Student/Resident/Live-in Firefighter

[Guest Willman940]

Hello,

Some of you may know me, others may not. I am John "Will" Schowengerdt, and I want to be the best firefighter I can be. I've started the fire program at the local tech school and have my NFPA 1001/IFSAC FF1/Hazmat Ops, and am a LT at a neighboring towns explorer post. Because I don't live in the city the department I am in explorer for serves and they are not payed, I cannot run calls unless I'm at the station for drill, which are few and far between, if I'm even allowed to ride.

My parents, are both college educated, and (for the most part my mother) believes no matter what I need a college education, no matter how many times I tell her in the age of city service exams and equal opportunity employment it is a waste of time for a white male like me to spend 4 years in school.

I've come across a few compromises such as FDs with Live-in or student Firefighter or Resident Firefighter programs. I've decided that if I have to get a fire science degree I want to get the best one I can, or at least a close to it. The bottom line is, I don't want to be held back like I am as an explorer, I understand why that is but if I'm going to go somewhere I want to be treated as any other probie would, regardless of if I'm in school or not.

So here is my question, do you know of any well known/renown/respected programs like this or schools with a FD I can serve at in the area?

I should note, that the above is meant to offend no one. This is just my opinion based on what I have heard from firemen who are in the type or position I would like to be in. I could be dead wrong or have misinterpreted what they said. So I apologize to anyone I have crossed the wrong way with these words.

Thank you very much for your time and wisdom, and have a great weekend,

John "Will" Schowengerdt

P.S. Stay safe.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Hi John,

There are others on the board here who will be able to help you much more than I with specifics regarding your questions. But reading into your post I just wanted to share an observation if I might; it's great to read how much your heart and head is totally into firefighting, and how you are chomping at the bit for things to move a little quicker, for the functions you want to be involved with today, not tomorrow.

You have absolutely nothing to be apologetic about; your desire to grow faster into that position, to gain that responsibility is honorable and refreshing.

You're building an impressive resume and skill-set, and if you maintain that fire in your heart, that obvious passion, you're going to be one hell of a firefighter. The fire-science degree will be a major advantage for you; gaining a firefighting career is extremely competitive, and you'll be in familiar territory in future testing and promotion scenarios.

Your post is great, I'm sure many of the members will read it and remember how they felt "coming up." Thanks for sharing that eagerness and passion for the fire service with us. Wishing you the best of success in your en devours....

[FightingIrish 7]

Closest I can suggest is down in Maryland, PG and montgomrey counties.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Maybe not what you are thinking of but St. Michael's College in Colchester, VT has a student run Fire/EMS department that runs about 2,500 runs a year EMS/500 Fire

Edited October 13, 2011 by SRS131EMTFF

[JFLYNN 681]

Hello,

Some of you may know me, others may not. I am John "Will" Schowengerdt, and I want to be the best firefighter I can be. I've started the fire program at the local tech school and have my NFPA 1001/IFSAC FF1/Hazmat Ops, and am a LT at a neighboring towns explorer post. Because I don't live in the city the department I am in explorer for serves and they are not payed, I cannot run calls unless I'm at the station for drill, which are few and far between, if I'm even allowed to ride.

My parents, are both college educated, and (for the most part my mother) believes no matter what I need a college education, no matter how many times I tell her in the age of city service exams and equal opportunity employment it is a waste of time for a white male like me to spend 4 years in school.

I've come across a few compromises such as FDs with Live-in or student Firefighter or Resident Firefighter programs. I've decided that if I have to get a fire science degree I want to get the best one I can, or at least a close to it. The bottom line is, I don't want to be held back like I am as an explorer, I understand why that is but if I'm going to go somewhere I want to be treated as any other probie would, regardless of if I'm in school or not.

So here is my question, do you know of any well known/renown/respected programs like this or schools with a FD I can serve at in the area?

I should note, that the above is meant to offend no one. This is just my opinion based on what I have heard from firemen who are in the type or position I would like to be in. I could be dead wrong or have misinterpreted what they said. So I apologize to anyone I have crossed the wrong way with these words.

Thank you very much for your time and wisdom, and have a great weekend,

John "Will" Schowengerdt

P.S. Stay safe.

