"Doubtful Will Hold" ?

[x129K 1,393]

I understand the term "doubtful will hold", I mean, I get the general gist of it...I think...but I just dont understand it I guess...especially in regards to the IA from the truck through the wall in NYC today..

I mean, if you have a "doubtful will hold" incident, shouldnt you be calling in more "stuff"?

Maybe someone here can shed the light on this term...is it merely a holdover from days gone by? (I am a big fan of holdovers of tradition FYI).

I am not condemning it, as I am ALL ABOUT "big city verbage"...LOL..I have even been reprimanded years ago for calling an "accident with extrication required" a "pin job"...

Looking forward to hearing some info...K

[efd184 59]

here is another good one "read direct" what the heck?????? or "K" ????? please shed light on those!

[x129K 1,393]

I've used "read direct" a ton back in my Empress days...and "K"..well, I MAY have used that a bunch too...

It was actually VERY HARD to break the K habit once I got hired in Poughkeepsie...for some reason, K is frowned upon VERY HEAVILY here in Dutchess. I still manage to slip one out when the "big one" hits...

Edited August 17, 2011 by x129K

[sfrd18 360]

For those who don't know, "K" goes way, way back into FDNY's history and means that a radio transmittion has been completed or has ended, sort of like the "stop" between phrases in a telegraph message, for example:

"Ladder 1-0 to Manhattan..."

"Ladder 1-0, K."

"Ladder 1-0 is 10-84, K."

"Doubtful Will Hold", or DWH, means that companies o/s are in the process of putting water on a fire and are attacking it, but the fire has not been knocked down yet, and whatever's burning is still burning. From there, the incident commander may or may not call in additional resources.

"Probably Will Hold", or PWH, means that the fire is most likely knocked down, and companies may be hitting hot spots, or dousing the last lick of flame, but the incident commander is holding up on the knock down announcement. In other words, PWH means that the fire will be probably knocked down

soon.

Here's a great page from NYCFire.net Forums site that gives a run down of some of FDNY's terminology and some FAQ's:

http://nycfire.net/forums/index.php/topic,1273.0.html

Also, here's one for Chicago(Bottom of the Page):

http://www.metrochicagofire.com/lingo.htm

[NJMedic 96]

"Read Direct" is used when a mobile unit calls the dispatcher to relay a message for another unit. Rather then have the dispatcher repeat the message the intended unit will simplt say "Read Direct" if the already heard the message Some agencies do not allow unit to unit communications. FDNY might be such an agency because you almost never hear unit to unit communications on the dispatch frequencies.

[Guest Firediver]

Doubtful will hold you "May" have to call more apparatus and "K" was sent at the end of a transmission (telegraph days) to indicate speaker was done waiting for you to reply or at least this is what I have been going with.

I see I need to speed up my typing. Belay my last!

Edited August 17, 2011 by Firediver

[towerladder2 22]

As an FDNY dispatcher, "K", is used after a transmission when you are finished with your transmission and requiring a response from the unit you are speaking to.... When you are not requiring a response, "K" is not used....

The above explanations for doubtful will hold and probably will hold are correct...

[IzzyEng4 427]

"K" goes back to the invention of Morse Code by Samuel Morse. When you type "K" ( -.- [dah-dit-dah]for American Morse code, .-.[dit-dah-dit] for International) at the end of a sentence in code, it is being used as a "prosign". "K" in code means "go" or "over" - another station is invited to reply, and literally "oK standing by" for intensive purposes. It is still used by code operators today when communicating with other stations. "K" is the short version of "GA" (Go Ahead) and technically when you are specifically communicating with another station waiting for their reply back, you are supposed to use "KN" but again "K" is shorter. When you end a transmission between two stations you would type "SK" (Silent Key).

Just like sfrd18 anf towerladder2 stated, its a carryover from the old telegraph box days. Someone would stand at the box and inside there is a telegraph key (pretty much all Gamewells have them). Since the boxes went back to a CO and not directly to the firehouses, the circuit could be closed off so that the CO operator and the officer / aide could communicate with each other over the FD lines. Imagine having to learn Mores code and the FD codes for alarms for your duties! Each department was different with the old signals and telegraphs.

[transmitthebox 2]

I think you are mistaking "read direct" for "REDIRECT". meaning when a company is responding on a call the dispatcher needs them to stop responding to that call and respond directly to another call at another location. For example....Manhattan to engine 21 redirect to phone alarm box 9999 240 east 31st and 2nd ave for a fire 1st floor. 21 would proceed directly to the new call instead of thier original one.

[JBE 328]

As an FDNY dispatcher, "K", is used after a transmission when you are finished with your transmission and requiring a response from the unit you are speaking to.... When you are not requiring a response, "K" is not used....

The above explanations for doubtful will hold and probably will hold are correct...

You have learned well, Padawan. El Presidente will be proud.

As TTB said, the term Read Direct, and Re-Direct, are two different things. Read Direct, is basically, "Yeah, I heard ya!!!"

My memory is failing me a little, but, the words Re-Assigned and Re-Directed are actually two different things. I forgot what the difference was though.

Side note, I used to love saying to units on the air, "Manhattan to Engine Three-Seven, you are being RE DIE RECTED!!! Take in a Phone Alarm, Box 1477, West One-Two-Five Street and Lenox Avenue for a fire in a store, Engine Three-Seven, Acknowledge, K!!!!

[JohnnyOV 2]

You have learned well, Padawan. El Presidente will be proud.

As TTB said, the term Read Direct, and Re-Direct, are two different things. Read Direct, is basically, "Yeah, I heard ya!!!"

My memory is failing me a little, but, the words Re-Assigned and Re-Directed are actually two different things. I forgot what the difference was though.

Side note, I used to love saying to units on the air, "Manhattan to Engine Three-Seven, you are being RE DIE RECTED!!! Take in a Phone Alarm, Box 1477, West One-Two-Five Street and Lenox Avenue for a fire in a store, Engine Three-Seven, Acknowledge, K!!!!

"Car 1 to dispatch, have Engine 1 go back in service"

"Dispatch to Engine 1, you copy?"

"Engine 1 copies, Read Direct on the Re-direct"

[helicopper 1,050]

READ direct and RE direct are definitely two different things.

READ direct (as previously noted) saves the dispatcher from having to repeat a message already transmitted by another unit because you "read direct". That is unless your dispatch agency policies require tying up the air with repetitive messages even when they're heard and acknowledged.

If you're REdirected, you're being sent somewhere else.