Fatal TSP Crash 9/8/11

[MoFire390 118]

hey all found the article about the crash this morning on the TSP in Putnam.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110908/NEWS01/109080402/Doctor-from-Chappaqua-killed-freak-accident-Taconic-Putnam-Valley?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

[x635 4,066]

When you have an accident in that stretch, where are you supposed to go? You are basically trapped, even if you stay in your car. That portion of the Taconic was never built for the traffic it currently sees, and has been obsolete for years.

I also always wondered how first reponders get to the scene if both lanes are blocked and stopped?

[mfc2257 464]

When you have an accident in that stretch, where are you supposed to go? You are basically trapped, even if you stay in your car. That portion of the Taconic was never built for the traffic it currently sees, and has been obsolete for years.

I also always wondered how first reponders get to the scene if both lanes are blocked and stopped?

There is very little you can do in such a confined space... The safest thing would have been to walk southbound in the northbound lane toward traffic along the shoulder until the treeline began again to avoid exactly what happened which was being struck by his own vehicle.

Same thing at a train crossing... run toward the train not away from it so that when it strikes your vehicle it doesn't land on you.

[psyanide 11]

It appears to be the same exact rock wall as where they filmed the chase scene in Die Hard 3. That is one tightly confined piece of road.

Item #3 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112864/trivia

While the highway scenes are supposed to take place on the Saw Mill Parkway in Westchester County, NY, they were actually filmed on the Merritt Parkway in Fairfield County, Connecticut, and on the Taconic Parkway in Putnam County, NY.

Edited September 13, 2011 by xfirefighter484x

[x1243 141]

There is very little you can do in such a confined space... The safest thing would have been to walk southbound in the northbound lane toward traffic along the shoulder until the treeline began again to avoid exactly what happened which was being struck by his own vehicle.

Same thing at a train crossing... run toward the train not away from it so that when it strikes your vehicle it doesn't land on you.

Dr Xie was a great guy, very funny doctor who loved being in the US.

Also he was not hit by his own vehicle, he was hit by a on-coming vehicle.

[mfc2257 464]

Dr Xie was a great guy, very funny doctor who loved being in the US.

Also he was not hit by his own vehicle, he was hit by a on-coming vehicle.

Sorry I miss read the LoHud article and thought it said that she struck his vehicle which in turn struck him.... I've re read to see that she struck his vehicle and then him.

[PVFD113 6]

When you have an accident in that stretch, where are you supposed to go? You are basically trapped, even if you stay in your car. That portion of the Taconic was never built for the traffic it currently sees, and has been obsolete for years.

I also always wondered how first reponders get to the scene if both lanes are blocked and stopped?

As it does happen more frequently the past few years, after traffic going in the direction of travel has been confirmed stopped completely by PD or Fire units on scene, the apparatus is generally directed to enter the parkway from the next access and head the opposite direction of the designated direction of travel - in this case--traffic in the NB lanes was shut completely South of Peekskill Hollow Rd. Apparatus would then enter (after confirmed closed) at PHR and proceed cautiously South in the NB lane. If no units are o/l, generally the first unit would head (in this case) South in the SB lane to size up the scene and close confirmcorfirm no traffic flow.

[x635 4,066]

Thanks, Adam. How tight is it a fit for the apparatus to get to the scene and get equipment mobilized? Does the tight working area ever pose challenges?

Does PVFD have a special unit for this, or just an engine and rescue?

[MoFire390 118]

its very tight the bosses @ my job dont even want our rigs on the northernend of the TSP.

seth i believe the send an engine and their rescue if i remember correctly. i believe both are out of station 2 on peekskill hollow rd just west of the pudding st intersection

[x1243 141]

its very tight the bosses @ my job dont even want our rigs on the northernend of the TSP.

seth i believe the send an engine and their rescue if i remember correctly. i believe both are out of station 2 on peekskill hollow rd just west of the pudding st intersection

I was going to say that has to be a mess down there......

I say even if Dr Xie was still in his vehicle it probably would have been the same outcome unfortunately.

The average spped ther eis what 115mph... Ok exaggerating a little but what 60 or 70 mph.

RIP Dr Xie....

[MoFire390 118]

I was going to say that has to be a mess down there......

I say even if Dr Xie was still in his vehicle it probably would have been the same outcome unfortunately.

The average spped ther eis what 115mph... Ok exaggerating a little but what 60 or 70 mph.

RIP Dr Xie....

I think ur right about that 115 mph... i dont get why people are in such a rush...i hate when i get passed with red lights and siren on and im doing 70...its like really people what emergency do u have to go to

[helicopper 1,050]

I say even if Dr Xie was still in his vehicle it probably would have been the same outcome unfortunately.