In my opinion your Mom is right. Get not only your Bachelors but an advanced degree now before family and work obligations get in the way. Most importantly do not expect that your experiences in firefighting and / or emergency services will be very similar to your predecessors. The one thing you can be sure of is that during your working life, the fire service, and in fact the world, will undergo enormous, and oftentimes, rapid change. A well rounded undergraduate and graduate degree will make you much more capable of anticipating and positioning yourself for the changes you will see. Don't limit yourself to a fire science degree either- you will be studying that stuff for promotion anyway- get the most well rounded education that you are able to- researching and writing, public speaking,government, history, psychology, technology, etc. are just basic skills which are necessary to function as an effective, progressive, fair leader in almost any field of endeavour. Consider a bachelor's in management, organizational leadership or some such with a minor in fire science or emergency management. After that you will have a better idea as to what to study for your Master's Degree.

Don't believe everyhting any of us in the Fire Service tell you (it's very hard to be objective about yourself)- seek out contrasting opinions, as you have done here. Spend time (such as in college) with people who have no connection to the fire service or emergency services. Learn from them too.

Realize that as a Firefighter you will be working with many dedicated, hard working people, but you will also be spending your life working alongside many who just want a decent civil service job and who do not have the same pride and work ethic that you do. This can prove to be a big shock and an enormous sense of dissapointment to a "gung-ho" young guy such as yourself. If you think you will be able to motivated these types and change their attitude, I would suggest that you first find a brick wall and bang your head against it as hard as you can a few times and make sure you enjoy that.

[voltage1256 42]

I know at my college they have a "Fire Suppression" course, and funny enough I have not looked into it. Absolutely get a degree and go to college. I'm currently studying to be an airline pilot (assuming all my medical stuff works out (see other post) and you'd truly be surprised how one in the same fire service and flying are. Sure to be a pilot you don't need to have a degree in Aeronautical Science, and you don't need a degree in "Airline Pilot Specialty", just as to be a fire fighter you don't need a degree in Fire Science but, it helps and it sets you apart from any competition just as efdcapt stated having that degree opens doors and helps build an impressive resume. And a college education is important because it will give you other options while you wait in line to be called to the academy just as I hope to be called to wait in line for the flight deck.

Best of Luck to you John!

[ny10570 745]

JFLYNN nailed it. Get that brick and start banging. Seriously, use this opportunity to get yourself an education. Take classes in everything until you find something else that you like. A degree can serve to both assist your career and provide you a back-up plan. Stuff happens and even the most passionate are at times forced to change their plans. Myself and several others have had concrete career plans completely thrown into chaos through injury, economics, and just life. Don't forget that it takes time for the civil service process and you could be years away from working. Get your degree started. If college is just that unpalatable to you at this time, learn a trade or skill. I've noticed it in my peers, and its rapidly getting worse, no one knows how to do things with their hands.

[FightingIrish 7]

Sorry for the quick reply earlier if you’re really interested in looking at a degree in fire or EMS and want to possibly be a live in check out http://www.fdlivein.com/ it was actually created by former live ins and college grads of fire science programs. Also if you’re unsure I know many of the live in programs in Maryland have ride along programs so you could see what it’s like normally however the programs do require you to be 18 to ride along.

[firedude 985]

100% Stay in school. I had the same mindset when I was younger. Now im in college, and im loving every second of it. You will think otherwise in a couple of years. Yes, college isn't for everyone but when your looking for work, it gives you a couple of brownie points.

If you are looking for resident firefighting programs, I'd look into the Colorado Mountain College- Fire Service Technology Degree. Part of the program runs you with Eagle River Fire Protection Districtor Vail Fire Department as an Intern Resident Firefighter.

I would also highly recomendSt. Micheals College(Colchester, VT). St Michael's Fire Rescue is a great program.

More local to our tristate area, I believe Purchase FD offers housing to volunteers if they attend SUNY Purchase or Manhattanville College. Its not a resident program but it gives a you a place to live in return for your service for the community.

Edited October 13, 2011 by firedude

[JohnnyOV 2]

In my opinion your Mom is right. Get not only your Bachelors but an advanced degree now before family and work obligations get in the way. Most importantly do not expect that your experiences in firefighting and / or emergency services will be very similar to your predecessors. The one thing you can be sure of is that during your working life, the fire service, and in fact the world, will undergo enormous, and oftentimes, rapid change. A well rounded undergraduate and graduate degree will make you much more capable of anticipating and positioning yourself for the changes you will see. Don't limit yourself to a fire science degree either- you will be studying that stuff for promotion anyway- get the most well rounded education that you are able to- researching and writing, public speaking,government, history, psychology, technology, etc. are just basic skills which are necessary to function as an effective, progressive, fair leader in almost any field of endeavour. Consider a bachelor's in management, organizational leadership or some such with a minor in fire science or emergency management. After that you will have a better idea as to what to study for your Master's Degree.

