Orange County Choppers Headquarters Foreclosure

[x635 4,066]

It's been rampant speculation on the internet for the past year that the new "Orange County Choppers World Headquarters" in Newburgh was being foreclosed on.

On the season premiere of AC:Senior vs. Junior, Paul Sr. mentioned he was looking for new space to relocate OCC to. They went and looked at the original shops on the show, but after years of being empty has taken it's toll on the building, it appears.

From what I know, Discovery Channel helped finance the building. It was supposed to also be a tourist attraction in Orange County, and bring in some tax revenue. Although I've never been there, it looks like a really, really cool place. I'm told though, that many parts are vacant. Who is going to buy the current facility? I think this whole deal is ridiculous, and OCC's dealing's with this situation are shady. What a waste of money.

Since Sr. owns all the land around it, I'm told a new facility is being built on the same property. Also, the Orange County Chopper Resturant was supposed to be built on the property, but I guess that fizzled with the downturn.

His son, Matt, who he also doesn't speak with, bought out Orange County Ironworks, which had a showroom in the building. I'm told that Sr. owns a construction company "Full Throttle Construction" that is non-union and built the current facility.

Anybody have claricication or more info?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Paul's second son's name is Dan and they have reconciled supposedly.

There was something going on a few months ago with the forclosure with SR. trying to build another building next door under a new corporation name that would run OCC. However the Orange County BOC basically down played it and denied him the building permits. The whole foreclosure thing was an effort in some reports to get a better rate, but that backfired.

I'll see if I can search and find it. There hasn't been a lot of press lately on it.

[38ff 250]

There was a legal notice in the Times Record a week or 2 or so about a OCC Restaurant Company being "started". From what I saw in there a few days ago when I dropped off some stuff, they are turning out lots of theme bikes. It has looked slower in the past. Now, it seems to be pretty busy.

[TRUCK6018 50]

OCC's dealing's with this situation are shady.

Many of the Teutul's business dealings appear less than legitimate. Case in point the bankruptcy of Orange County Ironworks in 2005.

After being sued by a contractor for breach of contract (and the courts siding with the contractor in the tune of a judgement for $1.3 million) the business filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection. The problem was that prior to filing, all of the company's assets (equipment, employees, other assets) were transferred to "Orange County Ironworks LLC" for less than fair compensation and Orange County Ironworks ceased operations.

Once the former company filed bankruptcy and the bankruptcy courts ordered all assets liquidated, they claimed their only assets were "accounts receivable" (owed money that was non collectable)in the amount of just under $600,000. As an end result there was a settlement proposed that the new Orange County Ironworks LLC pay a $500,000 settlement to the trustee of the bankruptcy case to distribute to creditors. Part of the settlement included a gag order barring the any of the key players from discussing the settlement.

One interesting point of this whole debacle is that while Paul Senior and Junior are listed as defendants in the settlement. It was only Danny and the business ordered to pay the settlement.

More recently OCC, American Chopper and Discovery Channel was sued by Justin Barnes and "JB Graphix" for copyright infringement. Justin alleges that 18 original designs were copied without his authorization and compensation and then incorporated in merchandise tied into the business of OCC and American Chopper. Former employee Cody Connelly also sued Senior and OCC.

All of these known legal issues makes you wonder what else is going on. After all Nub's Graphics also had problems with Senior as played out in the first season of Senior vs. Junior. Another former employee Vinnie DiMartino had a fallout with Senior but never went on record in discussing the circumstances.

Fast forward to today with the foreclosure issues and the attempts of "G&M Orange LLC", with Senior listed as owner, to build a bike business on an adjacent property to OCC. This was the building that was proposed to have a restaurant. While the new building didn't formally get turned down from being built, back in March Senior approached the Orange County Industrial Development Agency to provide tax breaks for the project. This is what was turned down. Because of the foreclosure the agency could not in good conscience provide tax breaks for the new venture.

Edited September 3, 2011 by TRUCK6018

[IzzyEng4 427]

Thanks Truck for explaining it, that is all the stuff I was looking for.

[x635 4,066]

Good to see you posting again, Truck6018! And thanks for the info!

