Ignorant comments about Fire Prevention

[sklov5949 23]

From Poughkeepsie Journal article about fire Prevention:

"As important as smoke detectors are, they don't do anything to actually put out the fire. The next step in fire prevention and safety may likely be that sprinkler systems will be required in all new homes, as part of the state fire code, Steenbergh said."

Here's a comment from the Pojo news from XBMer:

"Think about that statement for a second: 3100 people are killed each year in the US by a fire in their home. There are 310,000,000 people in the US. That means the percentage of people killed in a house fire is: 0.000097% That is a pretty small percentage. In fact, based on 2009 statistics, you are about 5 times more likely to die from a homicide.

Does that sound like a good reason to increase the cost of each home by tens of thousands of dollars? Does it surprise anyone that spending other people's money is part of the thought process of a captain of a fire department? They spend money like the stuff that comes out of their hoses. Who is going to do all the yearly testing on these sprinkler systems? Who is going to do the maintenance? (I think it is obvious who will pay for them). Note to all fire captains out there - when you make a ridiculous statement regarding the future of fire protection, people might start to question the past statements you made to justify your spending (and the taxes the public now pays to support them)."

Sometimes I just don't understand the mentality of people. We pay thousands of dollars for insurance and never use it but you have it Just in case...

[antiquefirelt 994]

From Poughkeepsie Journal article about fire Prevention:

"As important as smoke detectors are, they don't do anything to actually put out the fire. The next step in fire prevention and safety may likely be that sprinkler systems will be required in all new homes, as part of the state fire code, Steenbergh said."

Here's a comment from the Pojo news from XBMer:

"Think about that statement for a second: 3100 people are killed each year in the US by a fire in their home. There are 310,000,000 people in the US. That means the percentage of people killed in a house fire is: 0.000097% That is a pretty small percentage. In fact, based on 2009 statistics, you are about 5 times more likely to die from a homicide.

Does that sound like a good reason to increase the cost of each home by tens of thousands of dollars? Does it surprise anyone that spending other people's money is part of the thought process of a captain of a fire department? They spend money like the stuff that comes out of their hoses. Who is going to do all the yearly testing on these sprinkler systems? Who is going to do the maintenance? (I think it is obvious who will pay for them). Note to all fire captains out there - when you make a ridiculous statement regarding the future of fire protection, people might start to question the past statements you made to justify your spending (and the taxes the public now pays to support them)."

Sometimes I just don't understand the mentality of people. We pay thousands of dollars for insurance and never use it but you have it Just in case...

One might note that 3100 Americans killed is more than are killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined year after year, yet the costs there make sprinlklers look like a grit of sand in the bottom of the bucket. It's clear that the poster has very little info on residential dwelling sprinklers, but that's really up to the fire service to get the word out, sometimes our own people are unarmed when it comes to these facts.

[Danger 160]

This is just part of the constant hate and criticism we receive from this paper.

[Bnechis 3,961]

It's clear that the poster has very little info on residential dwelling sprinklers, but that's really up to the fire service to get the word out, sometimes our own people are unarmed when it comes to these facts.

Well put.

Retrofitting with sprinklers is not cheap, but in new construction the cost is much lower and the average insurance reduction for them means they are paid for in less than 7 years and for the rest of the building life, you are saving money. With most morgages being 30 years, that means you will pay less for the home for 23 of those 30 years. And that does not include the cost savings if you have a fire.

Communities that are fully sprinklered (mostly built in the last 40 years) have required a much smaller FD, which would save this anti FD guy the money he is so pissed about spending).

It is not realistic to sprinkler older homes, but if you start with new ones, in time, the community will benefit.

[WAS967 97]

Talk to me when they come up with a system that will extinguish the fire without causing thousands in water damage.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Talk to me when they come up with a system that will extinguish the fire without causing thousands in water damage.

Let's talk now then. A residential sprinkler head average maybe 13 gpm upon activation, 95% of residential fires where sprinklers were present were held or extinguished by 2 or less heads. So under 26 gpm water flowing will cause how much damage compared to a fire that doubles in size every minute and that's "old math" compared to the new highly combustible furnishings we use today.