Don't believe everyhting any of us in the Fire Service tell you (it's very hard to be objective about yourself)- seek out contrasting opinions, as you have done here. Spend time (such as in college) with people who have no connection to the fire service or emergency services. Learn from them too.

Realize that as a Firefighter you will be working with many dedicated, hard working people, but you will also be spending your life working alongside many who just want a decent civil service job and who do not have the same pride and work ethic that you do. This can prove to be a big shock and an enormous sense of dissapointment to a "gung-ho" young guy such as yourself. If you think you will be able to motivated these types and change their attitude, I would suggest that you first find a brick wall and bang your head against it as hard as you can a few times and make sure you enjoy that.

Best thing I ever did was get a college degree, in a field completely unrelated to anything fire. If your civil service tests don't work out, which they haven't so far for me, then you have a degree to fall back on. Taking civil service exams, are like dropping your resume off at businesses; don't limit yourself to just one option.

[joetnymedic 43]

I would never, talk down firefighting or EMS as a career as 10570 and JFLYNN pointed out, college is a must do. You never know what can happen down the road and trust me, you'll need that college education to get you by. I can attest to that first hand. I was involved in a volly department just a bit and I was doing EMS full time for a job and I loved it, but something happened ( I caught some really screwed up crap) and I had no choice but to stop doing what I loved. It's really great when you can wake up in the morning and actually be happy that you are going to work at a job you love, you can trust me on that 110%. But when you have to stop doing it, you best have a good cushion to fall back on. It took me 9, almost 10 years of fighting before the insurance company finally did the right thing and stepped up to the plate, and even now I still have to fight for stuff. I will say this though, Never, ever, if I had the chance to do it all again, would I not do what I did. Those that I worked with, as well as those that I vollied with and some are on this board, are some of the best people,and friends a guy could have. I am proud to call these guys my other "family". It's something nobody can ever take away from me and something I will cherish till the day I take my last breath. But remember, you have to do what's best for you at all times and you can't help anyone if you can't take care of yourself. Good luck with what you choose to do in life.

Joe

[CBX4627 114]

I had your same passion years ago. I went to the Univ. of New Haven in West Haven, CT and studied Arson Investigation. What I SHOUD HAVE DONE was learn a trade (Carpentry, plumbing, electrician, etc), would have been MUCH MORE useful to me! Been a NYC Fireman now for over 10 years, and that degree doesn't put any extra money in my pocket.........Not saying at all that you shouldn't go to college, because you should, but I might want to rethink the Fire Science major...........

[PFDRes47cue 653]

100% Stay in school. I had the same mindset when I was younger. Now im in college, and im loving every second of it. You will think otherwise in a couple of years. Yes, college isn't for everyone but when your looking for work, it gives you a couple of brownie points.

If you are looking for resident firefighting programs, I'd look into the Colorado Mountain College- Fire Service Technology Degree. Part of the program runs you with Eagle River Fire Protection Districtor Vail Fire Department as an Intern Resident Firefighter.

I would also highly recomendSt. Micheals College(Colchester, VT). St Michael's Fire Rescue is a great program.

More local to our tristate area, I believe Purchase FD offers housing to volunteers if they attend SUNY Purchase or Manhattanville College. Its not a resident program but it gives a you a place to live in return for your service for the community.

I believe Ithaca, houses student firefighters as well.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I had your same passion years ago. I went to the Univ. of New Haven in West Haven, CT and studied Arson Investigation. What I SHOUD HAVE DONE was learn a trade (Carpentry, plumbing, electrician, etc), would have been MUCH MORE useful to me! Been a NYC Fireman now for over 10 years, and that degree doesn't put any extra money in my pocket.........Not saying at all that you shouldn't go to college, because you should, but I might want to rethink the Fire Science major...........

Great point about having a trade skill Bro.

[nfd2004 750]

I have read all the above post. I know and certainly respect what each guy has told you. I am friends with a few and they have been there and done that. But just as it was in the firehouse during my time on the job, we would sometimes disagree.

I think its Great that you would like to get your degree. BUT, there are many more things that you can do Right now to get that firefighter job, before getting that degree.

First file and take every firefighter test you can.

Most places require a current CPAT card. You need to keep that up.