[JTF429 37]

I think Sr, his show, his bikes are all a joke. He is way beyond shady. He got rich off a t.v. show that had him and his dsyfunctional family making idiots out of themselves. He is not a stand up guy in any way shape or form. I know a big 9/11 ride is leaving there that the IAFF is organizing. So much for Union Brotherhood. They should have looked into that one. Just my opinion. I would trust a bike built y that idiot.

[x635 4,066]

In the begining, and I'm pretty sure still, the producers tell them what to say. You can note the difference when Sr. is in public vs. doing commentary at the shop or elsewhere.

[TRUCK6018 50]

From what I understand Senior is not the most pleasant individual off the camera. I know numerous people that have had dealings with him and they all say the same thing about him. Things that I can't say here otherwise I'd be violating TOS.

On another note, thinking back about the new building he wants or wanted to build. The issues he had trying to get the tax incentives was reported back in march of this year. In last weeks episode of the show he was visiting his first shop on Stone Castle Rd to explore the possibilities of moving back in there. In terms of a timeline it had just snowed and he said it was a late season snowfall (it had collapsed the roof). I'm thinking that might be after he was denied the tax breaks for the new building. Either that or it was just TV drama to make you think he was going to move back to his old shop, just down the road from Jr's shop.

In terms of his bikes I couldn't agree with JTF429 more. American Choppers started airing at a time when there were numerous other bike builders being shown on TV. Builders that already had a following in the chopper circles and are a thousand times more talented than the American Chopper clan. Names such as Jessie James with West Coast Choppers (before his more recent problems) Billy Lane with Choppers Inc (again, before his more recent problems) in Miami and Indian Larry Desmedt (RIP) from Gasoline Alley in NYC. I think the problem with the builders and their brief portrayal on TV is there was no drama instilled into the show. It was all about their talent.

Then comes along with the American Choppers circus of stars who, in the beginning, didn't do a hell of slot more than assemble the bikes. Most of the fabrication other, than sissy bars and handle bars, came from third parties. Sure they threw in a few things like round bar but the bottom line is it was all cosmetic. They didn't do much more than bolt everything together, do a little wiring and fill up the tank with gasoline. I think the thing that made this show last and built up their popularity was the drama. It's not until more recently that they actually fabricate tanks, seats and fenders.

I'll admit it, I watch the show but take it for what it is. While they Senior and Junior have grown to be more of a builder than assembler, I don't think they will ever match the likes of the others.

[OnTheWheel 43]

Watch Sr when he shakes someones hand, he doesnt look them in the eye, always looks away. You just can't trust anyone like that!

[dadbo46 50]

Watch Sr when he shakes someones hand, he doesnt look them in the eye, always looks away. You just can't trust anyone like that!

Just watching the marathon this morning. You're absolutely correct. Never looks anyone in the eye when shaking hands !

[lad45der 78]

4 Years ago me and my buddy's were in Datona Florida at bike week, We were waiting in Hooters to get seated for dinner, when in walks Vinny behind us in line. He was by himself we were bullshitting with him in the line when our table was called we asked him if he wanted to sit with us so he said yes. We were all talking about the show and he did say in so many words without dissing senior that the Guy is impossible to be around. Most not all of the fighting you see on TV was for real. Vinny is as down to earth as you can get just a normal guy happy to be working on a cool show not caught up in the drama.

[JBE 328]

I can vouch for that. I've met Vinnie on a couple of occasions at his shop and he was the nicest guy you could ever meet. Very appreciative of the fans. I actually stopped watching the show when he left OCC. I wach occasionally now, and it's pretty sad when money and other dysfunction ruin a family.

[TRUCK6018 50]

OCC is back in the news again.

It is reported in today's Times Herald Record that OCC is not being sued by the Town of Newburgh for failure to pay taxes. Allegadly, $18,000 in property taxes were due in January. Newburgh officials accused Paul Sr of having a "long standing pattern and practice of defrauding creditors".

[x635 4,066]

I don't know which episode it was this season possibly the one where they built the Gears Of War trike, but Sr. said that they had reached a deal with a bank?

I wonder if all Senior's outbursts and mood swings were actually "roid rage"?

It seems like that plus he his a financial criminal. It's sad, I know many fans waited many years to see that shop. And he has more then enough money to pay his taxes, I don't care how bad the economy.If not, then he is a horrible businessman who only became wealthy because of the popularity of the show and merchandising deals. The Discovery Channel must be paying him something, and he's made millions upon millions of dollars with OCC. I also know the Discovery Channel helped finance the new building. You would think they would help, but guess it makes for good TV aka revenue. And again, for Senior, he is a financial criminal who thinks he is too good and too powerful to have to pay his dues.

