Millerton: Cattle Truck into a Silo Hopper and Building: Route 22

[x635 4,066]

this was an obvious major trauma

It was? Were you on scene, or holding a beef (pun intened) with the Medic on scene? You give a lot of advice, based on speculation on the photos (which most people on here hate-especially since the IC was nice enough to come on here and gave us the rundown on what happened-read that). I'm sure the patient was treated appropriately, but it cannot be discussed in detail on here...little thing called HIPPA just to get started.

AGAIN-DONT SPECULATE ON PHOTOS-PEOPLE ON HERE HATE IT, AND THE IC EVEN GAVE A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE CALL!!! LET'S BE APPRECIATIVE OF THAT AND THE PHOTOS POSTED!

[FF31-126 3]

Thanks to 51-3, Mark and the Executive Directorfor these types of forums and discussions. It was a really unique scene and I thought it went well.

Edited August 22, 2011 by FF31-126

[markmets415 524]

And while a patient who is CAOx3 has the right to RMA, I would have spent a good amount of time informing the patient why this is a bad idea and that he very well could die. The patient should have also spoken to an med control MD on the phone. Instead, this medic spent his time treating a cow.

As I posted with the pictures I said I did not have a patient update and no one that responded to the scene gave any patient update, he did not RMA and was transported to the hospital, that's all I will say. I took the pictures of the cow long after he was transported so your statement regarding the medic working on the cow is baseless.

[markmets415 524]

Again as I have stated before, here is another thread that gets into the back and forth of arguing over pictures of an incident and the second guessing of the responders that were actually on the scene. I had stopped posting pictures just for this reason but thought this was an unique incident that was handled professionally by "everyone" that responded and I thought by sharing the incident in photos it would show that no matter how much we train and practice, something comes along that is a challenge and forces us to think outside the box. Now I wish I hadn't posted them and just shared them at the critique with the Battalion 4 tomorrow.

[markmets415 524]

My only suprise was Wasaaic's Rescue. I guess I've never seen it before. Given the talent in that department, I would have thought it to be much bigger. But seems like it's the right size to get close to an incident, especially something like this.

Seth does this mean you are asking for a photo shoot of 69-51 which I can tonight at our extrication drill?

[mfc2257 464]

Again as I have stated before, here is another thread that gets into the back and forth of arguing over pictures of an incident and the second guessing of the responders that were actually on the scene. I had stopped posting pictures just for this reason but thought this was an unique incident that was handled professionally by "everyone" that responded and I thought by sharing the incident in photos it would show that no matter how much we train and practice, something comes along that is a challenge and forces us to think outside the box. Now I wish I hadn't posted them and just shared them at the critique with the Battalion 4 tomorrow.

Totally get your frustration but the pics do most of us a lot more good than the trivial nonsense that goes back and forth with a relative few posters. Please don't stop posting photos. Lately the bickering is cleared up relatively quickly by the moderators, yourself inlcuded.

Edited August 22, 2011 by mfc2257

[x635 4,066]

Seth does this mean you are acting for a photo shoot of 69-51 which I can tonight at our extrication drill?

I would love to! The whole fleet, especially the BRAT! But it would be a heck of a drive, lol!

I had stopped posting pictures just for this reason but thought this was an unique incident that was handled professionally

Thank you for posting photos, Mark, and keep at it, please, I really appreciate everyone who posts incident photos. I'm just trying to make a point in a few threads that you can't make a judgment or constructive critique from photos posted here. I apologize, my intent wasn't to "bicker", rather illustrate the reasons why you really can't speculate on photos. I'm trying to tale a strong stance on this so more members will post incident photos and more IC's will feel comfortable coming on here to give us the facts and details.

This thread is excellent, we have great photos and information, and you got the ball rolling which, in turn, made this a positive and constructive thread and *some* members don't respect that, and it's ticking me off.

[markmets415 524]

I would love to! The whole fleet, especially the BRAT! But it would be a heck of a drive, lol!

Thank you for posting photos, Mark, and keep at it, please, I really appreciate everyone who posts incident photos. I'm just trying to make a point in a few threads that you can't make a judgment or constructive critique from photos posted here. I apologize, my intent wasn't to "bicker", rather illustrate the reasons why you really can't speculate on photos. I'm trying to tale a strong stance on this so more members will post incident photos and more IC's will feel comfortable coming on here to give us the facts and details.

This thread is excellent, we have great photos and information, and you got the ball rolling which, in turn, made this a positive and constructive thread and *some* members don't respect that, and it's ticking me off.

Thanks Seth and I will see what I can take tonight of 51 at our training.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.

This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.

All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

Let the arguments be done. Chief Shultz has come a long way in my book, and his word should be the final word on this incident. Thanks marketmets415 for the photos.

Edited August 22, 2011 by efdcapt115

[x635 4,066]

EMTBravo Anti-Negativity Initative:

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to PM me. Let's not take this excellent thread off course with bickering and keep it to PM.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Thank you Seth for posting about the anti-negativity campaign. I am going to refrain from commenting on what has transpired on this thread since the last time I was one to read it because Mark went against his better judgment to post these pictures on here so we could talk about a unique scenario (thanks Mark), and someone had to mount the QB chair this fine Monday to pick apart PT issues. The Medics and EMS personnel on scene have enough crust on their EMS gear for me to trust whatever treatment they executed, and that is the bottom line. The pictures give no one enough basis for any claims otherwise.

I want to again thank those who were there or involved in any way shape or form, a late thanks to the Medivac crew who was on standby for a portion of the call. And a big thank you to those who have contributed positively and constructively to this thread.

