East River Helicopter Crash **Discussion**

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

As most of you already know a yesterday a helicopter pilot lost control of his aircraft and crashed into the East River. 5 people on-board and all but one where pulled to safety by responding rescue crews. The fifth was trapped inside the helicopter as it sank to the bottom of the river and was later recovered by divers.

How would some of the smaller departments handle such an event? I know there are a lot of communities that border the Hudson River or some other large body of water. What type of resources/equipment is there available to mitigate such an incident? Is there training for this sort of scenario? Mutual Aid plans?

[SOUSGT 357]

About 30 years ago, a small plane crashed in long island sound. Several police boats and private craft responded. The emergency personnel assembled on shore and were ferried out to the site. Unfortunately only the dogs on board survived. This was mid summer and all of the boats were staffed and in the water. The local yacht clubs had launches and boats available.

A lot of the resources on the sound are seasonal. While there may be a few boats in the water in the off season the majority are dry docked.

If we look at the last disaster in the Hudson, while it occurred in the off season, the landing took place in the perfect spot for a water rescue. There were cameras form the pier on the plane as it landed and ferry boats on scene within 3 minutes. If the plane turned North and landed above the GW, the outcome may have been different.

Edited October 5, 2011 by SOUSGT

[x635 4,066]

What type of helicopter was it?

I think I remember seeing photos at WCPD in their files of a either small plane or helicopter crash on the Bronx River Parkway in Hartsdale. I saw the photos in 2000'ish, I think the incident was in the 60's or 70's.

[mfc2257 464]

What type of helicopter was it?

Bell 206 JetRanger

[helicopper 1,050]

What type of helicopter was it?

I think I remember seeing photos at WCPD in their files of a either small plane or helicopter crash on the Bronx River Parkway in Hartsdale. I saw the photos in 2000'ish, I think the incident was in the 60's or 70's.

It may have been even earlier than that. It was a Bell 47 helicopter being operated under contract to the then Metro North Railroad (prior to the MTA consolidation) and it crash landed right around Fenimore Road.

[x635 4,066]

How would some of the smaller departments handle such an event? I know there are a lot of communities that border the Hudson River or some other large body of water. What type of resources/equipment is there available to mitigate such an incident? Is there training for this sort of scenario? Mutual Aid plans?

In my Probie Class 03-05, we had a few members of this forum, led by another member who is a firefighter in an urban lower Westchester city, and an ARFF Firefighter at Stewart Air Force Base. We were taught how to handle small aircraft incidents, as well as large.

If it were to crash into water, I know Yorktown Heights has a water rescue unit, and Somers a SCUBA team. I'm not sure of any other water rescue resources that could arrive in time to make rescues except for WCPD Aviation, if their Bell 407 is available immediately.

I think an incident like this varies greatly, since there are so many scenarios for aircract crashes. For instance, on a quiet March morning two years ago, here in Austin, a guy who for two decades was after the IRS and didn't think he had to pay his taxes, so what does he do when he is completly fed up? He sets his house on fire, drives to the local airstrip, puts a barrel of gasoline in the cabin, takes off, and then, manuvering the plane through wires, signs, highway, etc crashes smack into the first floor of an office building that housed an IRS Resolution Center office around 10AM. Only one man was killed, not including the pilot. Primary search was completed at 5PM when the structure was deemed suitable to go into by engineers. The building had an evacuation plan in place that was practiced twice a year by city code, and everyone was able to evacuate without any fatalities. When firefighters arrived, they immediately sized up the scene and went into defensive mode, given the size of the fire. Personel were assigned to account for everybody in the building, and everyone was accounted for except for one. They extinguished the fire, and the building stands today. The steel structure recieved minimal damage, and required only a couple of minor repairs and replacements. The building is being rebuilt in the same steel structure, as a LEED certified building. But who woulda thunk something like that would happen here? And, there weren't even a lot of FD personel or apparatus on scene as most were not needed.

Nobody knew of this guy's psychotic past. However, not only did he kill himself, he burned down their house.....and left his wife and child penniless and in the spotlight for his actions.

