Lending Of Spare Apparatus

[HFD23 37]

E902, a reserve engine on loan from the City of Yonkers acting as a Larchmont Engine was 2nd due.

i was just wondering if they were paid combination or volunteer based upon the fact yonkers had lent them a rig.. does any one know the specifics of this loan or more detials about it?

no offense ment to any one, i was just wondering, caz yonkers isn;t the most volunteer friendly...

[LFD171 0]

We have borrowed this engine now for a second time in the last 6 months. We have had some major apparatus problems of late, with 2 of our three engines and the ladder OOS at the same time for weeks at a time due to various mechanical problems and small accidents. At one point in October, we began calling other Westchester departments frantically looking for someone to loan us an engine.

The only two takers were Yonkers and FDNY. The city actually offered to lend us an engine and a tiller. Yonkers, however, was an easier deal. We again have one of their reserve engines, known by it's shop number (902.) It was once Engine 309.

[Guest Lieutenant6474]

I think it sucks... In a county with so much money and so much apparatus redundency that there were no takers to lend you guys an engine. All it takes is for you guys to insure the rig and send your MPO's up to the department that is lending the rig for an evening of training on it.... In much poorer, cash strapped parts of our nation, where FF's have to hold bingo night on Friday's and a carnival for weeks every summer just to buy a new rig every 30 years, they are willing to lend spare (or redundant) apparatus to neighbors in need. You should publish a list of the municipalities that turned you down.

[x635 4,066]

Should've gotten the FDNY tiller too, now that would be cool! lol

[Guest RBFD2]

It does suck. But how many departments actually have spare aparatus to lend anyone? There has to be more legal issues then just insuring the apparatus.

[LFD171 0]

We ran into trouble with several districts who had to get approval from their board of fire commisioners before they could lend us a rig. Most of these boards would only hear such motions at their monthly meetings. Because we needed one as an emergency, we could not wait.

Mamaroneck Village had offered us their spare, E39, but they had to put that rig into unexpected long term sevice when one of their line rigs, E42, went out for months with various problems. We did not contact everyone in the county. Thus, Yonkers and FDNY came up.

If anyone does have available engines, I would love to know for the future. Yonkers has been very generous, but even they might get tired of us coming to them again and again.

[61MACKBR1 222]

That is great news that the City of Yonkers (YFD) was able to lend you one of their spare Engines. I know that the Old Engine 309 is a reliable rig as it was just replaced by a New ALF Eagle. The Old 309 (Mack CF) was a first line rig that has been kept up well. I know that Yonkers has at least 4 to 5 Spare Rigs currently, using 2 as front line spares, with the other 2 or 3 as reserves. Sometimes Yonkers takes a bad rap as not being Volunteer Friendly (given that it is a paid department). But, when the chips are down, YFD does come through. How did you like the Old Engine 309??? (How did it perform?)

[LFD171 0]

It looks pretty beaten up, but it starts and goes when it's needed.....which is more than can be said for our engines. Thanks again Yonkers, we appreciate it.

[HFD23 37]

ya, i am glad to hear that in a time of need they were so help full... but i also understand where some departments in westchester couldn;t lend out rigs many have no spares... our ladder is currently out of servious, we are running 2173 a spare chiefs car with a plow as or truck with all the truck equipment in it... GFD ladder 4 is on primary standby but as with a alarm today in a occupied high rise dwelling we automaticlly get a 3rd engine usually Greenville engine 150... in this case we got ladder 4 GFD and laDDer 1 FFD... thanks to our neighbors for their help in our time of need...

[chris498 31]

Listen, if I were a chief and I had a spare engine to lend to a neighboring department in a time of need, I would. But I agree in a lot of cases, the ability to ways on a lot of factors..... does the insurance cover such a move for a long period of time? Do we have a back up rig that could be lent out for a long period of time??? And I agree that there are a lot of departments whose intentions might be good, but simply cannot spare a rig for plain reason of leaving themselves under-protected. I'm not trying to make excusses here either.... I'm just saying that to lambast all of LFD neighbors for not being able to help would be unfair because of the large numbers of variables that way into the equation here.

By the way..... which units are broken again and what is wrong with them?

[HFD23 37]

side note.. Tl-15 is back in service... as of 19:00hrs tonite

[x635 4,066]

side note.. Tl-15 is back in service... as of 19:00hrs tonite

I hope TL-15 was OOS getting remounted onto a Seagrave or Pierce chasis and painted red. Or magically transformed into a 105' RM Pierce striaght stick quint.

