NYPD has Ability to Take Down Aircraft

[firedude 985]

Very interesting. Glad to see it.

NYPD's Kelly says cops could take down an aircraft

By PHIL HELSEL

Last Updated: 6:06 PM, September 25, 2011

Posted: 5:59 PM, September 25, 2011

The NYPD now has anti-aircraft capability. New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly tells "60 Minutes" that the NYPD has "some means to take down a plane" in what he termed an "extreme situation," during an interview tonight on CBS, according to a transcript of the exchange.

Full Article from the NY Post

[v85 212]

Yet this is the same NYPD that is still using typewriters for reports, has some violent precincts covered by 2 or 3 sectors, and has stationhouses falling apart???

[grumpyff 1,159]

He will use the same smoke and mirrors used on crime stats to confuse the pilots into landing their aircraft. This is the same job that refuses to give Tazers to front line patrol officers, resisted 9mm handguns, dragged its feet with extendable batons, and took flash bang grenades away from ESU. I fully expect his plan to be the 600 cops asigned to the WTC command to stand on each others shoulders until they reach the height of the aircraft were upon the top officer will politely ask the pilot of said plane to land at the earliest convenience, or else said officer will loose 10 vacation days.

[YogruntNy 21]

He will use the same smoke and mirrors used on crime stats to confuse the pilots into landing their aircraft. This is the same job that refuses to give Tazers to front line patrol officers, resisted 9mm handguns, dragged its feet with extendable batons, and took flash bang grenades away from ESU. I fully expect his plan to be the 600 cops asigned to the WTC command to stand on each others shoulders until they reach the height of the aircraft were upon the top officer will politely ask the pilot of said plane to land at the earliest convenience, or else said officer will loose 10 vacation days.

ha, so true on many levels....but on the other hand, alot of things happen behind closed doors that many ppl (including cops) dont know about.

Edited September 26, 2011 by YogruntNy

[AJL 0]

This is a little scarey. Who gets to decide to shoot, the Mayor or the Commissioner? And imagine if they are wrong, imagine the lawsuits. To shoot down a plane needs to stay with the military with the proper command authority. For once I think the NYPD and city is going a little to far. Usually fully support NYPD on the things they do, but not this.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I wanna know who the lucky SOB is who gets to train on Surface-to-Air Missiles down at Floyd Bennett Field and how I get his job. Either that or NYPD just added some fighter jets to its aviation fleet.

All kidding aside, I have no idea what the capabilities are or anything like that but I would be hard pressed to believe that there are too many options for bringing down a jetliner over the 5 boros.

Edited September 26, 2011 by SRS131EMTFF

[aviator70 16]

Not a chance. The military can not even shot down any aircraft without an express verbal authority and approval from the President. While the military has been given some leeway in making this decision without approval, I can tell you there is not a chance in hell that the NYPD has any authority. Think of this, where would that aircraft, or its parts, land if it was shot down over NYC??? Sorry, the ramifications would be like ones we have never seen before. Leave the job where it falls at, the military, not the NYPD.

[grumpyff 1,159]

For those familiar with TheeRant (formerly the NYPD Rant) here is a link to a pretty good parody of NYPD operations orders. The fictional Operation King Kong http://theerant.yuku.com/topic/42456/Operation-King-Kong-new-procedure-regarding-opening--new-WTC#.Tn_EP3iXv68

[38ff 250]

MANPADS for the NYPD... Or do they have Avengers painted blue?

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

He was pretty vague when pressed by the reporter, as well he should be. You don't want to give away the company secrets. I doubt that PD has anti air missile batteries in place throughout Manhattan. What he more likely means is that they have the training/capability to "take down" or assault an airplane sitting on the tarmac but I could be wrong.

I remember hearing rumors years ago that they were test firing .50 caliber machine guns from their helicopters but for all I know it was only rumor.