Edited August 23, 2011 by FiftyOnePride

[xfirefighter484x 234]

No more discussion of the incident itself will take place here in this thread. This thread if for discussing the PICTURES taken. If people feel so inclined to discuss the incident itself, the operations, what was done, or not done, then they can take the initiative to start a discussion thread in the Dutchess County Local Forum!

Any other critiques posted in this thread will be deleted by the Staff.

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE PICTURES MARK!!! Definitely nice to see what was going on, on the other side of the radio, and definitely NOT what any of us were thinking/expecting!

[Atv300 69]

Thank you to mark for the pics and to the moderators for ending the issue.

[firemoose827 324]

Chief- thank you for coming on here on giving us insight on the incident. Much appreciated, and I wish more Chiefs were like you in embracing the sharing of information.

Second, Mark, nice shots!

My only suprise was Wasaaic's Rescue. I guess I've never seen it before. Given the talent in that department, I would have thought it to be much bigger. But seems like it's the right size to get close to an incident, especially something like this.

Seth, dont you know its not the SIZE of the rescue, its how you use it...

Again as I have stated before, here is another thread that gets into the back and forth of arguing over pictures of an incident and the second guessing of the responders that were actually on the scene. I had stopped posting pictures just for this reason but thought this was an unique incident that was handled professionally by "everyone" that responded and I thought by sharing the incident in photos it would show that no matter how much we train and practice, something comes along that is a challenge and forces us to think outside the box. Now I wish I hadn't posted them and just shared them at the critique with the Battalion 4 tomorrow.

Mark, please do not let any of these guys deter you from posting pics any more, you take good ones and all of the pics on this site are a good learning tool, especially when the chiefs involved post here and share their insight on the incident and what was going through their minds. This was a challenging scene, and it was mitigated safely and quickly with no serious injury or worse, to me thats a good day! Keep posting pics and dont let them stop you, the mods on this site will do their jobs and we will support both you and the mods.

Great Job.

[x129K 1,393]

I really dont know why so many are getting worked up over this...

Three pages and not a single bash or criticism of the work done by the several fire departments on scene. A unique challenge met head on resulting in a positive outcome. Really only one voice questioning anything..which has to be a record! LOL

Everything from scene management, adequate manpower, a surplus of tools and equipment, etc..everything spot on. This was an incident that we all can learn from, thanks in part to Mark's pics and 2ndAC Schultz' narrative..I know that I learned something from this thread.

I can also see the the validity of the questioning of the treatment...I agree with ALS treatment on this patient, but that is one of the troubles with commercial EMS...you never know who you're gonna get. Yes, it all worked out in the end, but I beleive an aggressive medic would have opted to treat differently...I know I would.

Again - awesome job Battalion 4 guys....seriously STRONG WORK...Dont let the few negative voices keep you from sharing your information, pictures, and opinions.

[kevin1496 1]

great job to all involved

[milan fire dept probie 2]

Nice shots....very tricky extercation....one not seen by most people in there lifetime in the fire service....I do have one question....I was wondering how much cribbing and it looks like rescue strut we're needed to deem the structure safe for extercation....I know you probably can't put an actual number on it but I'm curious how you did stabilize both vehicle, trailer, and silo? I can see some of it but for.training.purposes I wondering how much equipment off each rescue was used

[EMTDelta 22]

Wow, I sure have seen some tricky technical rescues, but this is one ya don't see every day!!!

Glad to hear it was a successful rescue, and hopefully everyone can take a little away from this! The pictures give a good perspective of applied techniques used for a variety of other rescues, and sometimes you just have to go back to the basics.

Attend to patient, stabilize, extricate.

Of course there are always many variables, but in essence, sometimes just going back to the basics is what is needed the most!

Thank you markmets415 for sharing, definitely not something you see every day, well, maybe with the exception of the REAL rural areas, but even then, lol!

[dartnk45 11]

mark in one of the Photos did you guys end up using pallets for cribbing at the front of the truck? great job by all, I like that the Medics also were able to help the cow it defently a different kind of PT. great job by all

Tom

[markmets415 524]

Wow, I sure have seen some tricky technical rescues, but this is one ya don't see every day!!!

Glad to hear it was a successful rescue, and hopefully everyone can take a little away from this! The pictures give a good perspective of applied techniques used for a variety of other rescues, and sometimes you just have to go back to the basics.

Attend to patient, stabilize, extricate.

Of course there are always many variables, but in essence, sometimes just going back to the basics is what is needed the most!

Thank you markmets415 for sharing, definitely not something you see every day, well, maybe with the exception of the REAL rural areas, but even then, lol!

mark in one of the Photos did you guys end up using pallets for cribbing at the front of the truck? great job by all, I like that the Medics also were able to help the cow it defently a different kind of PT. great job by all

Tom

Both need to be answered by FiftyOnePride (51-3), I had gotten there pretty much after all of the stabilization was completed with the exception of one of the struts.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Nice shots....very tricky extercation....one not seen by most people in there lifetime in the fire service....I do have one question....I was wondering how much cribbing and it looks like rescue strut we're needed to deem the structure safe for extercation....I know you probably can't put an actual number on it but I'm curious how you did stabilize both vehicle, trailer, and silo? I can see some of it but for.training.purposes I wondering how much equipment off each rescue was used

We stripped all struts, air bags, and cribbing from the rescues of Millerton, Amenia, Wassaic, and Stanford. We had Millbrook en route but realized we were in a good point before they arrived.

mark in one of the Photos did you guys end up using pallets for cribbing at the front of the truck? great job by all, I like that the Medics also were able to help the cow it defently a different kind of PT. great job by all

Tom

Pallets were a small part of the cribbing at first due to the lack of anything else. They did wind up playing a small roll however.

Edited August 25, 2011 by FiftyOnePride

[firedude 985]

I will say... Great Photos!

Edited August 25, 2011 by xfirefighter484x