[DRD 0]

E35 and TL7 are OOS

[61MACKBR1 222]

Actually, Yonkers FD Rig E902 was the Old Engine Company 308. If it is old Yonkers FD Engine 309, it is E903) Pictures of both of these "Spare Rigs" that Yonkers has lent (E902 - meaning it was the 2nd Rig purchased by the Yonkers Fire Department in 1990; and E903 meaning that it was the 3rd Rig purchased by YFD in 1990) can be found on:

http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/other...ate/Yonkers.htm

Can you reconfirm if it was the Old Engine 309 or the Old Engine 308, based on these 2 Photos? Both of these rigs are Old 1990 Mack CF's

[Guest Lieutenant6474]

Loans can be made. It just requires a little work... Like commissioners actually calling an emergency meeting to help neighbors out... Insurance policies to cover loans are available if you need them. YES departments have rig's to lend.... there is more redundant apparatus in this county than you can shake a stick at... Examples of places that could do it with out really hurting the overall fire protection of their district.... and there's a lot more than just these:

Mt. Kisco 4 engines 2 trucks

Mohegan 7 or so engines, Telesquirt, 2 Quints

Ossining 5 or so engines, 2 trucks

Briarcliff 3 engines

Pleasantville 3 or so engines

Chappaqua 3 engines (and now a bucket Quint too)

Millwood 2 engines (three with the Telesquirt) Tanker pumper

Yorktown 3 or 4 engines

Now lets think about how many times we go to a job and all apparatus from a dept is being used and fully staffed. That last engine in is usually driver only or low on staffing anyway and sits a 1/4 mile from the scene behind all the charged LDH that is blocking it.

Many Westchester dept.s... If they want to lend... No one said that it's easy... It takes a night to train the borrowing dept, commissioners (whoever's in charge) has to have a special meeting and someone's gotta review an insurance policy.

[Truck4 48]

Are there any temp. LFD markings on the engine?

[LFD171 0]

No temporary markings are on it. We are also using it's inventory number (902) to call the rig. Hopefully, it won't have to call 60 Control, as 902 isn't on any apparatus lists.

Upon further reveiw of the Yonkers section of FDNY Trucks, I see that it is actually the former 308, not 309. Good eyes Yonkers R3. As soon as this site gets back up, I'll post a picture of the rig sitting IFO our HQ.

[61MACKBR1 222]

I look forward to seeing the photo of the Old Engine 308 housed in Larchmont. Does it still have the Old 308 markings on the rig?

[EMTbravo 312]

Photo of the former YFD E-308 in Larchmont now posted at EMTBravo.com

[RES20CUE 40]

Yes I agree, there are plenty of Dept's out there that have "spare" apparatus. Why? because it's required by ISO just for problems like Larchmont is experiencing.

Every department has it's apparatus problems, some expected, some not.

It suppose be up to each Departments Chiefs and Commissioners (or Town/Village/City) to ensure that the Dept has what it needs to protect it's area. This should include "Spare" apparatus!

Not to beat up on Larchmont, but E-35 is a 1960 something Mack- I could be wrong, but from I understand is that the Tank has been rotted out for years, and was only used for hose and a pump (??). Obviously, this rig should have been replaced many years ago. Even if a dept has to buy a used piece to utilize as a spare, this should be done. What happens if 1 of the 2 Engines Larchmont has operating right now breaks down or is in an accident? The Rescue, though reliable, can't fight a fire!

[Truck4 48]

News 12 tried to do a story about this last weekend, focusing on the fact that one of the wealthiest communities in Westchester has such a delapidated Fire Department. They wanted to ask the mayor, who is up for re-election, about the fact that they had to borrow a fire truck with no plans for a replacement. The story fell through because no one from any aspect of the FD would speak about it. It seemed like a pretty good opportunity wasted.

[x635 4,066]

I wonder if fear of political reprocussions or other untoward actions on the part of the FD could have played a factor in this?

[DRD 0]

No comment... enough said. lol

[msm232 69]

There are some other factors that go into borrowing spare apparatus that has not been discussed like the fact that most of the Sound Shore Fire Departments such as Larchmont have special Hydrant and Hose threads (New York Corp) Right away you limit a majority of fire departments out side that immediate area. And New York Corp Threads are different then FDNY threads as so many departments found out during the 9-11 event. This is a major issue in the Northeast and the fire service as a whole is trying to address interoperability issue.

keep you head down and stay safe.

[mfc2257 464]

MSM232 you make a good point about the problems with thread differences from one municipality to another, but it shouldn't be a limiting factor in lending apparatus. Briarcliff and Millwood have different threads, but we work together all the time. At the Kings college fire, E-247 successfully hit a Briarcliff hydrant and laid 900 feet of 5in to the building. We have adaptors. SO if someone had odd threads and needed to borrow a rig, you'd have to shop around for adaptors.

I'm with some of the others on this one... If a FD really wanted to lend a rig they easily could without incurring much or any risk at all through the use of a seperate insurance policy provided by the borrowing department.

The problem is that people tend to look for reasons NOT to lend when the request comes to them instead of finding a way to make it work.