Recently Removed Topic: NY Motorcycle Incident

[jack10562 414]

While we don't generally publicly discuss site administrative actions and behind the scenes decisions, once again, EMTBravo staff were left with little choice other than to remove an interesting topic that started with much good and constructive commentary and offered a platform as a valuable learning experience, but had nonetheless degenerated into individuals hurling personal insults and cross-profession (PD / FD) attacks.

We don't appreciate it when certain members find it impossible to temper their remarks and causes us to take down what subsequently had become a controversial topic, in order to maintain civility.

We are not a rant-board, and don't want to become a rant-board. There are plenty of those out there.

We encourage our members to continue to share relevant current event news articles and general interest stories, and also to report topics containing postings that they feel violate forum posting rules, such as bashing Paid vs Vollie, Cops vs Fire, or portray those professions in a derogatory tone, or for any other issues. Those reports are reviewed by our staff and offending postings will be moderated or removed as deemed necessary.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

It's a shame that something that everyone could have learned something from had to be removed because of the immaturity of a few individuals. I saw a the entire incident on a 14 minute long amateur video and I planned on posting it here in order to discuss what went wrong and what could have been done better but after all of the infighting I decided against it.

[abaduck 123]

I believe this is the wrong approach; it throws the good out with the bad.

This is a first responder forum, not a knitting circle; we're all type A personalities, we can handle a little conflict and rough exchanges - here or in the firehouse/precinct/whatever.

If the behaviour of certain posters crosses the line, first warn, then delete the posts and ban the posters - long enough to cool off, or permanently if merited. That's the way I would handle it.

This isn't criticism; I don't spent the time & effort Seth & the moderators do in running things around here. Just my opinion.

Mike

[jack10562 414]

I should add, the site staff are currently discussing the feasibility of "pruning" the topic and possibly restoring it after a cooling-off period, strictly because of the educational potential. However I can't offer any guarantees that will in fact occur.

[helicopper 1,050]

It's a shame that something that everyone could have learned something from had to be removed because of the immaturity of a few individuals. I saw a the entire incident on a 14 minute long amateur video and I planned on posting it here in order to discuss what went wrong and what could have been done better but after all of the infighting I decided against it.

Bull, if you'd like to post the video again and discuss what went wrong technically and not because of the patch on rescuers' sleeve, we can give it another try.

It is sad that we descend into the nonsense straight away and can't have an intelligent conversation just because we perceive ourselves to be better than someone else.

[helicopper 1,050]

I believe this is the wrong approach; it throws the good out with the bad.

This is a first responder forum, not a knitting circle; we're all type A personalities, we can handle a little conflict and rough exchanges - here or in the firehouse/precinct/whatever.

If the behaviour of certain posters crosses the line, first warn, then delete the posts and ban the posters - long enough to cool off, or permanently if merited. That's the way I would handle it.

This isn't criticism; I don't spent the time & effort Seth & the moderators do in running things around here. Just my opinion.

Mike

Mike, the staff had a long discussion and your points were argued from both sides. As Jack said, we don't usually discuss moderating decisions here but we wanted to keep the members informed so they understand why the thread was removed. As for the point about certain posts or posters, the thread had virtually nothing redeeming in it. It was overwhelmingly negative and violated the TOS for the site. And if we disciplined everyone who got sucked into the fray there'd be few people left to post anything.

As I said to Bull, if someone wants to try again and not base their comments on the truck that the responders arrived in or the patch on their sleeve, we will entertain a second attempt.

Members have to remember that while we're not a "knitting circle" to use your words, we are not a rant site either and abusive posts will not be tolerated.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Bull, if you'd like to post the video again and discuss what went wrong technically and not because of the patch on rescuers' sleeve, we can give it another try.

It is sad that we descend into the nonsense straight away and can't have an intelligent conversation just because we perceive ourselves to be better than someone else.

If you look at that thread carefully, I neither engaged in or started a pissing match. In fact that was the very thing I was trying to avoid.

[helicopper 1,050]

If you look at that thread carefully, I neither engaged in or started a pissing match. In fact that was the very thing I was trying to avoid.

Forgive me if you took my post to mean you did anything wrong. I wasn't suggesting that at all.

I was merely offering you the option to try posting it again for the potential learning value.

[mikeinet 37]

I had a few gripes here -- which were PM'd and e-mailed to a few folks (none of which replied to me...)

First, as the original poster, I was never notified the post was removed, but it simply "disappeared". No notification to the originator, at least a professional curtsey.