We also have to remember that he's wasn't there for his kids growing up, because he was a drug addict and severe alcoholic. He seems to try to redeem himself several times on the series, most notably Cody. He is unreasonable and psycho in the what he expects from Paulie. I have his book, and it's not written by him at all. It is such a boring, nonsense read, don't bother. I personally think he's illiterate. Let's not forget, the producers, from the very first episode until now, still have to tell Senior (as well as Paulie) exactly what to say when they do the brief interviews or expplanations on the show. They definetly couldn't put words togethers like that.

At one time, very early on in the first season, I remember when Vinny was having his first kid and his house needed a new roof, him and Paulie put it on themselves. Those times seem long gone.

Also, once again, I'm glad you're posting TRUCK6018. It's good to have you back!

[JetPhoto 626]

Due to a limited audience being able to view the Records article, here is on from the Poughkeepsie Urinal Orange County Choppers

[x635 4,066]

Also, with the financial and other unpleasant conditions Newburgh is in, you'd think they would want OCC to stay there. I mean, in some form, it must attract people and sales tax to Newburgh. It's unique.

Isn't there a development or holdings company that could help them out?

Regardless, I think the only fame they have left is there conflict, and PJD will come out of this the winner. They seem to be more creative. HOWEVER, I hope they don't become OCC 2 and learned from their mistakes.

Their building was a result of an overly optimistic growth model of their company during boomtimes. Now that the economy tanked and no one has much disposable cash to purchase motorcycles and their licensed merchandise.

And, as far as OCC goes, I never liked that "Steve" guy they brought on as a business manager from Day 1. I think he helped to steer this to as much possible profit regardless of the Tetuls, and he could care less as long as it's still lining his pockets.

BTW, does anyone know what happned to the Firebike, one of the ones that put them on the map?

[38ff 250]

The fire bike is displayed in the showroom infront of the "patchwall". I'll try to get some pics this week when I go there.

[Guest ME4]

I never watched AC for the 1st 2 or 3 seasons because of all the yelling and Sr looking like a lunatic.

I don't know what started me watching it again but I became a fan and became aware of all the antics/dynamics of the show.

I cannot believe that some whether you like Sr or not can't see what spoiled brats Jr and Mikey are. It became evident that Jr loved the limelight and the camera's.

He purposely antagonized his father and tried to belittle him over and over.

Jr was not an owner or equal partner, that means he had a boss. His father. He didn't like that.

As you watch the show over the years you see that all of the family changed cars like people change socks. You see they all had houses, vacation homes and all the trappings of success. Jr nor Mikey ever seemed appreciative of this.

If Sr allowed the shop to be run the way Jr wanted to run it which was come and go as you please the business would have been sunk long ago.

Now Jr has his own shop, so he is his own boss, I suspect he will kicking and screaming finally see some of his fathers reasoning as he gets more employees and is not building bikes each day personally.

While I don't agree with all Sr does I would never think a father has to kiss his kids azzes.

Jr and Mikey are typical of the current young generation.

They have a sense of entitlement and a belief that parents should always acquiesce to their kids wishes.

If they were my sons's I'd tell them both to take a hike and go on with my life.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Are you sure Jr was not an owner? After all, isn't that what the basis of the law suit was? Jr owned 20% of the business. When he left he wanted his share. Sr had the business appraised and it was allegedly deemed the business was worth nothing so Jr's shares were worth nothing.

Jr was given part of OCC at about the same time Danny was given part of Orange County Iron Works.

Jr and Michael spoiled brats? Maybe, maybe not. Just remember, the viewers only see what the producers want them to see. They have a way of putting a spin on situations so they are less than truthful. While Jr may have been antagonistic to Sr, Sr was just as antagonistic. The two got along like oil and water. After all, it is Sr that had lawsuits against him by numerous past employees and third party vendors.

On the tax situation, it was reported last week that OCC settled with the town.

Edited October 4, 2011 by TRUCK6018

[IzzyEng4 427]

He purposely antagonized his father and tried to belittle him over and over.