Get your EMT or better yet, your medic cert. Some places are looking to hire EMTs and Paramedics. BUT, you better be willing to work as a paramedic and keep up your skills. That may not be too easy to do if your not into that kind of work.

A few have mentioned about housing for students if you spend some time at the firehouse doing calls. Thats a Great idea, but don't focus on the Fire Degree yet.

Sounds simple, but pick up one or two of those Firefighter Entrance Exam books. Degree or no degree, if you don't score high enough on the written exam, you won't have a chance at getting the job.

Some places now have Recruit School. I know in Connecticut they have a 14 week course that isn't easy, but you can maybe put yourself through. Some places in an effort to save money are making that a requirement to be able to take the test.

Remember, you are looking to become a "Probationary Firefighter" not a Chief. If you get on the job, certainly a degree would help you with any promotion. But for you, thats a ways off yet.

Talk to some of the newer guys that are on the job now. I'm sure they will be able to help you too. Keep yourself in Excellent physical health and have yourself a back up plan in case things don't work out. And certainly stay out of trouble.

(And George, I got your PM).

[cbfire25 9]

I'm a live-in firefighter in Pennsylvania while I go to school. I am also on the 'investigations' committee for my department which conducts interviews for prospective members. The main thing I alert incoming students to is the fact that when you are here, you are here for school and not the firehouse. We have a strict minimum GPA requirement for both our members and our live-ins. There is just no substitution for an education. I watch many kids come here and waste away when they stop focusing on their school work (the partying takes its toll too). While some aspire to land a job in the fire service, the majority don't. With that being said, being a live-in is doable (I am both a live-in and the rescue company lieutenant), but as an aerospace engineer the many sleepless nights do take their toll and don't leave any time for a social life... Good luck!

A word of advice about being a live-in at the PG county departments, if you happen to end up down there, be careful where you tread. I have a friend who spent a semester down there and ended up failing out of school when he lived in at a station; not all of them care about their live-ins academic status.

[houlidsa 76]

I am also a UNH grad and wish I studied something else. Or at least split it up and did the fire science as a minor or substituted for it for filler classes. If you want to be a fireman and support your family be prepared to get a second job because not everyone can say that there is enough OT or oppurtunity. I think back now and to have become a nurse or CPA would be a home run.

Be a male homecare nurse and watch Jerry Springer all day or request a special vacation every Spring earning an entire year's salary do tax returns. Anyways good luck and don't get tunnel vision with the whole fire science thing.

[Guest FDLiveIn]

Check out FDLiveIn.com

[ffmc36 1]

My opinion, absolutely go to college, and definitely not fire related. As many here can attest to, as you pursue a career with the FD, you will take many, many tests...none of which have anything to do with your knowledge/skills/dedication of fighting fires. At the very least, go to school with the idea that you will be great at taking tests.

Also, when it comes to making decisions now that will affect the rest of your life, look at your parents as "senior men". Respect the advice they give you the same way you respect the advice of senior men here or at your dept. Only wish someone said that to me when I was a teenager.

But at the end of the day, no matter what you end up doing, don't let that passion you have die. Best of luck!

[grumpyff 1,159]

Definitely go to school now, it is much easier. I got my BS in Fire Science from CUNY John Jay (College of criminal justice) And if I could have stayed my last semester full time (Married, working full time with one child and a second on the way) I would have had a double minor in Public Administration and government. Once you get into working full time, relationships, kids etc school work quickly takes a backseat to other things, and becomes almost impossble. It can be done, my brother got his RN while working full time, and my wife is currently in her clinicals working towards her RN while working a full time and a part time jobs. Sometimes I don't how she does it , and both have said they wished they had done it right out of high school. Study something that you like, as others have mentioned a degree in Fire Science has limited uses. As for me, I am employed as a police officer, and the degree got some laughs, and even some questions as I interviewed for police officer positions in the area. Some jobs require college credit to get hired, and more to be promoted, but most do not care if it is in "underwater basket weaving" or related to fire fighting. Most use it to see if you will be able to handle the classwork in the academy, or if you are really lucky officer school later on. If you can learn a trade that can be a great help, it gives you a better understanding of how things are built, and will react in a fire should you get hired as a firefighter. Take every civil service test that you can, even if like Yonkers, they tell you first preference is to its residents, it is just another test to get a feel for how these tests are written. Take other exams such as police officer, they often have similar questions that test your reading comprehension, problem solving, memory etc. Always have a back up, you never know what the future will hold. You may get your dream job and get hurt on or off the job. I have 7 years left til I can retire, and my orthopedic surgeon keeps hinting that my back may not be able to handle it, as I have had two surgeries to correct a herniated disc, that occurred during a non job related activity. You never know what the future holds, but a good education can get you though a lot. Good luck in your studies if you choose to pursue it, and good luck in your career.

