New FDNY Ambulance

[Anesti 329]

Has a photo shoot at Cambell Supply In New Jersey

[rfd63l12 2]

nice looking rig, just curious if anyone knows why they went with the 4 door? seems like it adds a lot to the wheelbase

[texastom791 31]

I'm pretty sure they went with the 4 door so the crews can store their gear with them.

Edited September 26, 2011 by texastom791

[x635 4,066]

Nice shot!

Wheelbase looks tough, though. Time will tell.

Also, since they refer to it as FDNY EMS, why does it say "FDNY Ambulance"?

[Anesti 329]

It also has rear blue lights, not sure about the front light bar though.

[Anesti 329]

I'm pretty sure they went with the 4 door so the crews can store their gear with them.

Other reason that i heard but cant verify is that then can also transport family members of the patient.

[Capejake72 8]

Dodge does not make an extended cab chassis, so the crew cab gives extra room for the medics for gear, or room for a ride along, or possibly family members

[Future Fireman 4]

Nice shot!

Wheelbase looks tough, though. Time will tell.

Also, since they refer to it as FDNY EMS, why does it say "FDNY Ambulance"?

Maybe it's just FDNY. And the "Ambulance" part of it is up there for state/city specs or maybe KKK? I don't know, I'm no expert in the KKK standard.

[PEMO3 523]

Does not appear to be much longer than a haz tac or rescue medic bus.

Photo credit: firedude

Edited September 27, 2011 by PEMO3

[firedude 985]

This has been talked about on these forums before. Such as here and here. What happened to not starting a disusion in a photo thread?

Does not appear to be much longer than a haz tac or rescue medic bus.

Where did you find that image? off google I suppose? It's mine, but you can use it for this purpose only. If you don't trust me, its the same photo I posted back in 2010 (proof)

It also has rear blue lights, not sure about the front light bar though.

There are no foward-facing blue lights, just rear-facing. They are located on the top rear lightbar. But lets not get into a blue light discusion. Nice picture by the way.

Edited September 27, 2011 by firedude

[haligan34 0]

They went with the fourth door because we have our own bunker gear and gas mask that has to be accessible at all times. We can really use them we still have 97's and 2000's floating around with 200,000 miles on them easily. We can't wait for them!

[MyFyrtrks 15]

Dodge was never noted for having a stellar frame rail system. Maybe it has changed.

[firefighter59 20]

This has been talked about on these forums before. Such as here and here. What happened to not starting a disusion in a photo thread?

Where did you find that image? off google I suppose? It's mine, but you can use it for this purpose only. If you don't trust me, its the same photo I posted back in 2010 (proof)

should I call you a wambulance

There are no foward-facing blue lights, just rear-facing. They are located on the top rear lightbar. But lets not get into a blue light discusion. Nice picture by the way.

[Guest ME4]

They went with the fourth door because we have our own bunker gear and gas mask that has to be accessible at all times.

Sound like typical FDNY Logic.

Bigger is not always better. Bigger in NYC is not a good thing.

And lets not even get into why all of a sudden NYC EMS needs bunker gear that EMS seemed to operate just fine without for decades.

Going to 4 door ambulances in NYC to accomodate bunker gear is ridiculous.

[IzzyEng4 427]

They went with the fourth door because we have our own bunker gear and gas mask that has to be accessible at all times.

Sound like typical FDNY Logic.

Bigger is not always better. Bigger in NYC is not a good thing.

And lets not even get into why all of a sudden NYC EMS needs bunker gear that EMS seemed to operate just fine without for decades.

Going to 4 door ambulances in NYC to accommodate bunker gear is ridiculous.

So if FDNY EMS it required by their protocols to have turnout gear due to countless hazards at fires, hazmat situations, ect. they can possibly encounter, where you going to put it on the rig? In the compartment with the backboards, next to the size M O2 tank, in the patient compartment? There is hardly any room on some of the newer ambulances in regards to compartment space for gear storage.

Yah maybe they were fine the past few decades with out running gear but this in now, ten years ago was history and you should learn from history. That's like say a cop is better off with a six shot revolver than a 10 to 15 shot clip in a semi-auto pistol because they worked fine with it for decades.

Just because your agency is fine with what you run and how you run, then that's fine, also an opinion is fine. There is some things that other places that don't sit well with me either, but hey, that's what they want and need. However the City has their ways of operating just like any other agency we are all involved with. They realized a reason for the new design and maybe it works for them. Plus they are hell of a lot more prone to other hazards everyday the East Bumble-dump.

(Sorry realized my spelling sucks still).

Edited October 6, 2011 by IzzyEng4

[Guest ME4]

So if FDNY EMS it required by their protocols to have turnout gear due to countless hazards at fires, hazmat situations, ect. they can possibly encounter, where you going to put it on the rig? In the compartment with the backboards, next to the size M O2 tank, in the patient compartment? There is hardly any room on some of the newer ambulances in regards to compartment space for gear storage.