[v85 212]

I think that there needs to be a full investigation into this. Specifically:

1. Who in the federal government gave the NYPD the authority for this

2. Who issues the orders

3. Were funds diverted from other, more traditional and legal, areas of the NYPD, for this project

The next question, is should anything be done (ie. impeachment or removal from office)

Just as an aside, maybe the ONLY possible time it would be acceptable for a civilian LE agency to use something like this is if the President has issued the shoot-down order, and the fighters are too far away , but even then it is problematic.

The .50 cal thing was also mentioned on a previous TV special about the NYPD, so it may be more than a rumor. Maybe that is what they are talking about.

Edited September 26, 2011 by v85

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Yeah I must have slept through the CSPAN episode where Congress gave the Commissioner of the NYPD National Command Authority to shoot down civilian aircraft... Knew I should have paid closer attention in American Government...

[Bnechis 3,961]

I wanna know who the lucky SOB is who gets to train on Surface-to-Air Missiles down at Floyd Bennett Field and how I get his job. Either that or NYPD just added some fighter jets to its aviation fleet.

Since LAPD has a fighter Jet, its possable for NYPD to have one also.

Joe Friday: Ah, sure, but just like every other foaming, rabid psycho in this city with a foolproof plan, you've forgotten you're facing the single finest fighting force ever assembled.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Probably not .50 cal, but I'm pretty sure our snipers have practiced from helicopters given the number high rise buildings in the city.

[Stench60 29]

I know what the secret weapon is......

[voltage1256 42]

No need to worry, T.S.A. is doing a fantastic job and has tightened its security! This is fresh off airliners.net :

"Dallas hairstylist Isis Brantley was shocked when TSA agents came up to her on the platform of the interterminal train at the Atlanta airport and told her they needed to check her Afro for drugs and explosives. TSA hair checks aren't unheard of, but they are invasive, and this is certainly the first case we've heard of a search so far from security. The TSA claims that Ms. Brantley simply walked off before her security screening was over, and that they offered to take her to a private area for the pat down, but Brantley disputes both those claims."

Transportation Security Administration: Causing Americans a Hardship one Screening at a Time.

Edited September 26, 2011 by voltage1256

[helicopper 1,050]

Not a chance. The military can not even shot down any aircraft without an express verbal authority and approval from the President. While the military has been given some leeway in making this decision without approval, I can tell you there is not a chance in hell that the NYPD has any authority. Think of this, where would that aircraft, or its parts, land if it was shot down over NYC??? Sorry, the ramifications would be like ones we have never seen before. Leave the job where it falls at, the military, not the NYPD.

Can you cite your source for this requirement?

Yeah I must have slept through the CSPAN episode where Congress gave the Commissioner of the NYPD National Command Authority to shoot down civilian aircraft... Knew I should have paid closer attention in American Government...

Where is the law/regulation that limits the authority to the feds?

[v85 212]

I didn't mean it to sound like a conspiracy theory, just I wasn't too sure on the legality of it. But now I'm even questioning that. Would an incident like that be covered under Article 35 (use of deadly force to protect a third party, people in a building or on the ground, from imminent harm, or no, because of the number of non-involved persons on the aircraft.

[16fire5 693]

Can you cite your source for this requirement?

“The authority to shoot down a civilian aircraft is delegated to a very small number of very senior officials, civilian and military, within the Department of Defense,” McHale said.

http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/Dont-Cross-That-Line.html?c=y&page=1

[wraftery 1,275]

I think I would trust a trained NYPD officer with a sidewinder more than I would trust Barack Obama.

At least the cop passed a background check.

Just sayin'

Edited September 26, 2011 by wraftery

[firedude 985]

Here is the interview...

It's a great video!

Edited September 26, 2011 by firedude

[INIT915 1,119]

Can you cite your source for this requirement?

As you know Chris, when any inherently technical legal issue arises, we see 100% opinion and rumor, and generally no facts.