[OLDGUY19 6]

Stay in school get your degrees

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Go to school. I didn't want to either but got talked into it and I don't regret it. Just received my Bachelor's from University of New Haven in Fire Administration and I'm about to start a great emergency management/planning job (which I NEVER would have had a chance at getting at my age without my internship and program at UNH.) UNH is pretty big on "experiencial education" which is a fancy phrase for "get off your dead butt and get involved, make some connections." That part was pretty helpful. A lot of the guys I went to school with all got great fire jobs down in Maryland, Virginia, etc.

I was a volunteer while in school which gave me a great opportunity to put some of what I was learning to practice. I stayed pretty busy with that but I definitely agree with the guys who said make sure you spend some time as a STUDENT. Some guys got caught up too much in the firefighter side of things. If it works out, you'll be a firefighter for at least 20 years. Spend some time as a college kid. The local bunking program for UNH does have GPA requirements and makes it easy to balance between the two.

I don't disagree with the advice of learning a trade though. Always good to have a wide variety of skills. I just stuck to landscaping and selling uniforms. Neither of which I particularly enjoyed.

[sfrd18 360]

John,

It's great that you want to be a firefighter. It's a job like no other. But, I would say, definitely stay in school. It may seem like a pain, and I know some guys will regret it and say how it didn't really help them, etc. But, the more education you can get, the better you will be as a firefighter and as a person. Getting a good college education should be a number one priority. Four years in college will make you, as has been said, more well-rounded to deal with the day-in, day-out life as a firefighter. Also, I agree with perhaps learning another trade. A fire science degree may or may not help you in both getting hired and or in your career. Learning a trade/getting a degree however, can help you make a little more money, especially on the days off.

Also, it make take a while to get hired by a paid department, so having another job during that waiting period helps pay the bills. Additionally, it's getting harder and harder to get a job on a career department, as there's a lot of competition, especially in today's economy. The FDNY was just hiring and had over 60,000 applicants, so to get hired there, for example, you really have to be the best of the best. However, keep in mind, that having a college education, being a volunteer, on top of any other degrees and certifications you may have(such as EMS training), will help make you stand out above other applicants who may not have what you have.

Going to college, getting out on your own, and getting a job is an exciting time in your life, especially for a prospective firefighter. It may seem frustrating for now, but don't worry, you'll get there. And once you do, like has also been said before, you can be on the job for over twenty years. For the time being, however, go to school, get your feet wet in a volunteer setting, get as knowledgeable as you can about firefighting in order to really get a feel of what the job's about, and ask yourself if this is really something you want to do for a good portion of your life. But most of all, enjoy being a teenager and a young adult and have fun. Time flies by, and you'll get there soon enough.

Good luck, and stay safe!

Edited October 15, 2011 by sfrd18

[Guest Willman940]

Well, I think this sheds some light on things. My original plan was to go get a fire degree and dabble a bit in some trade based classes. I took a metal work class in high school that I really enjoyed so I've thought about welding or diesel mechanics, because I've always loved trucks. I tried FDLivein.com, the problem is not finding the department its finding the school. As for the area I'd like to live, its kind of a toss up. I love the midwest, but I also love the Lake tahoe area, and pretty much all of Colorado. At the same time, like almost anyone, I'd love to get on somewhere like boston, or DC. As was said earlier, it takes the best of the best. So the journey begins.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Willman940

[ex-commish 490]

My parents, are both college educated, and (for the most part my mother) believes no matter what I need a college education, no matter how many times I tell her in the age of city service exams and equal opportunity employment it is a waste of time for a white male like me to spend 4 years in school.

First your parents are 100% correct. You need an education and I feel today it needs to go beyond the bachelor's level. I am a parent of an aspiring police officer or firefighter ( or perhaps baseball player) who is presently in college whom I am on top of day and night to continue his studies while he takes civil service tests. It may never happen for him so he needs a back up plan. I believe you can see it is a tough economy right now so you need to be more marketable and I believe an education is key.

On another note I myself am a soon to be retired civil servant and dropped out of college after 3 semesters despite my parents plea for me to stay in. I wish had listened to my parents.