The average spped ther eis what 115mph... Ok exaggerating a little but what 60 or 70 mph.

I respectfully disagree. The vehicle collision was survivable. The outcome was a result of the doctor being struck by a vehicle; an exponentially more dangerous scenario than being the occupant of a vehicle with airbags, seatbelts, and crumple zones.

This is a tragic accident but the speeds in this case were not excessive.

[x1243 141]

I respectfully disagree. The vehicle collision was survivable. The outcome was a result of the doctor being struck by a vehicle; an exponentially more dangerous scenario than being the occupant of a vehicle with airbags, seatbelts, and crumple zones.

This is a tragic accident but the speeds in this case were not excessive.

Helicopper, I hear you, however I have been telling my wife who worked with him that if he had I feel that he would have had the same outcome. As what if's and rumors and questions swirrel in heis office, I just want to give them as much closure as possibe. I am just thinking a t-bone on the parkway at god knows what speed..... We can all sit here and think or Monday morning quarterback but unfortunately what is done is done and we lost a dam good doctor. Not saying that if this was any joe blow motorist would have been different, as it sucks everytime.....

just my 2 cents as with the economy these days that is all that I can afford.

[jack10562 414]

While the speeds might not have been excessive under ideal conditions, at the time of the accident due to the wet roads even going under the speed limit may have been excessive, contributing to a loss of control.

[smwells 7]

This occurred in my district. I personally would take my chances of getting hit by staying in my vehicle over standing on the non-existent shoulder in that area. Multiple accidents came in for that stretch due to the weather/road conditions that morning.

People that travel that stretch regularly should already be aware and slow down, but most ignore the conditions and cant risk getting to work 5 minutes later.

[PVFD113 6]

Thanks, Adam. How tight is it a fit for the apparatus to get to the scene and get equipment mobilized? Does the tight working area ever pose challenges?

Does PVFD have a special unit for this, or just an engine and rescue?

The TSP is handled by 24-2-1 which is a 2005 KME 1000/1000 Engine/Rescue. Roll up doors do allow us to position closer to the rail and still have accequipmentquiment. The abbreviated list of equipment includes Holmatro rescue tools, Stabil struts, cribbing, high pressure air bags, portable winch (power at all 4 sides of the rig with a 2" receiver for the winch. It is kept at Station 2 on Peekskill Hollow Roaresponserespons with a minimum crew of 4. If additional personnel are needed, they are brought by out crew cab utility, a Chiefs car, or another piece of apparatus. We generally respond directly to scenes but to the parkway SOP is Fire Police POV and official vehicles only on the parkway.

As for space being tight--of course accidents rarely happen on the wide and straight part so yes at times navigating the "course" can be challenging -- especially when cars are stacked bumper to bumper and you have a guide rail on the left, and stone wall of guide rail on the right. This is where we would either cut off any traffic slipping past the incident and respond in the "wrong" way, or take (shut) a lane on the other side of the center rail (opposite direction of travel) -- IE scene is in the NB lanes, we would shut the left lane in the SB lanes and operathererom ther as a last resort.

And I was told that the "average" speed on our stretch of the TSP is 85 m.p.h. People are always trying to pass apparatus and try and blow through the scene before "WE cause a traffic back up". It can be CRAZY out there. Forget about the bad weather.....thats another story

[SECTMB 612]

Never felt comfortable along that stretch of the TSP. Way back in the 70's we (Briarcliff) used to have numerous, sometimes multiple fatalities in a single accident, every year along our stretch before it was all redone improving the grades and sightlines. Since then the accidents became less severe, the fatalities much less. Much of the upper TSP has also been 'fixed' over the years, but this stretch simple does not allow for much improvement due to the terrain. When I signed on and saw it was TSP at Peekskill Hollow Road, I was not surprised.

[JBE 328]

I wonder if there's been any thought given to a cloverleaf and overpass at Pudding Street. I also don't know if it's feasible, but maybe a traffic light?? The reason I ask is because I don't travel that stretch very much, but when I do, I got white knuckles all the way up to 84. MB is right, anytime I hear of an accident on the TSP when I'm listening to the traffic reports, the first place that goes through my mind is either Pudding Street or Peekskill Hollow.

[PVFD113 6]

I wonder if there's been any thought given to a cloverleaf and overpass at Pudding Street. I also don't know if it's feasible, but maybe a traffic light?? The reason I ask is because I don't travel that stretch very much, but when I do, I got white knuckles all the way up to 84. MB is right, anytime I hear of an accident on the TSP when I'm listening to the traffic reports, the first place that goes through my mind is either Pudding Street or Peekskill Hollow.