Secondly, I felt the thread (minus the "me vs you" comments) was very educational for the members of this community. While it is a black eye for our industry, what better opportunity to learn from.

Third, we see tons of threads in this community that are "locked" and "cooled down" -- yet, for some reason, this one was straight out removed.

Fourth, it's been quite a few days since the thread was removed and this is the first public acknowledgement that it was done -- nothing was done at the time, just simply vanished in thin air.

It's no doubt the EMTBravo staff have a huge job on their hands -- but we're not kids here, treat us like adults and we'll treat you back.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

I had a few gripes here -- which were PM'd and e-mailed to a few folks (none of which replied to me...)

First, as the original poster, I was never notified the post was removed, but it simply "disappeared". No notification to the originator, at least a professional curtsey.

Third, we see tons of threads in this community that are "locked" and "cooled down" -- yet, for some reason, this one was straight out removed.

Fourth, it's been quite a few days since the thread was removed and this is the first public acknowledgement that it was done -- nothing was done at the time, just simply vanished in thin air.

It's no doubt the EMTBravo staff have a huge job on their hands -- but we're not kids here, treat us like adults and we'll treat you back.

Feel free to read the thread linked below:

Duties of Moderators and Administrators

or

The Board Rules

[efdcapt115 1,511]

The thread has been restarted, ny10570 posted the video and hopefully it can be a good discussion that doesn't cross any lines.

We all have to remember something and that is this; we have members from different generations who confronted different circumstances (particularly in NYC) "back in the day."

We have to remember their perspective; just because it's not politically correct these days to talk the way some of our older members do, THEIR memories of how things were is really all they are expressing.

I learned a lesson here a long time ago; I'm never going to jump in and criticize police activity. It's not my area of knowledge, but I have learned quite a few things from our Brothers and Sisters in Blue.

The problems arise in the "cross-over" areas like pin jobs in NYC with basically two agencies operating. I think they've come a long way (but I don't work there so what do I really know) in cooperation on scene, and working for the same end; control and mitigation of emergencies.

But we must acknowledge there was a time, and there are active members who were there, when things weren't quite so cooperative. There was a Battle of The Badges.

Remembering the perspective of what a member experienced in their time on the job really helps us to understand "where they are coming from."

I know my good friend from Rescue 3 has stirred the pot here and pissed people off. In his mind, (I've talked with him as recently as today) he comes from the era when cops and firemen would come to near blows at pin jobs.

Thank goodness those days have passed. But it should not take away the credibility of a man's knowledge from his extremely active career, and the wisdom he has to offer.

We all have to GIVE A LITTLE, and things will be fine. I'm optimistic it can be done.

[mfc2257 464]

The thread has been restarted, ny10570 posted the video and hopefully it can be a good discussion that doesn't cross any lines.

We all have to remember something and that is this; we have members from different generations who confronted different circumstances (particularly in NYC) "back in the day."

We have to remember their perspective; just because it's not politically correct these days to talk the way some of our older members do, THEIR memories of how things were is really all they are expressing.

I learned a lesson here a long time ago; I'm never going to jump in and criticize police activity. It's not my area of knowledge, but I have learned quite a few things from our Brothers and Sisters in Blue.

The problems arise in the "cross-over" areas like pin jobs in NYC with basically two agencies operating. I think they've come a long way (but I don't work there so what do I really know) in cooperation on scene, and working for the same end; control and mitigation of emergencies.

But we must acknowledge there was a time, and there are active members who were there, when things weren't quite so cooperative. There was a Battle of The Badges.

Remembering the perspective of what a member experienced in their time on the job really helps us to understand "where they are coming from."

I know my good friend from Rescue 3 has stirred the pot here and pissed people off. In his mind, (I've talked with him as recently as today) he comes from the era when cops and firemen would come to near blows at pin jobs.

Thank goodness those days have passed. But it should not take away the credibility of a man's knowledge from his extremely active career, and the wisdom he has to offer.

We all have to GIVE A LITTLE, and things will be fine. I'm optimistic it can be done.

The Captain is on the right track... Let me add though what is/was missing from this long discussed issue.... Which will absolutely shock everyone...

In reality this has exactly ZERO to do with Police Officers and Firemen.... That is correct... ZERO...

What is missed here that goes on every where else is that there are a******* in every line of work and that is what creates the issue. Cops and Firemen have been buddies for a century... It's just the jerks that screw it all up.

[EMTbravo 312]

The staff, led by IzzyEng4, has worked to weed out the "Battle Of The Badges" and inflammatory posts, and merge the two threads together so no knowledge or insight would be lost.

I thank them for their effort on this.

Seth