Yah maybe they were fine the past few decades with out running gear but this in now, ten years ago was history and you should learn from history. That's like say a cop is better off with a six shot revolver than a 10 to 15 shot clip in a semi-auto pistol because they worked fine with it for decades.

Who wrote the protocols?

There are many self serving protocols written by those who benefit from them.

I am pretty sure there is space in the current ambulance design to incorporate a space for turnout gear and masks at virtually no additional cost before a vehicle is ordered with 4 doors at a great added cost and loss of maneuverability in NYC of all places.

The cop analogy doesn't match up. Going from a six shooter to a semi auto didn't add any great weight or change the dimensions of a cops holster.

If the solution for six shooters was going from a six shooter to a shotgun in a holster on your hip I'd feel the same way.

Ordering a 4 door ambulance to accommodate bunker gear is ridiculous.

It reminds of the countless FDs that have ordered apparatus that does not fit into the firehouse or under railroad tracks or highway overpasses in the towns these rigs serve in.

[FireMedic049 597]

Who wrote the protocols?

There are many self serving protocols written by those who benefit from them.

So are you saying that a protocol that requires FDNY EMS personnel to have their protective gear readily accessible and to wear it in hazardous situations is "self-serving"?

I am pretty sure there is space in the current ambulance design to incorporate a space for turnout gear and masks at virtually no additional cost before a vehicle is ordered with 4 doors at a great added cost and loss of maneuverability in NYC of all places.

I'm pretty sure that you'd be wrong. I have a hard time believing that FDNY EMS would move to 4-door chassis if their current ambulance module design could adequately accommodate their gear.

Do you realize that their previous "regular" ambulance spec uses what is pretty much the smallest module that Horton makes (Model 403 which is a 137" x 96" body).

Something else to bear in mind. While the 4-door chassis will obviously turn worse than the 2-door chassis, FDNY Ladders and Tower Ladders are much bigger than these ambulances and they seem to be able to make their way to their calls.

It reminds of the countless FDs that have ordered apparatus that does not fit into the firehouse or under railroad tracks or highway overpasses in the towns these rigs serve in.

It may remind you, but it's not the same thing.

[Goose 188]

I thought the crew cabs were ordered so that crews could recline a bit more when 89?

[x635 4,066]

I thought the crew cabs were ordered so that crews could recline a bit more when 89?

Sadly, I would highly doubt FDNY would spec that. That's like saying shift change points are "Stations". LOL.

And it's not good to have your turnout gear in the cab in such a confined space. But I guess firefighters do it.

[Bnechis 3,961]

And lets not even get into why all of a sudden NYC EMS needs bunker gear that EMS seemed to operate just fine without for decades.

Maybe "all of a sudden" they realized its required under NYS Dept. of Labor Law CFR 1910.132

Going to 4 door ambulances in NYC to accomodate bunker gear is ridiculous.

I would think that if the reason was just for this, it would have been better to add a compartment like the haz tech units.

[MCD87 0]

ME4, while I agree with you bigger is not always better we are very much in need of a vehicle with more storage space. We have had quite a bit of new equipment added and old equipment changed and it is almost impossible to find a place for it in the existing vehicles.

[ny10570 745]

Just to expand on what MCD87 posted, after 9/11 many lessons were learned. One is that EMS had no equipment capable of properly protecting them for operations in that type of environment. The same applied to much more typical incidents, MVAs, structure fires, construction accidents, etc. As Capt Nechis pointed out NFP requires protection for all hazards we face and for years it just wasn't addressed. We had a jacket and helmet. Hardly the all hazards protection required. As an added bonus the new PPE allows all members to operate in the warm zone of a hazmat incident bringing more hands to provide patient care and allowing us to safely transport critical patients not fully contaminated to medical facilities with decon stations. Maybe the gear is overkill (flash protection without airway protection seems pointless to me) but its what we have. BLS units have no problem securing all of the equipment. ALS now that we're carrying our cold saline coolers have zero free space. My truck is as stripped as possible, but between our fisher price snow shovels and sked removing the scoop is actually dangerous. In the patient compartment it is now impossible to secure all of our bags, and our WMD mark 1 kits are either locked up and stuffed in without our spare drugs or stuffed behind a difficult to remove trauma bag about 6' off the ground. Its nearly impossible for shorter members to get to.

The haztac style extra compartment was considered, but the extra space it offered while substantial would be under utilized. Going with the crew cab gives us more options for patient family transport, a better seat for ride alongs(currently to converse with the crew up front ride alongs end up in a very dangerous position were there a collision), and keeps our gear within reach. Were we to roll up on that chemical or biological incident we can at least mask up before retreating to properly prepare to enter the scene.

As for the safety of storing our gear in the passenger compartment, we are not regularly exposed to the toxins and carcinogens that bunker gear is exposed to. Still not ideal, but its better than what we have now.

