Extended Aerials: Pros Vs. Cons

[x635 4,066]

I recently read an article regarding extended reach aerial that several manufacturers are offering.

Some of these range from 109' to 137'.

It's not so much about building height, but lateral reach to set back buildings.

However, you need extra room for outriggers.

Anyone else care to add?

[osufire90 18]

I would say that if your department has the money, and have the space to position and set up a larger aerial, go for it! Its always better to have more ladder than you need!

[CFFD117 19]

Wasn't ladder 26 with Boston FD a 115 E-One aerial on a single axle? I remember seeing episodes of "Firehouse USA Boston" on Discovery, and if i remember correctly that was how they described the truck.

[Newburgher 241]

I would say that if your department has the money, and have the space to position and set up a larger aerial, go for it! Its always better to have more ladder than you need!

That's not always a good thing. In my area, we have departments that can't get very many interior Firefighters out for a simple alarm, instead relying on mutual aid routinely, yet still have the money to by the biggest and best of everything, whether it's needed or not. It seems, to justify this expense, more times than I can count, an aerial or tower gets set up for a single story ranch or split level home. While it's more labor to throw a ground ladder, in most cases it is quicker. And as far as setting up to a residence or structure less than 2 stories, you still have to climb up to the turntable, before you start walking out along the bridge that you just set up. In my opinion, it is less hassle, and quicker to just throw the correct ground ladder.

On the other hand, some of the areas around here have old estates with very old, large houses. A 35' ground ladder for some of these houses won't even come close to getting you to the roof. It would make sense that the fire department protecting these neighborhoods would have the equipment needed, if they can afford to. But, what kind of ground stability is needed for this kind of Truck? Can you even set up with your outriggers landing on a lawn after a week we just had? How long are they? (Wheelbase and tailswing) Can you even manuever them into a driveway to begin with?

[sympathomedic 383]

I am wholly unqualified to to post on this, other than I occasionally drive a ladder. But reading a lot of stories makes me suggest that before you "go for it" make sure it will fit in the station. Make sure the floor of the station will support the extra weight. Make sure the roadway in front of the station will permit the needed swing room to get in and out every day.

[Future Fireman 4]

Wasn't ladder 26 with Boston FD a 115 E-One aerial on a single axle? I remember seeing episodes of "Firehouse USA Boston" on Discovery, and if i remember correctly that was how they described the truck.

You're 5 feet off, Skip can verify this, but all the E-ONE RMA's in Beantown are 110, not 115. The Pierce units are 105 and the TLs are 85-95 ft.

E-One's been making those for years, if I remember correctly.

[sfrd18 360]

You're 5 feet off, Skip can verify this, but all the E-ONE RMA's in Beantown are 110, not 115. The Pierce units are 105 and the TLs are 85-95 ft.

E-One's been making those for years, if I remember correctly.

Correct. Boston's E-One sticks on single-axle chassis are 100'-110'. Now, however, the new E-One sticks have duel-axles in the rear to support the weight of the ladder. Correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe someone can clarify this, but I think all apparatus mfg.'s aren't allowed to make aerial ladders 100' or over noew without duel-axles in the rear of the truck for some reason or another. In Boston, the only ladders with single-axles anymore are Ladder 14, Ladder 19, Ladder 23, Ladder 25(Refurb.), and Ladder 29. The Pierce sticks are 100' RMA's mounted on duel-axle chassis. Boston's mid-mount towers are 95' and their rear-mount tower(Tower Ladder 10) is 85'.

[x635 4,066]

There are a number of pros and cons. One of the pro's I read was that it was benefical for ventilation of set back lightwieght construction buildings.

I'd really like Capt. Nechis's view on this.

[Bnechis 3,961]

There are a number of pros and cons. One of the pro's I read was that it was benefical for ventilation of set back lightwieght construction buildings.

I'd really like Capt. Nechis's view on this.

Thanks & I'd like a raise in my consulting fee.

Extra reach is great, however what are you giving up to get it?

1. Heavier rig that maybe cant go in the station or respond over some roads/bridges. That means it can not cover all of its district. (I know a few depts. that went with quint towers that are too heavy to cover the district...but they had to have them because everyone else has them).

2. Taller, longer....again do they fit?

3. Slower to set up because of additional jacking needs..."don't worry...just hang on for another minute"

4. Cost

If it was perfect, we would all have them.

[osufire90 18]

I think a good blend would be a mixture of aerials...some 75 ft, some 100+ft. That way you always have the right truck for the job (assuming you get one of each at each fire).

[IzzyEng4 427]

Correct. Boston's E-One sticks on single-axle chassis are 100'-110'. Now, however, the new E-One sticks have duel-axles in the rear to support the weight of the ladder. Correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe someone can clarify this, but I think all apparatus mfg.'s aren't allowed to make aerial ladders 100' or over noew without duel-axles in the rear of the truck for some reason or another.

Everyone has a misconception about why new vehicles (in this case talking about aerial ladders trucks) have dual rear axles. The reason is for the distribution of the weight of the truck, not because of the aerial device, ect. The DOT has specific guidelines manufacturers must follow to make heavy-duty truck road worthy and distribute the weight to meet the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_vehicle_weight_rating). Now having that said, when you take in the weight of the truck chassis, cab, aerial, and also the equipment and the combine weight average of personnel on the rig, if far exceeds what the suspension system can handle per the standards (same with tankers, heavy rescues, ect.) So in plain English if a (any) truck fully loaded upon design of construction is expected to carry XXXX amount of weight while in service then determines the number of axles required to distribute the weight over the truck chassis to the tires. Each axle has a rating, fronts axles on fire apparatus are typically 20,000 to about 40,000 pounds while a rear axle can go up to 75,000 pounds (using an average, not exact). So lets say we take a ladder truck with a 40,000 lbs rated front axle and a 75,000 lbs rated single rear axle, your truck can safely carry on the road 115,000 pounds total weight. If its more than that like with aerial ladders, engine tankers and tankers, you add typically the same rated axle to the rear of the truck, thus increasing the GVWR another 75,000 lbs, thus the truck now has a GVWR of 190,000 lbs.

In Boston, the only ladders with single-axles anymore are Ladder 14, Ladder 19, Ladder 23, Ladder 25(Refurb.), and Ladder 29. The Pierce sticks are 100' RMA's mounted on duel-axle chassis. Boston's mid-mount towers are 95' and their rear-mount tower(Tower Ladder 10) is 85'.

Those trucks in Boston that have single axles now are older models that were placed into service and have since been refurbished before the new federal standards. If that truck was built to today's standards, then the trucks would be required to have dual rear axles for a proper GVWR. If they are refurbished then they still can have a single rear axle. Just as the case with Pelham and Darien Aerialscope tower ladders, they were able to engineer the 75' TLs to have a single rear axle on new chassis like the old Macks, the total weight of the truck (including the aerial device) falls under the total GVWR. If they were built brand new, the total weigh of the truck would exceed the GVWR because of the set standards of new apparatus construction .