Let's say there's are dwelling fire that a career staffed FD responds to within 6 minutes of detection. The fire was already out of hand when discovered requiring the call to 911, now it's 64 times greater than at discovery. Upon arrival the FD leads out in just 1 minute and starts water on the fire (pretty good), what are they flowing? I'll be conservative and say 150 gpm. That's the same amount of water basically as two heads would have flowed until the FD arrived, with no increase in fire size. Starting to get the picture? And that's if they only needed to flow for 1 minute, which is extremely unlikley.

As for inadvertent water damage, the data suggests this is extremely rare. You already have water piped throughout the home, and today plumbers are mostly using PEX tubing or CPVC with expands upon freezing rather than break like iron pipe or copper.

Our city has mandated sprinklers in new one and two family dwellings since 2010, thus far none of the systems have exceeded $10k, and the high was due to the home having an in home business which the state decided to require more sprinkler head coverage and required a second larger water entrance, which is not the case in any of the other homes.

With uninformed naysayers in our midst, we're sure to have to fight an uphill battle all the way. And lastly, fire damage is permanent, water damage is largely reversible, it's a no brainer, is it not

Edited October 29, 2011 by antiquefirelt

[Bnechis 3,961]

About 20 years ago I remember this argument was going around based on should a library be sprinklered because of the potential water damage.

The best statement during that was you can dry out a book, but how do you un burn it?

It has been stated that the human race lost so much knowledge when the library at Alaxander burned that if it had not, Neil Armstrong would have been the 1st man on Mars, not the mon.

[lad12derff 283]

Let's talk now then. A residential sprinkler head average maybe 13 gpm upon activation, 95% of residential fires where sprinklers were present were held or extinguished by 2 or less heads. So under 26 gpm water flowing will cause how much damage compared to a fire that doubles in size every minute and that's "old math" compared to the new highly combustible furnishings we use today.

Let's say there's are dwelling fire that a career staffed FD responds to within 6 minutes of detection. The fire was already out of hand when discovered requiring the call to 911, now it's 64 times greater than at discovery. Upon arrival the FD leads out in just 1 minute and starts water on the fire (pretty good), what are they flowing? I'll be conservative and say 150 gpm. That's the same amount of water basically as two heads would have flowed until the FD arrived, with no increase in fire size. Starting to get the picture? And that's if they only needed to flow for 1 minute, which is extremely unlikley.

As for inadvertent water damage, the data suggests this is extremely rare. You already have water piped throughout the home, and today plumbers are mostly using PEX tubing or CPVC with expands upon freezing rather than break like iron pipe or copper.

Our city has mandated sprinklers in new one and two family dwellings since 2010, thus far none of the systems have exceeded $10k, and the high was due to the home having an in home business which the state decided to require more sprinkler head coverage and required a second larger water entrance, which is not the case in any of the other homes.

With uninformed naysayers in our midst, we're sure to have to fight an uphill battle all the way. And lastly, fire damage is permanent, water damage is largely reversible, it's a no brainer, is it not

CPVC will not expand but I get your drift Chief.

[antiquefirelt 994]

CPVC will not expand but I get your drift Chief.

Good catch. As noted the point stands, but the CPVC would likely be similarly fallible to copper. In our local ordinance, we allow the systems to be shut-off in 1 and 2 family dwellings, if they are to be unoccupied for any length of time. We have plenty of "snowbirds" who enjoy 5 months and head south for the rest. To our way of thinking, these are about life safety and nothing else, thus no lives, no issue. If they were to be used to effect setbacks as has been promoted in some tightly congested communities, I'd think twice about that. Life safety designed or not, they're still pretty effective at limiting damage. So far that's not been utilized here, but has been discussed for infilling small downtown lots. I'd suggest requiring reporting private alarms if the setbacks were to be amended to ensure proper notification sooner.

[Dinosaur 844]

If we worry about the nameless, faceless bloggers who do nothing but spam media websites with their nonsense we're all going to have ulcers and hypertension.

Worry about the things that we can control or actually influence. And that ain't those bloggers!

Edited October 29, 2011 by helicopper
Profanity removed.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I love when civilians post on sites like that about our jobs and they know nothing of what they are talking about. The cost per square footage of construction for residential sprinkler system is nothing considering the grand scheme of things. I let this stuff roll off my shoulders and let the experts tell me how to do my job or how I'm overpaid..etc. Only ones have it worse and its tough for me to admit...are cops. Everyone in the world thinks they know their job, the law and how it should or shouldn't be done.