Edited October 7, 2011 by ny10570

[prucha25 76]

As per the ops guide we need to carry our APR's with us at all times, even in the crew compartment. The reasoning is that if we respond to any sort of explosion ( bus, train, building, etc) we would have our APRS in our reach prior to having to get out and breathe what potentially could be a CBRN attack. While you may think our turnout gear is " ridiculous " or " self serving" remember that NYC is the number one terrorist target in the WORLD, and every borough is different then another. I have had glass from a fire fall on me from 3 blocks away before, and I was happy I was wearing my gear at the time.

[x635 4,066]

Why doesn't FDNY try redesigning it's module? (side note: Putting EMS instead of "Ambulance") I've heard it's basically stayed the same for numerous years. I've also seen other agencies modules adapt the the growing tools that the Paramedics carry without neccesarily changing the size. I don't know how things work as far as ambulance design, but maybe this is something that needs to be studied with input from the people who use them everyday.

There are a lot of new concepts out there, and Wheeled Coach, despites it's reputation, builds expensive ambulances as well, especially when they are custom. Since they are now owned by the same company as Horton, there's going to be some mergers in the next few years. And the Horton modules were strong, I bet they could have refurb'd and remounted onto a new chasis every two years. Newark, NJ runs justs as much and just as hard as FDNY, and when I was there, they used Excellance modules that had been remounted three or four times. That's a brand I wish I saw more of.

There is even a negative pressure concept I know one manufacturer is working on.

It's not even about making it easier to access the needed supplies and room to carry more supplies, it's about crews lives. Have a compartment dedicated to that.

And I don't think FDNY*EMS is turnout gear, per say. I think it is protective clothing, like is standard now with many agencies at fire scenes, traffic incidents, etc

I know of busy EMS agencies, that carry a lot more equipment then FDNY, that have compartments like this. Some cities even inlcude lockers for personal items. Given, this is a firefighter staffed ambulance, but I have seen this in other ambulances as well.

.

[ny10570 745]

No one is arguing that we look ridiculous standing there in our PPE while cops, firefighters, and everyone else on scene walk around closer to the incident wearing much less. That is an ego thing where our chief loved being able to clearly see ems members in his gear at incidents on the web and in the news.

The gear is overkill for the average incident but its designed for the next major disaster.

The module is largely unchanged since at least 97. Some minor changes over the years were longboards going vertically, sharps container relocated, etc. Larger changes like utilizing more of the ceiling space have been discussed but discarded as they didn't free up enough space. We also pay a space penalty in our electronics cabinet. Everything is designed to be immediately reachable and able to be replaced in the field. This results in a lot of dead space. I'm not saying the space couldn't be found with the current chassis but any time you do something by committee you end up with a compromise. At least this compromise benefits the members without a substantial added cost to the taxpayer.

For simplicity sake especially when it comes to spare vehicles and running extra units both BLS and ALS have identical boxes.

On a personal note the two door fords are now too small with the larger engine compartments for the new diesel emissions controls. If you're tall or fat 8 hours is rough and 16 nothing short of torture.

The ambulances say ambulance because we reuse ambulances as a variety of other vehicles. Changing it isn't going to change the public from thinking were firefighters. Even with paramedic plastered on my chest and back they call me firefighter or officer.

The specs are very specific concerning structural integrity. No matter who builds it, it will be heavy and strong. Remount every 2 years?! The replacement plan is 5 years front line and 5 years spare. My current truck is an early 2004 with 79,000 miles mostly in Manhattan all brutal stop and go. A long highway run is from south to 30th on the FDR. Remounts occur but usually to bolster a depleted spare fleet.

Our gear is essentially bunker gear with a vapor barrier instead of thermal protection. I believe morning pride markets it as USAR PPE.

[NWFDMedic 58]

As an added bonus the new PPE allows all members to operate in the warm zone of a hazmat incident bringing more hands to provide patient care and allowing us to safely transport critical patients not fully contaminated to medical facilities with decon stations.

What part of turnout gear allows you to operate in the warm zone of a hazmat incident?

[ny10570 745]

What part of turnout gear allows you to operate in the warm zone of a hazmat incident?

The gear, gloves, and boots are NFPA 1992 complaint for chemical and hazmat protection. Combined with our APRs we're deemed to be adequately protected for operations in the warm zone.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The gear, gloves, and boots are NFPA 1992 complaint for chemical and hazmat protection. Combined with our APRs we're deemed to be adequately protected for operations in the warm zone.

Would not that depend on the chemical involved. No turnout gear and no CPC (chemical protective clothing) work for every product.

[ny10570 745]

Would not that depend on the chemical involved. No turnout gear and no CPC (chemical protective clothing) work for every product.

True, there are limitations to any garment, however before this PPE we had nothing and our protection was strictly for escape.