How would you feel if your well known alcoholic-drug-addict father was never there for you or your family and you started to end up like him even before the fame happened???? You think you might have some pent up resentment? Remember he only sobered up when the sister was born and only a little bit after that Sr. and Paula split.

Sorry this family was dysfunctional from the get go and Discovery did everything to exploit this. It's a two way street and anyone that takes sides on that needs to really look at every episode, including the one during the first season were Sr. and Jr. sat on the couch and spilled out everything, then again later on in season 3 and 4 (can't remember which one) when they had not had a major blow up and then they did look how bad it was. There are some major problems in the family and one of which is Sr.'s mind though on some issues.

Like father, Like son.

[Guest ME4]

Are you sure Jr was not an owner? After all, isn't that what the basis of the law suit was? Jr owned 20% of the business. When he left he wanted his share. Sr had the business appraised and it was allegedly deemed the business was worth nothing so Jr's shares were worth nothing.

Jr was given part of OCC at about the same time Danny was given part of Orange County Iron Works.

Jr and Michael spoiled brats? Maybe, maybe not. Just remember, the viewers only see what the producers want them to see. They have a way of putting a spin on situations so they are less than truthful. While Jr may have been antagonistic to Sr, Sr was just as antagonistic. The two got along like oil and water. After all, it is Sr that had lawsuits against him by numerous past employees and third party vendors.

On the tax situation, it was reported last week that OCC settled with the town.

Jr was GIVEN 20% of the business, a gift he obviously felt entitled to and never appreciated.. A 20% partner does not tell the 80% Partner what to do.

Danny was sold the Iron Works Business outright and owns it.

If you can't see that Jr and Mikey are spoiled ungrateful brats then I don;t know what to say. They both remind me of many young people today who walk into a brand new job or situation and demand the same respect as someone who has been there for years or decades.

Sr was the boss that is what Jr never seemed to understand. He could have left on his own long before he was fired. He was a typical owners son who thought the rules don't apply to him, apparently Sr never got that memo.

I would never tolerate my grown kids speaking to me in the manner Jr spoke to Sr.

The easy answer is in the question of whether Sr has had any outburst at any employee since Jr was fired? Those cameras roll in the shop all day everyday.

On the issue of property taxes, I don't see what the issue is. If Sr thought his property was overvalued then obviously his taxes were to high. This is nothing new and occurs all over the country.

[Guest ME4]

How would you feel if your well known alcoholic-drug-addict father was never there for you or your family and you started to end up like him even before the fame happened???? You think you might have some pent up resentment? Remember he only sobered up when the sister was born and only a little bit after that Sr. and Paula split.

Sorry this family was dysfunctional from the get go and Discovery did everything to exploit this. It's a two way street and anyone that takes sides on that needs to really look at every episode, including the one during the first season were Sr. and Jr. sat on the couch and spilled out everything, then again later on in season 3 and 4 (can't remember which one) when they had not had a major blow up and then they did look how bad it was. There are some major problems in the family and one of which is Sr.'s mind though on some issues.

Like father, Like son.

Then Jr should have gone his own way, he chose not to.

Jr is 37-39, Sr has been sober for over 25 yrs, that means he got his act together while Jr was still young.

As I said before Jr and Mikey are typical of today's youth. Spoiled and ungrateful. It is worth noting they were spoiled by their parents.

I never said the family did not have problems, that is very clear, but I honestly don't think they have any problems many other families don't have, this one just had their laundry aired on TV. They were ALL well paid for it, so I feel no sympathy for any of them.

I have never believed parents are supposed to bend to their kids will or way of thinking.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

It's obvious by some of the impassioned responses this topic is getting, that there are members of this site that feel strongly connected to the happenings of this reality tv show.

I can say I've never had much of an interest in watching it. But I do remember when they made the "343" bike, and delivered it to Al Ronaldson's son at a Bronx firehouse. Al Ronaldson was an FDNY member who died at a fire in the early 1990's I think. I remember his funeral distinctly because it was so cold upstate (I guess it was in Orange County?) that I went home and came down with the flu. And now his son has joined the FDNY and therefore the OCC guys brought the bike to the son.

I remember seeing the OCC guys at the NYPD car show at City Island.

It seems to me, through all of the drama that many of you have followed closely, that the OCC people have always been very respectful to the FDNY and the NYPD.

Whatever personal issues the family is apparently going through, it's a shame they are airing it all out on television, and obviously making those of you who are loyal viewers choose sides in a personal family conflict.