I've found that a great IC can make or break the incident.

If this were to happen at Westchester County Airport, it would be a cluster. You'd have a response from multiple agencies, all with their own IC's and protocols. I know there have been drills, but still with the large frame aircraft flying in and out as well as corporate jets and international flights, I wonder how it would be staffed during the daytime? I know if it were nights and weekeneds, every available person would respond or buff the call.

Sources mentioned above are from the book, "Images Of America-Westchester County PD Protect And Serve" by Michael Lavin and Frank J. Donovan. If you don't have it and are interested in the very cool history of WCPD/Sheriff/Parkway Patrol and photos their equipment and incidents from their formation to prosent day, I highly reccomend it. Really amazing and very interesting photos from times gone by!

http://www.amazon.com/Westchester-County-Protect-Images-America/dp/0738509515/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317851456&sr=8-1

Amongst "numerous aircraft crashes WCPD responded to", one photo of each is in the book:

August 30th, 1954: "Navigator" plane crashes on the Grasslands Reservation

October 21st, 1951: Military Plane crash at Westcheser County Airport

[dillondotcom 16]

Not to start a pissing contest. But if you watched any of the media coverage on this you would have thought the FDNY wasnt even there. It was so bad that my g/f who was watching the news asked me if the FDNY even had dive teams b/c she said she was only seeing ESU and NYPD guys getting interviewed and the news casters kept saying great job by the NYPD.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Not to start a pissing contest. But if you watched any of the media coverage on this you would have thought the FDNY wasnt even there. It was so bad that my g/f who was watching the news asked me if the FDNY even had dive teams b/c she said she was only seeing ESU and NYPD guys getting interviewed and the news casters kept saying great job by the NYPD.

Does it really matter if one agency gets more press time than another? Do you think the victims care who pulls them out? I thought it was about trying to help people, not get press time.

Everyone on scene did a great job.

That being said, I'm surprised not more people are chiming in on this. I'm really curious as to what contingencies/plans some of the agencies in Westchester/Putnam have in place in the event that something like this would happen on their jobs.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Not to start a pissing contest. But if you watched any of the media coverage on this you would have thought the FDNY wasnt even there. It was so bad that my g/f who was watching the news asked me if the FDNY even had dive teams b/c she said she was only seeing ESU and NYPD guys getting interviewed and the news casters kept saying great job by the NYPD.

Does it really matter if one agency gets more press time than another? Do you think the victims care who pulls them out? I thought it was about trying to help people, not get press time.

Everyone on scene did a great job.

That being said, I'm surprised not more people are chiming in on this. I'm really curious as to what contingencies/plans some of the agencies in Westchester/Putnam have in place in the event that something like this would happen on their jobs.

Bull is right on here. The NYPD guys were in the right place at the right time doing a drill when it happened. There has been other times nationwide were a FD agency had been at the incident that was a police incident and assisted them in mitigating the problem. Its all about working together and you know what, for those NYPD guys to dive into the water right after it happened you have to commend them. It all about helping those in need.

[ny10570 745]

It wasn't the multi-million dollar boats and helicopters that made the difference. The first respiratory arrest was secured and hoisted up a ladder to a waiting stretcher. The second was on her way up the ladder when miscommunication caused the haul to fail and she went back into the water. That's about where the news footage kicks on and you see them bring the victim to the fire boat.

Not every department needs their own boats, but every department on the water needs to be familiar with how to work with those boats and what to do until help arrives. Swift water and ice rescue teams are great, but you can't just sit there waiting until the cavalry shows up. You need a strategy for mitigating the situation without making the situation worse.

[Cos Cob 215 7]

From what I heard there was no Fd/pd pissing match ... news last night reported oem was first on scene! From the news footage I saw things went about a smoothly as can be in a situation like that.

[AMISHFF 26]

Great job by everyone. Glad all our brothers are safe.

Found this today.

[FF398 45]

An article posted by CNN announced yesterday, that a second passenger from the East River crash has now past away.

Link: http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/12/us/new-york-chopper-crash/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Edited October 13, 2011 by FF398