[Just a guy 493]

I have just read the articles in which the commissioner makes the claim to have this capability. First off, he wouldn't say it if he didn't have it because that would mean his job. Second, if they have it then the feds already know about it and acknowledge the need for it.... the NYPD isn't going to and could not purchase S.A.M.S. or anti aircraft batteries without the knowledge of the armed forces.

I would hate to think that we would ever get to that point again where we would have to consider shooting down an aircraft but I am glad to know that the capability exists to do so if needed... this is a sad reality of the world we live in but it is what it is and we have to deal with it

[xfirefighter484x 234]

This thread has been purged of off-topic, back and forth bantering.

Keep your personal issues in PM's (FYI the P in PM stands for PERSONAL Message).

[grumpyff 1,159]

Article in todays NY Post.

http://m.nypost.com/f/mobile/news/local/kelly_nypd_can_take_down_planes_0LjFbzyfLD4iWLAvvpe0jK

Sources claim it is a .50 caliber Barrett, secured in a safe. While the the Department owns it and takes it out for "special occassions" my guess no chief has the courage to order its use, or if it is used, back the cop who is unlucky enough to use it. Lt Pigottt, need I say more.

This whole piece was just a way for Kelly to stroke his ego. The man is a legend in his own mind.

Edited September 26, 2011 by grumpyff

[helicopper 1,050]

Yeah I must have slept through the CSPAN episode where Congress gave the Commissioner of the NYPD National Command Authority to shoot down civilian aircraft... Knew I should have paid closer attention in American Government...

Authority for the military to take such action would have to come from the President but we're not talking about the military so I don't think Congress has any jurisdiction.

The NYPD has the authority to protect its citizens within NYC so I'm not sure what all the hype is about.

[38ff 250]

MANPADS or an Avenger is quite different that a .50 Cal Sniper rifle as far as knockdown capability.

[helicopper 1,050]

I think that there needs to be a full investigation into this. Specifically:

1. Who in the federal government gave the NYPD the authority for this

2. Who issues the orders

3. Were funds diverted from other, more traditional and legal, areas of the NYPD, for this project

The next question, is should anything be done (ie. impeachment or removal from office)

Just as an aside, maybe the ONLY possible time it would be acceptable for a civilian LE agency to use something like this is if the President has issued the shoot-down order, and the fighters are too far away , but even then it is problematic.

The .50 cal thing was also mentioned on a previous TV special about the NYPD, so it may be more than a rumor. Maybe that is what they are talking about.

Full investigation? Of what and by whom? To what purpose?

Who has to give the NYPD the authority to do anything besides the Mayor and City Council? Diversion of funds? "More traditional and legal areas of the NYPD"? You think something is illegal? As for the tradition remark, should we also villify the PC that authorized the change to semi-automatic pistols to replace the revolver or gave ESU M-4's and MP-5's to replace outdated weapons systems?

Impeach/remove who from office and for what?

I'd be very hestitant to use the word ONLY in a sentence about the necessity to employ deadly physical force.

The NYPD has been extremely proactive since September 11th and has, on numerous occasions, stated that it will not rely on the federal government exclusively to protect its citizenry. Why is this any different than that?

For all we really know, the NYPD plan could be to launch flocks of kamikaze geese from city parks to take down the plane like flight 1549. Seriously folks, we're getting all worked about rhetoric.

[helicopper 1,050]

"The authority to shoot down a civilian aircraft is delegated to a very small number of very senior officials, civilian and military, within the Department of Defense," McHale said.

http://www.airspacem...html?c=y&page=1

Thank you for making the effort to cite something to support these statements. However, in context, this statement is referring to the authority for military assets to take such action. It doesn't speak to the use of force by law enforcement or other federal agencies.

Your source is also an article, not a law or regulation so it still has not been established that there is a law prohibiting the NYPD from taking such action.

[JBE 328]

I'm wondering when they will just come out with a Blue Thunder type helicopter complete with Sidewinders. IMHO, they probably have a couple of Stingers or some form of portable SAM system.