I think this show, judging by what I've read here in this thread, has gone beyond the scope and boundaries it was originally planned for; which was a bunch of guys building custom motorcycles. It seems to have taken a turn into a daytime soap-opera. That's a shame really.

Just my opinion, but I think we should respect them for what they've done for NYC emergency services, and the family itself should come to their senses and get this stuff off the air. But fame and fortune become intoxicating, and even at the expense of apparently looking like a wacky dysfunctional family of kooks, they allow the cameras to keep on rolling, and naturally our voyeuristic tendencies compel people to keep tuning in.

Sounds like it's way past time to pull the plug.

[38ff 250]

The sad fact of the whole thing is that according to a trusted source who works at OCC that I know, the show's seasons highest ratings ever are the "Sr Vs Jr" season.....

[Guest ME4]

I think this show, judging by what I've read here in this thread, has gone beyond the scope and boundaries it was originally planned for; which was a bunch of guys building custom motorcycles. It seems to have taken a turn into a daytime soap-opera. That's a shame really.

Every now and then they do a recap/behind the scenes episode.

The one that showed how and why the show came to be is very good and explains a lot.

The original show was supposed to be filmed in New Hampshire or Maine with a guy who got a hold of old bikes and rebuilt them. The producers heard about OCC went and investigated and at the last minute went with the father and son team.

Sr did not seek out TV Fame and was pissed after the 1st show aired because he thought he and his family looked like fools because of their interactions. Sr actually called the producers and told them to go F themselves because he thought the show had ruined his business.

That show was the highest rating for Discovery Channel and the rest as they say is history.

The Teutels are well paid for their time as I'm sure key employees are.

I think the show is a hit because of the family dynamics.

I found it interesting that someone commented on Sr not looking people in the face when he shakes their hands.

Jr does the same thing and especially at unveiling's is always looking for the cameras above all else.

If the show was simply about bike building I'd never watch it.

[IzzyEng4 427]

If the show was simply about bike building I'd never watch it.

But that is why I do, I'm a biker and have been for a long time. The whole show was about building bikes, that was the original intention of the show. They have made some great bikes together without question (regardless if you consider them an assembler, builder or fabricator; there is a difference between the 3). If it wasn't for Mikey having that chance meeting with someone who was associated with Discovery , then there wouldn't have been a show. If it wasn't for the dynamic, good and bad, that happened between Sr. and Jr. then what would the show be? A lot of if ands and whats but unfortunately that is what made the show. Not the Fire, Police, POW, Jet or Black Widow bikes, the BS in fighting fighting took over and the hiring of a couple of not talent dweebs took over. Put Vinnie, Rick, Christian and Cody in a shop together and watch what they can do. They don't need a computer, that's not how Indian Larry or Dave Perowitz did it.

I don't know about anyone else, but what if there was a father son fire engine / police car / ambulance building company show with the same dynamic as Sr. and Jr. I bet everyone a good here would be up in arms about them showing that dynamic and stating how bad it is for emergency services. It's kinda done the same thing for motorcycles, there are a lot of posers out there now because of this. It's one thing to be an enthusiast and appreciate the machines, its another to take on the life style "just because".

But that is only my opinion. Have they done a lot of good? Yes. Has stardom tarnished their gem? Yes. The ones that lose in this is the OCC and PJD brands with real bikers.

Edited October 4, 2011 by IzzyEng4

[Guest ME4]

OCC and PJD create some great bikes.

OCC has bought technology into the process which I have no problem with.

I'm sure as PJD gets more success and money they will go with the technology too.

Some family can work together and some cannot for the very same reasons this family cannot.

The only difference, this family does it in front of cameras for all our entertainment.

And maybe its me, but I don't think anyone would have given Jr his own show when this one came to be.

His father is the one that got him into bike building.

That is just another example of Jrs ungrateful attitude in my opinion.

[IMAFF 2]

I met Sr. at the airport in Indianapolis after his appearance at FDIC. I talked to him while we went through airport security, he was very pleasant, no attitude at all. As for Jr. watch the episode when he fires Odie, talking back to the boss and being disrespectful was the reason. Pretty much the same reason Sr. was always yelling at him. Coming in late, two hour lunches, yelling at the boss, sounds like a spoiled kid to me.