary, just that the response time, along with the number units required for water supply, aren't necessarily indicative of a problem at this job.

[newsbuff 286]

Another question. Were there really no Vista Officers on scene? There does not appear to be any from the IA.

[JFLYNN 681]

A better measure of response time (with respect to manpower) would be dispatch to en route. We only know dispatch to on scene, which does appear to be 16 minutes. If it was 12 minutes from dispatch to responding and 4 minutes from responding to "on scene", it would tell a much different story than if those numbers were reversed.

This isn't to say that consolidation isn't necessary, just that the response time, along with the number units required for water supply, aren't necessarily indicative of a problem at this job.

If 7 departments are routinely called for a Private Dwelling fire, why not consolidate? You wouldn't need so many Chiefs and you would have more Firefighters. Chain of command would be more clear. Standard Operating Guidelines, Policies and Procedures, etc. would be in the same for all members operating on scene, etc.

What are the advantages, if any, to having so many small departments who are not capable of handling even small or medium size incidents on their own?

[jack10562 414]

The 16 minute response very well may have been the best effort, given that at approximately 2AM, volunteer members would need to wake up, get dressed, scrape off the windshield, then drive to headquarters, or the scene, in snow and ice.

For what it's worth, google maps indicates it's roughly 3.4 miles and 6 minutes travel time from the firehouse to the location,(provided I have the addresses right) and we don't really know what the weather and road conditions were like for those responding to the firehouse and then to the scene at that time of day.

Having 24 hr emergency responder staffing could have cut the initial arrival time by 10 minutes, but then we have the water supply, or more realistically lack of water supply, which is altogether another issue that needs to be addressed.

I totally agree with the assessment that consolidation and regionalization is needed in many geographical areas.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Would consolidation really make a difference in this circumstance? Whether you call 4 tankers from 4 different departments or 4 tankers from 4 different stations within one department, wouldn't the end result be the same? Even with consolidation I wouldn't think it's feasible to put all the tankers in one station but to keep them spread out.

I'm not suggesting that consolidation is not needed on certain levels, I just don't think in the circumstance of tanker response that it would really make a difference. One thing I think that could benefit from consolidation is having all the tankers on an equal playing field as far as spec's of the tankers instead of figuring out who had side dumps, direct tank fills, etc.

[JFLYNN 681]

Would consolidation really make a difference in this circumstance? Whether you call 4 tankers from 4 different departments or 4 tankers from 4 different stations within one department, wouldn't the end result be the same? Even with consolidation I wouldn't think it's feasible to put all the tankers in one station but to keep them spread out.

I'm not suggesting that consolidation is not needed on certain levels, I just don't think in the circumstance of tanker response that it would really make a difference. One thing I think that could benefit from consolidation is having all the tankers on an equal playing field as far as spec's of the tankers instead of figuring out who had side dumps, direct tank fills, etc.

4 different apparatus spec committees...4 separate maintenance facilities....4 (at least) separate Chiefs...4 separate training divisions....etc. etc. etc.

Again, what is the advantage of having so many separate departments and duplication of resources if you can NEVER handle a simple house fire on your own?