There are (were at least) plans for an overpass @ Pudding Street. It was in the works a year or 2 ago - before the State started cutting funding to DOT projects. I am not sure where the project stands now. It is needed, as was the Bryant Pond over pass, which has proven to be tremendous improvement in safety. It would be quite costly to improve the BPR - PHR section as there is a drop off on one side and a mountain on the other. I think North of PHR can be improved somewhat by further lengthening the turns - last round helped but now people just drive faster and roll over....

[helicopper 1,050]

Helicopper, I hear you, however I have been telling my wife who worked with him that if he had I feel that he would have had the same outcome. As what if's and rumors and questions swirrel in heis office, I just want to give them as much closure as possibe. I am just thinking a t-bone on the parkway at god knows what speed..... We can all sit here and think or Monday morning quarterback but unfortunately what is done is done and we lost a dam good doctor. Not saying that if this was any joe blow motorist would have been different, as it sucks everytime.....

Well, I can understand your saying things to ease the grief in the doctor's office but here it boils down to a factual analysis. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking and this wasn't a t-bone collision. Based strictly on the kinetics and vehicle damage, it was a survivable collision for a vehicle occupant; in fact, the driver of the other vehicle walked away physically unharmed.

Again, I completely understand that you're trying to ease your wife's grief but for those on this site that are looking at the accident, the physics are the physics.

[helicopper 1,050]

There are (were at least) plans for an overpass @ Pudding Street. It was in the works a year or 2 ago - before the State started cutting funding to DOT projects. I am not sure where the project stands now. It is needed, as was the Bryant Pond over pass, which has proven to be tremendous improvement in safety. It would be quite costly to improve the BPR - PHR section as there is a drop off on one side and a mountain on the other. I think North of PHR can be improved somewhat by further lengthening the turns - last round helped but now people just drive faster and roll over....

It would be nice if they did build an overpass but as you say, they'll just keep driving faster and faster.

Given the state's budget though, I'd be surprised to see this anytime soon.

[x635 4,066]

It would be nice if they did build an overpass but as you say, they'll just keep driving faster and faster.

Given the state's budget though, I'd be surprised to see this anytime soon.

Can't the Putnam Valley board at least put pressure on New Yok state? Is there any was to build a bypass at least?

It's a deathtrap, basically. Wondering what priority NY dot has it at?

BTW, thanks Adam for the info

[helicopper 1,050]

Can't the Putnam Valley board at least put pressure on New Yok state? Is there any was to build a bypass at least?

It's a deathtrap, basically. Wondering what priority NY dot has it at?

BTW, thanks Adam for the info

Putnam Valley's board can't put pressure on Putnam Valley let alone the State of New York.

Statistically is that stretch of highway a deathtrap? In years past (I haven't reviewed the data recently), the numbers of fatalities was actually low in Putnam County.

[PVFD113 6]

Putnam Valley's board can't put pressure on Putnam Valley let alone the State of New York.

Statistically is that stretch of highway a deathtrap? In years past (I haven't reviewed the data recently), the numbers of fatalities was actually low in Putnam County.

It runs hot and cold. Fatalities may be down but the incident count seems to be on the rise. There were also talks of shutting the cross over as they did up North. The really bad spot is really between BPR and PHR. North of PHR has its share but again - it is better than it was.

[JBE 328]

Thanx, Adam.

[x1243 141]

Well, I can understand your saying things to ease the grief in the doctor's office but here it boils down to a factual analysis. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking and this wasn't a t-bone collision. Based strictly on the kinetics and vehicle damage, it was a survivable collision for a vehicle occupant; in fact, the driver of the other vehicle walked away physically unharmed.

Again, I completely understand that you're trying to ease your wife's grief but for those on this site that are looking at the accident, the physics are the physics.

I am not easing my wife's grief on this forum as my wife does not even know that this site exists.

I also am aware that this wasnt a t-bone collision as the female drivers's vehicle hit a human not another vehicle so that's probably why she was able to walk away. 99% of your car deer accidents on the parkway walk away as well.

My feeling is whether or not he was in a vehicle is she were to have hit his vehicle which was rested across both northbound lanes at 70 or 80 miles an hour, the outcome probably would have been the same.......

Once again I am not trying to ease any grief on my wifes part so lets leave her and her feelings out of this.....

There is my factual analysis, and 2 cents

Edited September 15, 2011 by x1243

[helicopper 1,050]

My feeling is whether or not he was in a vehicle is she were to have hit his vehicle which was rested across both northbound lanes at 70 or 80 miles an hour, the outcome probably would have been the same.......

The collision speed in this case was probably HALF your estimate.

[x1243 141]

The collision speed in this case was probably HALF your estimate.

Ok, Thank you for your help. I understand it much clearer now.....

Edited September 15, 2011 by x1243